40k 9th edition, : App released page 413

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**Gadzilla666**

Sasori wrote:
Points have been completely adjusted across the entire game.

Major change, they said on average they have gone up.

That's definitely a change of tact. Hopefully they will be able to show some more granularity between different units. You can only go so low of course.

If they raise the points on the hellforged super heavys I may have an aneurism though.

**tneva82**

Sasori wrote:
Points have been completely adjusted across the entire game.

Major change, they said on average they have gone up.

Let's just hope plavers don't increase default game size like in 8thed start

**Aaranis**

What else did they say in the interview about Matched Play ? Are they going to release a special PDF with all the point changes ? I'm wondering if the point costs in Engine War are going to stay the same or if they're already obsolete.

EDIT: New article on the WHC: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/03/warhammer-40000-matched-play-points-and-an-appgw-homepage-post-1/?fbclid=IwAR1-C2CU47R4nRcCVpZYUVGy_dhr99dj6kzmqlqmGwRtv-JiXwcpMH33Xso I'm reading it right now !

**Dudeface**

addnid wrote:
I think GW and many here have this idea that "narrative players" and "casuals" and whatever (I considered myself as such from 4th to 6th ed, then started competing a bit during 7th) players are ok with wonky balance, and far from perfect mission rules, and such, unlike comp players.
Stuff like missions where one side is sure to win, and whatever other bad idea GW or a someone with weird ideas for a home made mission (I produced my fair share of dodgy missions back in the day, especially during 5th ed haha hah).

I think that is total bull, all aplyers want good, sound stuff and that is why all GW attempts ti cater specifically to that socalled "crowd" fail miserably,
every
single
time

This crusade stuff doesn't seem tight at all. 100 year old space marines, in the fluff, don't become better shooters after one or two battles, do they ? What works for necromunda gangers doesn't for Necrons, eldar, etc. Orks ok, they get bigget, but tyranids? I mean the whole concept is just so "not 40k" that it feels very strange they actually went through with this.

This Crusade stuff should reallty be called "kids 40k" or something, because it just doesn't really fit in the fluff at all. I heard it was an AoS port, well... I dunno, hopefully the rest of this weeks' previews will just make everyonbe forget about Crusade until relase, then those who don't mind the "not 40k aspect" of Crusade can just have their fun for a few games (by 2021 Crusade will have gone, i don't think they will keep adding Crusade stuff in 2021 codexes, but that is just my opinion)

How does it not fit in the fluff? Do soldiers not get more experienced with every battle they survive? Do injuries not give people long lasting impairments?

How about the hive mind realises a certain pack of nids are becoming very successful at a specific tasks so start to give them specific mutations (veteran upgrades). This is all very 40k and requires next to no imagination how it fits into the narrative of the setting.

**Sasori**

tneva82 wrote:
Sasori wrote:
Points have been completely adjusted across the entire game.

Major change, they said on average they have gone up.

Let's just hope plavers don't increase default game size like in 8thed start

I think the new Mission types are supposed to keep that in check.

**Dudeface**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Sasori wrote:
Points have been completely adjusted across the entire game.

Major change, they said on average they have gone up.

That's definitely a change of tact. Hopefully they will be able to show some more granularity between different units. You can only go so low of course.

If they raise the points on the hellforged super heavys I may have an aneurism though.

Genuinely so happy about this, makes new armies and expanding existing more palatable, stops games taking so long. Smiles for miles. 6 cp at 1k is harsh however.

**Latro_**

wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected

Interesting they have basically gone semi ITC with the missions, e.g. you pic objs

**lord_blackfang**

The lack of a 1500 pt tier is undoubtedly a conscious effort to dissuade sub-2k games.

**tneva82**

Hopefully they have improved them somehow so scenarios won'' be marine gunline favouring like itc

**Asmodai**

Aaranis wrote:
What else did they say in the interview about Matched Play ? Are they going to release a special PDF with all the point changes ? I'm wondering if the point costs in Engine War are going to stay the same or if they're already obsolete.

EDIT: New article on the WHC: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/03/warhammer-40000-matched-play-points-and-an-appgw-homepage-post-1/?fbclid=IwAR1-C2CU47R4nRcCVpZYUVGy_dhr99dj6kzmqlqmGwRtv-JiXwcpMH33Xso I'm reading it right now !

Yes - there will be a PDF will all the points changes. They'll also be visible in the app with the army builder on pre-order day.

No, Engine War points are for 8th edition. They have no influence on 9th ed. points since it's a different game that has different considerations for unit pricing.

**Oaka**

The idea of having units forfeit their turn to perform a secondary objective action like raising a banner, if implemented well, could be the reason to take Troops choices.

**Platuan4th**

Latro_ wrote:wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected[/img]

No kidding. My usual Dark Eldar build just lost like 8CP, possibly more depending on how additional Deatchments work.

tneva82 wrote:Hopefully they have improved them somehow so scenarios won'' be marine gunline favouring like itc

Doesn't sound like it if they're wanting you to select them based on your army's "narrative".

