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gungo wrote:
A mission packet I’ve seen no one use.
Maybe with the focus on Crusade missions this edition it might have a use.
I also expect a reduced yearly subscription like they do for white dwarf. (25% off)

Well you are in america cursed with inferior itc

gungo wrote:

All you lose is the 9th codex Hyperlinks to the datasheets which you can’t expect to get for free regardless
You still have the list builder, the updated points and any new units in the list builder plus all the 9th core rules.
I also expect a much cheaper yearly subscription option.

Wait.
If we sub but don't buy the 'dex, we can still build updated armies for this specific codex ?

App looks cool. I will consider subscribing, but the free features will be convenient even if I do not.

I think you can only army build if you sub. Unlocking the codex basically i would presume unlocks the rules content from that codex in the app. SO if you wanna look up how Reanimation Protocols works, or view the datasheet for your skorpekh Destroyers you can do. If you want to build an army, check its battle forged and legal - get a sub seems to be what the article is saying.

Still, I'm all for the sub if the app provides me with better usability and ease of use than Battle Scribe along with a complete and up to date (including FAQ/Errata changes) versions of the rules. The former i guess we will have to wait and see once the app is out but the latter is confirmed in the article as being part of their plans for the app so, I'm in.

dhallnet wrote:

gungo wrote:

All you lose is the 9th codex Hyperlinks to the datasheets which you can’t expect to get for free regardless
You still have the list builder, the updated points and any new units in the list builder plus all the 9th core rules.
I also expect a much cheaper yearly subscription option.

Wait.
If we sub but don't buy the 'dex, we can still build updated armies for this specific codex ?

there is no army builder yet, so you can not

as far as we know for now, it will be possible to build the lists but no access to the Datasheets and rules (we don't know if matched play points are there or only powerlevel without the Codex)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:

And judges can sanction lawyers and fine plaintiffs for filing frivolous lawsuits exactly so things like this don't happen.

none has done that with GW yet

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Grrr is the correct response. I was hoping for points this week. I want to write some lists. Another disappointment. And that price converts to $5 a month. Why is the 40k app more expensive than the AoS app besides "just because we can"?

When I was tooling around with building a list building app that validates the lists the project was going to be really complex. 40K list building is no joke and I imagine the cost to get it built was quite high. The AoS builder is super rudimentary.

So what do you expect this list builder to do for $5 a month that battlescribe doesn't already do? Honest question.

Validated lists. Battlescribe can create incorrect lists. I can foresee tournaments like LVO saying, "we only accept lists through the GW app". It lifts the burden from them to do due diligence on lists.

It will also create more work when the app allows you to make Battle Forged Certified Armies that don't follow the rules in the Codex - which will create a lot of complaints from players whichever way the TO rules on the conflict.

 kodos wrote:
there is no army builder yet, so you can not

And the app is not out either. So yeah, obviously.

So let me know if I have this straight;

1) Right now I buy a printed codex for $40 USD ($30 for SM supplements)
2) Right now if I want a digital version, its $34.99 for ePub or $37.99 enhanced

So to have both print and digital it’s $75 – $78 for a typical codex, of which there are 23? (Excluding the 6 SM supplements).

If I want an online/automated list builder, its BattleScribe for $1.49 / yr. per*
*I know it can be used for free, but they do ask for support, which I myself currently do pay for the supporter pass for both PC and iOS.

With the Warhammer 40K app

1) Digital Version of codex comes with printed version. Price not known, but I think it is safe to assume that the price of the 9th edition codices will be higher than $40, but lower than the combined $75-$78 above. – Conclusion is this will be better value than currently IF you were buying both print and digital versions. However, it is an inferior value if you were buying only one or the other.

For subscriber version since USD price not mentioned, let’s just guess $6 / month since GW always inflates the current exchange rate.

2) This is harder to compare apples to apples as it gives more than just a list builder. It provides digital versions of all 8th ed. codices, a ~$950 USD value if purchased today which will likely take more than 30 months before all are updated again assuming one codex a month vs. $180 total for the app during that same time frame – Conclusion is this is outstanding value assuming you don’t already have say more than 27 8th edition codices or supplements already. Value declines significantly if you had no interest in having say more than 5 8th edition codices or already own all the 8th edition codices you want in whatever is your preferred format.

