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 Arbitrator wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Well GW is mass deleting Facebook comments aboit Indomitus still. They won't even acknowledge the scalper problem.

This kids, is how you lose three years of public approval and salvaged reputation in a single weekend.

GW could mandate you being kicked between the legs with every purchase and they'd make millions in profit, as well as plenty of people telling us why actually it's a good thing.

They'll be fine.

Indeed. And if they added a limited edition "comes with a free kick in the nuts" edition, people would be desperately mad if they didn't secure their kick because it sold out immediately.

But again, that's just a testament to how well GW have the whole FOMO thing worked out.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Well GW is mass deleting Facebook comments aboit Indomitus still. They won't even acknowledge the scalper problem.

This kids, is how you lose three years of public approval and salvaged reputation in a single weekend.

GW could mandate you being kicked between the legs with every purchase and they'd make millions in profit, as well as plenty of people telling us why actually it's a good thing.

They'll be fine.

No they couldn't. The hard truth is that the majority of the community, especially the IRL community are happy enough with GW's releases. If they weren't, people wouldn't be buying them.


Don't forget that GW was VERY RECENTLY in dire financial straits with a clearly failing flagship release(launch sigmar). People were absolutely ready to stop buying GW at the end of 7th edition. So they changed direction and made the first general's handbook.

ERJAK wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Well GW is mass deleting Facebook comments aboit Indomitus still. They won't even acknowledge the scalper problem.

This kids, is how you lose three years of public approval and salvaged reputation in a single weekend.

GW could mandate you being kicked between the legs with every purchase and they'd make millions in profit, as well as plenty of people telling us why actually it's a good thing.

They'll be fine.

No they couldn't. The hard truth is that the majority of the community, especially the IRL community are happy enough with GW's releases. If they weren't, people wouldn't be buying them.


Don't forget that GW was VERY RECENTLY in dire financial straits with a clearly failing flagship release(launch sigmar). People were absolutely ready to stop buying GW at the end of 7th edition. So they changed direction and made the first general's handbook.

It's almost like having a monopoly is beneficial or something.

Zatu are selling there copies with a large markup -

https://www.board-game.co.uk/product/warhammer-40k-indomitus-boxed-set/

Thats another company that I will avoid using in the future.

Not Online!!! wrote:
wellp, looks like my R&H just got squatted.


Gotta love the N'th ammount of primaris but the background backbone of Chaos can feth off accordingly t o gw.

That's just not right! Sorry , I feel for you .
I'll sure put a note for R&H and Eldar corsairs when GW does its next poll (do they still do those?).
[edit]And something about Inquisition too![/edit]

Goblin Gaming have said that GW hve told them they are receiving a second wave of 381 units in late August but I’m sceptical of this. Have any other retailers been told the same?

yukishiro1 wrote:


Indeed. And if they added a limited edition "comes with a free kick in the nuts" edition, people would be desperately mad if they didn't secure their kick because it sold out immediately.

Sounds like a job for the Angry Marines...

Aeneades wrote:
Zatu are selling there copies with a large markup -

https://www.board-game.co.uk/product/warhammer-40k-indomitus-boxed-set/

Thats another company that I will avoid using in the future.

Scumbags.

Scalpers are gonna scalp, it comes with the territory when a company produces limited quantities of product. It can be stopped on both ends - either by customers boycotting them, or by GW taking a stronger stand against them - but neither one seems particularly likely. People want their plastic crack too badly to resist the scalpers, and GW has never shown much interest in cracking down on resellers (unless, of course, they resell too low, rather than too high).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
wellp, looks like my R&H just got squatted.


Gotta love the N'th ammount of primaris but the background backbone of Chaos can feth off accordingly t o gw.

That's just not right! Sorry , I feel for you .
I'll sure put a note for R&H and Eldar corsairs when GW does its next poll (do they still do those?).
[edit]And something about Inquisition too![/edit]

Thanks , but i feel GW divereged quite a bit away kinda, especially in consumer relations.
The last debacle with the preorder of the preorder for the new box just shows that something isn't right anymore in that regard.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
wellp, looks like my R&H just got squatted.


Gotta love the N'th ammount of primaris but the background backbone of Chaos can feth off accordingly t o gw.

That's just not right! Sorry , I feel for you .
I'll sure put a note for R&H and Eldar corsairs when GW does its next poll (do they still do those?).
[edit]And something about Inquisition too![/edit]

Thanks , but i feel GW divereged quite a bit away kinda, especially in consumer relations.
The last debacle with the preorder of the preorder for the new box just shows that something isn't right anymore in that regard.