**Corrode**

addnid wrote:
I think GW and many here have this idea that "narrative players" and "casuals" and whatever (I considered myself as such from 4th to 6th ed, then started competing a bit during 7th) players are ok with wonky balance, and far from perfect mission rules, and such, unlike comp players.
Stuff like missions where one side is sure to win, and whatever other bad idea GW or a someone with weird ideas for a home made mission (I produced my fair share of dodgy missions back in the day, especially during 5th ed haha hah).

I think that is total bull, all aplyers want good, sound stuff and that is why all GW attempts ti cater specifically to that socalled "crowd" fail miserably,
every
single
time

This crusade stuff doesn't seem tight at all. 100 year old space marines, in the fluff, don't become better shooters after one or two battles, do they ? What works for necromunda gangers doesn't for Necrons, eldar, etc. Orks ok, they get bigget, but tyranids? I mean the whole concept is just so "not 40k" that it feels very strange they actually went through with this.

This Crusade stuff should reallty be called "kids 40k" or something, because it just doesn't really fit in the fluff at all. I heard it was an AoS port, well... I dunno, hopefully the rest of this weeks' previews will just make everyonbe forget about Crusade until relase, then those who don't mind the "not 40k aspect" of Crusade can just have their fun for a few games (by 2021 Crusade will have gone, i don't think they will keep adding Crusade stuff in 2021 codexes, but that is just my opinion)

Genuinely one of the worst posts about 9th ed I've seen, and there's been a lot, congratulations.

**CthuluIsSpy**

lord_blackfang wrote:
The lack of a 1500 pt tier is undoubtedly a conscious effort to dissuade sub-2k games.

Yeah that is weird how its not linear.
It should be going up in increments of 500, but it starts jumping by 1000 past the 500 point tier.
I guess 1500 points gives you 6CP then, instead of 9? I hope this doesn't mean that you technically aren't allowed to play games from 1001-1999 points, which would just be weird design.

Traditionally, your models could either stand near objectives or shoot/punch. No longer! Now you can perform rituals, plant homing beacons, raise banners on key objectives and more. This creates dynamic moments where you may need to decide between firing at the enemy or bravely accomplishing a mission.

I don't understand this. I can not recall at any point, since I began playing in 4th ed, where you had to choose between attacking or holding an objective. Usually you just plopped some units down on the objective and shoot at anything that came close.

**Aaranis**

Really liking these changes so far. Especially the secondary objectives thing and the actions that unit can do while controlling, would be a breath of fresh air if they don't screw it up with obvious "best choices".

**Gadzilla666**

Latro_ wrote:
wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected

Interesting they have basically gone semi ITC with the missions, e.g. you pic objs

That's less than a double battalion. If there's no way to get more cp csm are going to be hurting.

Yeah they're borrowing from ITC for the missions. Somewhere Ishuga is probably not happy. (Not so sure if I am).

**JNAProductions**

Corrode wrote:
addnid wrote:
I think GW and many here have this idea that "narrative players" and "casuals" and whatever (I considered myself as such from 4th to 6th ed, then started competing a bit during 7th) players are ok with wonky balance, and far from perfect mission rules, and such, unlike comp players.
Stuff like missions where one side is sure to win, and whatever other bad idea GW or a someone with weird ideas for a home made mission (I produced my fair share of dodgy missions back in the day, especially during 5th ed haha hah).

I think that is total bull, all aplyers want good, sound stuff and that is why all GW attempts ti cater specifically to that socalled "crowd" fail miserably,
every
single
time

This crusade stuff doesn't seem tight at all. 100 year old space marines, in the fluff, don't become better shooters after one or two battles, do they ? What works for necromunda gangers doesn't for Necrons, eldar, etc. Orks ok, they get bigget, but tyranids? I mean the whole concept is just so "not 40k" that it feels very strange they actually went through with this.

This Crusade stuff should reallty be called "kids 40k" or something, because it just doesn't really fit in the fluff at all. I heard it was an AoS port, well... I dunno, hopefully the rest of this weeks' previews will just make everyonbe forget about Crusade until relase, then those who don't mind the "not 40k aspect" of Crusade can just have their fun for a few games (by 2021 Crusade will have gone, i don't think they will keep adding Crusade stuff in 2021 codexes, but that is just my opinion)

Genuinely one of the worst posts about 9th ed I've seen, and there's been a lot, congratulations.

Why? Are you a narrative player who wants one-sided stomps, and the measurements (be they PL or Points) provided to be inaccurate?

I can see that the later part of the post might be grating, but the first bit? Seems pretty spot on.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Platuan4th wrote:
Latro_ wrote:wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected[/img]

No kidding. My usual Dark Eldar build just lost like 8CP, possibly more depending on how additional Deatchments work.

tneva82 wrote:Hopefully they have improved them somehow so scenarios won'' be marine gunline favouring like itc

Doesn't sound like it if they're wanting you to select them based on your army's "narrative".

