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Don't forget that GW was VERY RECENTLY in dire financial straits with a clearly failing flagship release(launch sigmar). People were absolutely ready to stop buying GW at the end of 7th edition. So they changed direction and made the first general's handbook.
They weren't in a dire situation. They were still turning a profit, it was just becoming a smaller profit every quarter.
Look at all it took to bring those people back; a standard issue "we are the Brand are your friends!" of a social media campaign and some beginner sets. Pretty much nothing at all and people came crawling back in droves. Despite continuing more or less the same practises as before - horrible rules writing, regular price increases, annoying business practises - they do it with a smile and a meme, tossing freebies at shills- I mean influencers to tell us everything is GLLOORRIIOOUSS and to keep buying their product. In any other sector of retail, GW wouldn't been ashes a decade ago but look at how little was needed to bring the plane back up.
Age of Sigmar's another good example of what I mean. What did GHB? Actually make the game playable and by 2.0 it was a roaring success. Can you possibly imagine any other company, in or out of gaming, being able to so abruptly turn around a failing product so quickly with what amounted to a few spreadsheets of numbers?
It was more than that, much more. The first GHB introduced a number of matched play rules but also heralded the start of allegiance abilities and pricing schemes where new models were coming out at considerably less, and even rebooting some at a tremendous discount per model than originally. They also started releasing Start Collecting boxes around that time which reduced the effective price of the game even more as well as including 'stealth' price decreases. The cost to build some armies, newer ones especially, went down by 25% or more in some cases. They ALSO started with the additional PR around this time, which compounded things; not only were they presenting themselves as reforming, they backed it up in a big way.
I have been shocked how quickly the severity of late Kirby-era GW has been forgotten even by people who are issuing criticism.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 00:00:44
There's 9 characters in that box. Many have equivalents already, so released individually, just the characters will be around $300.
There's 9 characters...and 4(Lieutenant, Captain, Royal Warden, and Overlord) are on individual sprues.
The other 5 are on two shared sprues(the Plasmancer and Skorpekh Lord are on the Necron one with the Reanimator while the Chaplain, Judiciar, and Bladeguard Ancient are all part of the Marine sprue with Bladeguard and Eradicators) keyed to each faction.
Frankly, I'm expecting the Bladeguard Ancient to be a part of the Bladeguard's box if ever there is one.
Alright, some may not get released individually.
But still, some simply math:
Rulebook- $65 by itself.
Primaris LTs - $35 in various poses
Primaris Captains- $35 (or $36)
Necron Overlord- $28 for current one. New one likely to be somewhat higher.
Warden- doesn't exist. Let's lowball it and call it $28 too.
So, $191, $8 less than the total price of the box set, for 4 models and a book, and that's with 5 year old prices on the necron characters.
Lets be generous and say everything else gets tossed into start collecting sets. Well, Vanguard Space Marines are $95 and fairly recent. Seems a reasonable baseline.
So $190 for both of those.
We've almost doubled the cost of the box set with very conservative prices.
'No rush, they'll come out individually eventually' is a 100% price increase, minimum.
So the box actually is a good deal now? What happened to people being manipulated into buying it by limited stock? Are they manipulated harder to buy it when it comes out at a higher price and not limited?
Do you not know how marketing works?
Again, you have it reversed. The price of the individual kits are so high so that you are driven to buy the bundle, which often comes with some extra stuff you do not need. It's basic psychology to manipulate people's ability to compare similar things. You produce limited product for a "discount" (Note that it is all relative and GW is not loosing a cent on the "sale" they are offering here. They're actually making quite a lot) to further incentive people buying all of it immediately with no thought or consideration.
I mean come on, are you just not thinking through what people are writing here?
The thread moves pretty fast; it seems like you missed some previous back-and-forth with him that lends additional context to my comment. But the passive-aggressive insults are uncalled for regardless.
Your post was super passive aggressive itself, so I tend to respond in kind.
And I've read every post. I can't promise I've fully processed them all.
I can tell.
"How dare you be passive aggressive"
*Proceeds to be passive aggressive*
Do you just not read your own posts in this thread? So many of them literally ooze condescension
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: Thing is what has helped GW survive so long is specifically not borrowing money. So so so many of the bigger brand names we see falling apart are doing so because they have taken out big loans to expand and maintain themselves. Which means when the economy takes a big downturn they can't just adjust their business to suit. They can only lower their overheads so much because they have a massive loan overhead that needs regular repayments.
Even they've they've made millions each year they've still got far more in debt. So you can see large companies that, without the loans, would survive; suddenly crumble and fall apart.