I'm a bit confused by that last bit. A 'first come, first serve' reserve list is pretty much the best option for a physical shop.
Before the wild days of the internet it was our only option.

The alternative is a scrum at the cash register as people shout for attention when the shop opens on preorder day. That just isn't workable.
And now I'm having flashbacks to Harry Potter release days while working for bookstores...

Na i meant the wierd PR /communication.
And the deletion of comments in fb.

Their right to do so but it shows imo that new gw is just old gw +PR.

The deletion of fw armies and internal issues or what Looks Like power struggles Of Office politics , the fact that gw was Content to let the rulesteam literally Run both elysians and r&h into the ground over 8th Edition aswell as most fw Stuff was with questionable price hikes just the crown after the back Of 7th.



I hate autocorrect...

Voss wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
wellp, looks like my R&H just got squatted.


Gotta love the N'th ammount of primaris but the background backbone of Chaos can feth off accordingly t o gw.

That's just not right! Sorry , I feel for you .
I'll sure put a note for R&H and Eldar corsairs when GW does its next poll (do they still do those?).
[edit]And something about Inquisition too![/edit]

Thanks , but i feel GW divereged quite a bit away kinda, especially in consumer relations.
The last debacle with the preorder of the preorder for the new box just shows that something isn't right anymore in that regard.

I'm a bit confused by that last bit. A 'first come, first serve' reserve list is pretty much the best option for a physical shop.
Before the wild days of the internet it was our only option.

The alternative is a scrum at the cash register as people shout for attention when the shop opens on preorder day. That just isn't workable.
And now I'm having flashbacks to Harry Potter release days while working for bookstores...

Sure, but take a step back for a moment and consider the full context.

Shops started basically taking advance pre-orders on a product, before they had received their allocation numbers from GW. FLGSs had to submit their order quantities last Thursday, and didn't receive their actual allocation numbers until Friday, meaning they had no way to know how many they would get while making promises to their own customers.

Moreover, we also know a lot of these stores tried to order quantities over 100 boxes, some even in the 300 box range. That speaks to a massive disconnect between expectation and reality not just for customers but also store owners. Hundreds is the quantity that you would order for a starter set, not something that in hindsight was intended to be more akin to the Sisters of Battle army box.

My point is that it's completely irresponsible as a business owner to take effective pre-orders on something before you even know how many units you'll be receiving. Especially when the company producing the product has made a consistent point of calling it limited. That's just a recipe to burn your own customers as bad or worse than if you made them show up on pre-order day to fight for a copy.

(Now, I'm basing all of this on a 3rd Party retailer email posted in the 40k General thread, so if there is an actual store owner here that can clear this up, please do.)

That being said, GW also holds a massive amount of blame for this. Why they would release a discount box of all new models, on the eve of a new edition, bundled with a special edition rulebook, as a limited "collectors" product, all while not selling an actual standard starter set is just mind numbingly stupid.

My only guess is that there will be a normal starter set with 90% the same contents (or some equivalent "new hobbyist deal where you get a SC + the core book) for a similar price to Dark Imperium, and they were worried about cannibalizing the sales of Indomitus when people decided that they didn't need to spend $200.

But beyond even that GW clearly saw problems coming given that they kept trying to temper expectations in the community posts going from "everyone will have a chance to get one" all the way to "you can't order more than 3!" And yet despite that still didn't seem to clearly inform their stockists given how blindsided they were come last Friday...

Not Online!!! wrote:
Na i meant the wierd PR /communication.
And the deletion of comments in fb.

Their right to do so but it shows imo that new gw is just old gw +PR.

The deletion of fw armies and internal issues or what Looks Like power struggles Of Office politics , the fact that gw was Content to let the rulesteam literally Run both elysians and r&h into the ground over 8th Edition aswell as most fw Stuff was with questionable price hikes just the crown after the back Of 7th.



I hate autocorrect...

Yeah the unofficial stories that I heard through a couple of directions was that it was main studio who went looking to take over the FW 40k rules and have dones nothing but strip rules/mechnics from units and increase their points.

It's almost like someone is trying to bury FW models in the utterly unplayable pile, because of terrible rules.