3) If only interested in the list building feature, no contest in a straight price to price comparison with BattleScribe. But we know that BattleScribe is not perfect and caveat emptor, and is dependent on the un-paid and very committed community members who try their best to keep the data files updated. There is also typically a lag between codex release and BattleScribe being updated. One good thing about Battescribe has always been the relative ease with which lists could be shared or published across multiple media. The value that I assume the GW app will offer is, a) It’s official (don't discount this aspect), b) It will be updated the same day a codex is released, c) It will have less errors (FAQ/Errata history of GW notwithstanding), d) will hopefully be more user and mobile firendly and aligned visually with the force org system and e) have support for sharing/publishing your list. – Conclusion from a price only standpoint, this is an inferior value to what is currently available and not a good enough reason alone to subscribe to the app, however final assessment of value is highly dependent on the actual finished GW product

Obviously you don’t subscribe based on what if’s and vague promises of future improvements, but my guess of features on the short list to be added to app;

1) Match scorer
2) Dice app
3) Open War cards / Mission generator
4) Crusade journal
5) Campaign management
6) Support for other 40K games, e.g. Kill Team, Adeptus Titanicus, Aeronautica Imperialis, and may be even Necromunda?

I am looking forward to the app, and just based on the value of the digital versions of 8th edition codices will likely subscribe from day 1 and probably through whatever point that I am no longer referring to 8th edition codices are an ongoing basis.

dhallnet wrote:

 kodos wrote:
there is no army builder yet, so you can not

And the app is not out either, gotcha.

you have seen that the list building feature is marked with "coming soon", so don't expect that one to be there at release date but added later

 Lord of Deeds wrote:


2) Dice app

I would love a sanctioned dice app.

 kodos wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

And judges can sanction lawyers and fine plaintiffs for filing frivolous lawsuits exactly so things like this don't happen.

none has done that with GW yet

None that we know of anyway, of course it could be a different matter in the UK.

I'm having a hard time seeing any reason why I'd pay for this app. I will probably use the free version though so that I don't have to carry around a 300 page hard back book for 25 pages of rules.

 Tyran wrote:

 Sasori wrote:


There are a few key differences here.

GW doesn't actually need to win or even be in the right to succeed. The threat of a C&D and a lawsuit is often enough from larger companies to get what they want.

Even if they are 100% right, companies still have to fight it in court. This is (Sadly) a pretty common tactic.

It doesn't matter, Battlescribe cannot even stop using 40k rules because Battlescribe is only a tool. At most GW could go after the repositories, but that would only push the data further underground.

If GW cannot even stop the community from pirating their codexes, they have no hope in stopping Battlescribe.

I think you are viewing this as a zero sum game, which it's not. GW doesn't have to stamp out everything, it just has to make it so that the alternatives to the app are either inconvenient enough or worse enough so that it drives more people to the app.

 ziggurattt wrote:

 Lord of Deeds wrote:


2) Dice app

I would love a sanctioned dice app.

There is one currently - just iOS only though so that people don't crack an android one and get skewed rolls.

The only reason i will change from BS to this new app, and pay for it, is if it allows you to build army lists for armies you do not have a codex for.
If you can only build an Ultramarines list if you have purchased the Space Marine Codex and the Ultramarine Supplement, for example, then i just won't use it.

I'd have much preferred this app to allow "in-app" codex purchases or have a 2nd tier of subscription which includes all the codex rules than have to buy the codex and then pay for the app afterwards.

Seems like the Primaris Lieutenants weren't hit with that across the board points hike huh?

 Sasori wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Sasori wrote:


There are a few key differences here.

GW doesn't actually need to win or even be in the right to succeed. The threat of a C&D and a lawsuit is often enough from larger companies to get what they want.

Even if they are 100% right, companies still have to fight it in court. This is (Sadly) a pretty common tactic.

It doesn't matter, Battlescribe cannot even stop using 40k rules because Battlescribe is only a tool. At most GW could go after the repositories, but that would only push the data further underground.

If GW cannot even stop the community from pirating their codexes, they have no hope in stopping Battlescribe.

I think you are viewing this as a zero sum game, which it's not. GW doesn't have to stamp out everything, it just has to make it so that the alternatives to the app are either inconvenient enough or worse enough so that it drives more people to the app.

And they would fail. The makers of the data files used for the 40k army builder in Battlescribe are anonymous, meaning GW would have to invest significant resources to track them down (and GW doesn't have infinite resources). And even then anyone else can make the same files, it isn't hard.

And they have no legal recourse to go after Battlescribe itself as it would be the same as trying to sue Microsoft because you can make an army builder on Excel. BTW there are army builders on Excel, also not particularly hard to make.

But sure if GW wants to burn money chasing ghosts they are free to do so.

what is this "My Warhammer" account that you need?

£3.99/month should translate to...$5USD/month?

That's not going to be a big seller in the USA, I don't think.