They might give you extra CP still for Battleforged and perhaps a bonus if you went Brigade? I dunno but I was doing Marine Brigade in the first place so I have the same amount of CP.

**Latro_**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Latro_ wrote:
wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected

Interesting they have basically gone semi ITC with the missions, e.g. you pic objs

That's less than a double battalion. If there's no way to get more cp csm are going to be hurting.

Yeah they're borrowing from ITC for the missions. Somewhere Ishuga is probably not happy. (Not so sure if I am).

hurting even worse with SIX POINT CULTISTS wooot! - perhaps everything is getting a hike

Actually, perhaps with the CP thing 3K is going to be the new 2K because 20pt incessors is about the same % increase

**lord_blackfang**

I'm betting within a year the new tourney standard will be above 2000 pts and eventually the standard model count will be larger than now despite points going up slightly.

**the_scotsman**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
Latro_ wrote:wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected[/img]

No kidding. My usual Dark Eldar build just lost like 8CP, possibly more depending on how additional Deatchments work.

tneva82 wrote:Hopefully they have improved them somehow so scenarios won'' be marine gunline favouring like itc

Doesn't sound like it if they're wanting you to select them based on your army's "narrative".

They might give you extra CP still for Battleforged and perhaps a bonus if you went Brigade? I dunno but I was doing Marine Brigade in the first place so I have the same amount of CP.

We know you gain command points in the command phase. Presumably, you will have fewer at the start of the game because each turn you will gain some, which is a very good thing IMO. Reduce the number of "big CP wombo combos" increase the number of CPs tthat get used on later turns of the game.

**Matrindur**

Don't forget that we will be getting new cp every round so of course the starting cp is going to be less than before

**xttz**

Latro_ wrote:
wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected

Interesting they have basically gone semi ITC with the missions, e.g. you pic objs

Hopefully this means we'll see ITC and ETC playing the same rules at last, so balance decisions GW makes affect both equally rather than being skewed by one.

Corrode wrote:

Genuinely one of the worst posts about 9th ed I've seen, and there's been a lot, congratulations.

For sure. Someone needs to sit down with a copy of Rogue Trader and see where 40k came from originally.

**Ail-Shan**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Traditionally, your models could either stand near objectives or shoot/punch. No longer! Now you can perform rituals, plant homing beacons, raise banners on key objectives and more. This creates dynamic moments where you may need to decide between firing at the enemy or bravely accomplishing a mission.

I don't understand this. I can not recall at any point, since I began playing in 4th ed, where you had to choose between attacking or holding an objective. Usually you just plopped some units down on the objective and shoot at anything that came close.

Probably more saying giving more things like the turrets Tau can take for firewarrior squads: more types of actions to take other than move, shoot and fight.

**Eldarsif**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Latro_ wrote:
wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected

Interesting they have basically gone semi ITC with the missions, e.g. you pic objs

That's less than a double battalion. If there's no way to get more cp csm are going to be hurting.

They mentioned in another stream/article that you generate CP ingame as well. My bet is that you get 2 CP per turn, one for being in the game and 1 for your warlord like it is in KT. This way a normal game has about 22 CP over the game and possibly incentivizes killling enemy warlords.

**JNAProductions**

Yeah. I'm not thrilled at the previewed points.

Intercessors go up less than 20%.
Cultists go up 50%.

**Sasori**

There may be other ways to generate Command points, but everyone having the starting CP seems great.

We'll also probably generate one each turn in the Command phase.

I don't see tournaments going above 2k points. I think the new missions and everything encourage 2k points. I also hope the mew missions mean an end to the all the other rules formats and they just follow the GW lead.

**Nightlord1987**

.... or maybe they didnt expect Stratagems to become 90% of list building?

I've always felt like stratagems, these dynamic cinematic, tide turning, pivotal gaming "action scenes" were better suited for Narrative play.

I like this limited CP thing. Kinda shows me they never intended 20+ cp builds, but gamers gonna game the system.

**Latro_**

JNAProductions wrote:
Yeah. I'm not thrilled at the previewed points.

Intercessors go up less than 20%.
Cultists go up 50%.

why so sad, not like tanks can shoot them in combat now and blasts will likely get full shots. They are gonna be worth that 50% increase man

XD oh lawd.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Latro_ wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
Latro_ wrote:
wow CP at 2k a lot lower than expected

Interesting they have basically gone semi ITC with the missions, e.g. you pic objs

That's less than a double battalion. If there's no way to get more cp csm are going to be hurting.

Yeah they're borrowing from ITC for the missions. Somewhere Ishuga is probably not happy. (Not so sure if I am).

hurting even worse with SIX POINT CULTISTS wooot! - perhaps everything is getting a hike

Actually, perhaps with the CP thing 3K is going to be the new 2K because 20pt incessors is about the same % increase

Until they do more point reveals, 6 point Cultists is pretty absurd.