Not to mwntion they can spend hourse talking about new Primaris this that and the next thing that won't be released for month's but the books that have supposedly been ready and shipped are never mentioned WTF thats some deliberate burrying.

Aye , supposedly according to gw the fw books are Finisherd or close and will be released early , yet we have Seen jack, beyond now knowing that corsairs, elysians and r&h haven't survived.

I'd not be surprised if dkok will get the 8th Level feths of r&h this time.

I think it's pretty clear GW thinks they have enough product lines in the main game already. I would expect that all the FW-only factions will get fully squatted sooner or later, unless they are instead adopted into the normal GW system and supported that way. GW sees FW as a premium models for existing factions division, not as a division that puts out whole new factions.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Well GW is mass deleting Facebook comments aboit Indomitus still. They won't even acknowledge the scalper problem.

This kids, is how you lose three years of public approval and salvaged reputation in a single weekend.

They probably won't like the meme I just made and posted on their stickied Indomitus post:

ERJAK wrote:


Don't forget that GW was VERY RECENTLY in dire financial straits with a clearly failing flagship release(launch sigmar). People were absolutely ready to stop buying GW at the end of 7th edition. So they changed direction and made the first general's handbook.

They weren't in a dire situation. They were still turning a profit, it was just becoming a smaller profit every quarter.

Look at all it took to bring those people back; a standard issue "we are the Brand are your friends!" of a social media campaign and some beginner sets. Pretty much nothing at all and people came crawling back in droves. Despite continuing more or less the same practises as before - horrible rules writing, regular price increases, annoying business practises - they do it with a smile and a meme, tossing freebies at shills- I mean influencers to tell us everything is GLLOORRIIOOUSS and to keep buying their product. In any other sector of retail, GW wouldn't been ashes a decade ago but look at how little was needed to bring the plane back up.

Age of Sigmar's another good example of what I mean. What did GHB? Actually make the game playable and by 2.0 it was a roaring success. Can you possibly imagine any other company, in or out of gaming, being able to so abruptly turn around a failing product so quickly with what amounted to a few spreadsheets of numbers?

Dang man if they blocked me when asking about Thousand Sons stuff they'll have you in their sights for sure Lag

 Brometheus wrote:
Dang man if they blocked me when asking about Thousand Sons stuff they'll have you in their sights for sure Lag

Well they did warn everyone "you will not be missed"

Ice_can wrote:

It's almost like someone is trying to bury FW models in the utterly unplayable pile, because of terrible rules.

Not to mwntion they can spend hourse talking about new Primaris this that and the next thing that won't be released for month's but the books that have supposedly been ready and shipped are never mentioned WTF thats some deliberate burrying.

Well they are. When 100 spent on plastic gives better profit than 100 spent on resin gw has vested interest those that spam best go for plastic. Resin is left for those who collect 1 of everything rather than what's best

 Ghaz wrote:
[
You can call the box a starter or a beginner's box or even Private Jenkins if you want to. GW says it's not a starter and that's what matters so can we please drop this meaningless tangent?

You are technically right of course. But if it pisses off your customers, being right doesn't matter a jot. The launch box selling out in 10 minutes is a failure to your customer base which ever way you smell it

tneva82 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

It's almost like someone is trying to bury FW models in the utterly unplayable pile, because of terrible rules.

Not to mwntion they can spend hourse talking about new Primaris this that and the next thing that won't be released for month's but the books that have supposedly been ready and shipped are never mentioned WTF thats some deliberate burrying.

Well they are. When 100 spent on plastic gives better profit than 100 spent on resin gw has vested interest those that spam best go for plastic. Resin is left for those who collect 1 of everything rather than what's best

Well they can enjoy 100%of zero as that how much I'll ever be spending on Primefail marines.

It's also annoying when they drop 100's of points from a codex model but the FW version which has the same stats but different weapons gets a points increase at the next CA. It's beyond blatent at that point.

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
Goblin Gaming have said that GW hve told them they are receiving a second wave of 381 units in late August but I’m sceptical of this. Have any other retailers been told the same?

A few others (Outpost & Wayland IIRC) have said similar things - that there'll be more in August once GW gets more boxes printed.

ERJAK wrote:
Don't forget that GW was VERY RECENTLY in dire financial straits with a clearly failing flagship release(launch sigmar). People were absolutely ready to stop buying GW at the end of 7th edition. So they changed direction and made the first general's handbook.

What makes you say that they were in "dire financial straits"? From what I remember, GW has no debt. They are in a really healthy position to weather all kinds of financial shocks.