And that's IF GW actually uses 'real world' conversion rates and not their own out of whack usual multiplier.

 Tyran wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Sasori wrote:


There are a few key differences here.

GW doesn't actually need to win or even be in the right to succeed. The threat of a C&D and a lawsuit is often enough from larger companies to get what they want.

Even if they are 100% right, companies still have to fight it in court. This is (Sadly) a pretty common tactic.

It doesn't matter, Battlescribe cannot even stop using 40k rules because Battlescribe is only a tool. At most GW could go after the repositories, but that would only push the data further underground.

If GW cannot even stop the community from pirating their codexes, they have no hope in stopping Battlescribe.

I think you are viewing this as a zero sum game, which it's not. GW doesn't have to stamp out everything, it just has to make it so that the alternatives to the app are either inconvenient enough or worse enough so that it drives more people to the app.

And they would fail. The makers of the data files used for the 40k army builder in Battlescribe are anonymous, meaning GW would have to invest significant resources to track them down (and GW doesn't have infinite resources). And even then anyone else can make the same files, it isn't hard.

And they have no legal recourse to go after Battlescribe itself as it would be the same as trying to sue Microsoft because you can make an army builder on Excel. BTW there are army builders on Excel, also not particularly hard to make.

But sure if GW wants to burn money chasing ghosts they are free to do so.

Even if GW has no legal recourse to go after Battlescribe, they can still do so. It still requires Battlescribe to get representation for their case, and there are a lot of costs for that. Maybe they can recoup those later, maybe not. Going after Microsoft, and going after some tiny company are completely different kinds of animals.

There is a very good chance that if GW sent battlescribe a C&D, they would just fold, even if Battlescribe are legally in the right. The cost and resources to fight something like this are a major ask for a few indie developers.

What a missed launch, IMO.

As the app will provide all the 8th edition codecies with the paid subscription, I imagine we may see an aggressive codex release schedule to prompt folks to buy the new codex in order to ensure all their rules remains up to date. If there are only a few codexes released per years, that is a lot of material that would be usable via subscription. I own only a few 8th edition codecies, so the subscription giving me access total the codecies is quite tempting.

 Alpharius wrote:
£3.99/month should translate to...$5USD/month?

4£ is ~ 5€ so should be 6 USD

Why would they go after Battlescribe now? They've never cared about AoS being on there and Azyr's been out donkey's.

App is 100% DoA.

Too expensive.
Value lessens over time.

I see absolutely no meaningful benefit to this app.

 lare2 wrote:
Why would they go after Battlescribe now? They've never cared about AoS being on there and Azyr's been out donkey's.

It's quite possible they won't. Though the key difference is that the AoS rules for units and such are available for free, and GW even provides a free list builder on their website.

40k however, has still kept nearly everything locked to codexes, and 40k has a much wider audience.

 oni wrote:
App is 100% DoA.

Too expensive.
Value lessens over time.

I see absolutely no meaningful benefit to this app.

Depending on how ui works not having to wait 5min as opponents flips through bs and/or pdf's/ebooks is very nice. And compared to bs not having public easy to edit files making life easier for cheaters is also nice. Those files are super easy to edit. Better rules and cheaper costs? Dirt easy. And unless opponent is familiar with army him/herself no way to identify. Fake files are just as "official" as reqular bs files.

 Sasori wrote:


Even if GW has no legal recourse to go after Battlescribe, they can still do so. It still requires Battlescribe to get representation for their case, and there are a lot of costs for that. Maybe they can recoup those later, maybe not. Going after Microsoft, and going after some tiny company are completely different kinds of animals.

There is a very good chance that if GW sent battlescribe a C&D, they would just fold, even if Battlescribe are legally in the right. The cost and resources to fight something like this are a major ask for a few indie developers.

If GW truly believed that they would have sued Battlescribe ages ago like they did with the 40k list builder at the start of 8th.

 lare2 wrote:
Why would they go after Battlescribe now? They've never cared about AoS being on there and Azyr's been out donkey's.

the 40k App is very different to the AoS App, no free rules and no free army builder

and why should someone pay GW for their army builder of he can get BS for free (and as you can find BS files with the relevant 8th edition unit rules as well, the App has nothing to offer you cannot get somewhere else)

 oni wrote:
App is 100% DoA.

Too expensive.
Value lessens over time.

I see absolutely no meaningful benefit to this app.

It's simply bundling convenience together and charging for it. You can still do everything you could do now without the app.

for 5 bucks a month, to have all my dexes, rules, and listbuilding and quick reference in one spot that's easy to use spot is worth it to me, personally.