ERJAK wrote:
...I keep wanting to post the random nonsense that's filling my brain as it desperately tries to occupy itself with something other than thinking about the new points not having been leaked yet, but I imagine it would be woefully off topic.

Do iiiiit! Muting to break this innane cycle of arguing over nothing lol. I'm probably going to buy the two CA books anyway just so I have copies of missions etc. I see no reason to buy the BRB though other than for crusade, everything else is either low I know about our rules that are in the core set anyway.

 Trickstick wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Don't forget that GW was VERY RECENTLY in dire financial straits with a clearly failing flagship release(launch sigmar). People were absolutely ready to stop buying GW at the end of 7th edition. So they changed direction and made the first general's handbook.

What makes you say that they were in "dire financial straits"? From what I remember, GW has no debt. They are in a really healthy position to weather all kinds of financial shocks.

I think he means two or three years ago when the general stock trend was flat or downwards, sustained solely by price inflation to cover dwindling sales of their new flagship product and motivated, allegedly, mostly by certain directors’ desire to pad their retirement package stock options. There was a general sense of impending doom – some people were genuinely worried the company would become completely unsustainable if it carried on and would have to be broken up or, worse, sold to Hasbro. Then certain people left and the new creative team revamped AoS into an actual game, tripled the production rate for new stuff, and doubled the stock price in about three months. It’s not quite a Trading Places level legendary turnaround but GAW was suddenly a stock pension funds were looking seriously at instead of teetering on the brink of a general sell-off.
I personally wouldn’t have called their financial states dire at the time but certainly if the writing wasn’t on the wall yet at the time, people definitely were looking around for the pen. So potentially dire with poor prospects for recovery outside a major change.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
I think he means two or three years ago when the general stock trend was flat or downwards, sustained solely by price inflation to cover dwindling sales of their new flagship product and motivated, allegedly, mostly by certain directors’ desire to pad their retirement package stock options. There was a general sense of impending doom – some people were genuinely worried the company would become completely unsustainable if it carried on and would have to be broken up or, worse, sold to Hasbro. Then certain people left and the new creative team revamped AoS into an actual game, tripled the production rate for new stuff, and doubled the stock price in about three months. It’s not quite a Trading Places level legendary turnaround but GAW was suddenly a stock pension funds were looking seriously at instead of teetering on the brink of a general sell-off.
I personally wouldn’t have called their financial states dire at the time but certainly if the writing wasn’t on the wall yet at the time, people definitely were looking around for the pen. So potentially dire with poor prospects for recovery outside a major change.

I think that if they were heavily leveraged at the time, and then that situation happened, that would have been pretty dire. But when you can just borrow money you can easily survive such troubling times.

Thing is what has helped GW survive so long is specifically not borrowing money. So so so many of the bigger brand names we see falling apart are doing so because they have taken out big loans to expand and maintain themselves. Which means when the economy takes a big downturn they can't just adjust their business to suit. They can only lower their overheads so much because they have a massive loan overhead that needs regular repayments.

Even they've they've made millions each year they've still got far more in debt. So you can see large companies that, without the loans, would survive; suddenly crumble and fall apart.

GW hasn't got that risk and its protected them for years. Sure it has also slowed them, chances are some big loans early on and they could have become a giant in the market far more so than they are today. However they might have also had increased risks during recessions.
The other protection is that other big brands haven't really pushed into the wargaming market so GW hasn't had to compete with big names flooding the market with advertising and super-cheap product and vast market outreach. Actions that often force other firms in other markets to take out their own loans so that they can remain current instead of being left behind by richer (or loan taking) firms.

tneva82 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

It's almost like someone is trying to bury FW models in the utterly unplayable pile, because of terrible rules.

Not to mwntion they can spend hourse talking about new Primaris this that and the next thing that won't be released for month's but the books that have supposedly been ready and shipped are never mentioned WTF thats some deliberate burrying.

Well they are. When 100 spent on plastic gives better profit than 100 spent on resin gw has vested interest those that spam best go for plastic. Resin is left for those who collect 1 of everything rather than what's best

More accurately, Resin is for stuff that isn't practical or cost effective to do in plastic. Anything super huge, anything with lots of fine detail and undercuts, particularly if it's best as a singular piece instead of a multi-part component, is where resin shines, but yes it's not as cost effective as plastics with the scale GW operates at for the main product lines.