GW hasn't got that risk and its protected them for years. Sure it has also slowed them, chances are some big loans early on and they could have become a giant in the market far more so than they are today. However they might have also had increased risks during recessions.
The other protection is that other big brands haven't really pushed into the wargaming market so GW hasn't had to compete with big names flooding the market with advertising and super-cheap product and vast market outreach. Actions that often force other firms in other markets to take out their own loans so that they can remain current instead of being left behind by richer (or loan taking) firms.
I've said it before. But the second Jeff Bezos goes "Man I like wargaming, let's do that", GW's days as an independent company are over.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 00:46:28
yukishiro1 wrote: I think it's pretty clear GW thinks they have enough product lines in the main game already. I would expect that all the FW-only factions will get fully squatted sooner or later, unless they are instead adopted into the normal GW system and supported that way. GW sees FW as a premium models for existing factions division, not as a division that puts out whole new factions.
They don't even support most of the fw models for existing factions. All the fw super heavys got a massive points hike in ca 2018 (and they were already overpriced in the Indexes) and those high costs were simply reprinted in ca 2019, when almost all non-fw super heavys got a reduction. Except for one fw super heavy: the Astreus. Can anyone guess what makes the Astreus different from other fw super heavys? Here's a hint: primaris.
There's 9 characters in that box. Many have equivalents already, so released individually, just the characters will be around $300.
There's 9 characters...and 4(Lieutenant, Captain, Royal Warden, and Overlord) are on individual sprues.
The other 5 are on two shared sprues(the Plasmancer and Skorpekh Lord are on the Necron one with the Reanimator while the Chaplain, Judiciar, and Bladeguard Ancient are all part of the Marine sprue with Bladeguard and Eradicators) keyed to each faction.
Frankly, I'm expecting the Bladeguard Ancient to be a part of the Bladeguard's box if ever there is one.
Alright, some may not get released individually.
But still, some simply math:
Rulebook- $65 by itself.
Primaris LTs - $35 in various poses
Primaris Captains- $35 (or $36)
Necron Overlord- $28 for current one. New one likely to be somewhat higher.
Warden- doesn't exist. Let's lowball it and call it $28 too.
So, $191, $8 less than the total price of the box set, for 4 models and a book, and that's with 5 year old prices on the necron characters.
Lets be generous and say everything else gets tossed into start collecting sets. Well, Vanguard Space Marines are $95 and fairly recent. Seems a reasonable baseline.
So $190 for both of those.
We've almost doubled the cost of the box set with very conservative prices.
'No rush, they'll come out individually eventually' is a 100% price increase, minimum.
So the box actually is a good deal now? What happened to people being manipulated into buying it by limited stock? Are they manipulated harder to buy it when it comes out at a higher price and not limited?
Do you not know how marketing works?
Again, you have it reversed. The price of the individual kits are so high so that you are driven to buy the bundle, which often comes with some extra stuff you do not need. It's basic psychology to manipulate people's ability to compare similar things. You produce limited product for a "discount" (Note that it is all relative and GW is not loosing a cent on the "sale" they are offering here. They're actually making quite a lot) to further incentive people buying all of it immediately with no thought or consideration.
I mean come on, are you just not thinking through what people are writing here?
The thread moves pretty fast; it seems like you missed some previous back-and-forth with him that lends additional context to my comment. But the passive-aggressive insults are uncalled for regardless.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
It seems you now understand my perspective, to some extent, stratigo.
But for the record, no, I was not being passive aggressive to start. I was very directly questioning the idea that someone would express the Indomitus box being of poor enough value that people must be manipulated into buying it, then turn around and express the very opposite.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 02:38:12
NinthMusketeer wrote: It seems you now understand my perspective, to some extent, stratigo.
But for the record, no, I was not being passive aggressive to start. I was very directly questioning the idea that someone would express the Indomitus box being of poor enough value that people must be manipulated into buying it, then turn around and express the very opposite.
Is that what you were doing? You should have just said, rather than dancing vaguely about.
But if that's your point:
Manipulation is independent of value. You can still push additional people into purchases with shady tactics even if they're a good deal or even cheap.*
Moving the goalposts from 'limited but widely available,' to '6 max' to '3 max' (the latter in 24 hours), to '1 total' definitely qualifies as manipulation with Fear of Missing Out, regardless of the value. Pretty heavy handed to my mind.
*see the fast food industry for easy examples. Its quite easy to manipulate someone into large fries and a large drink, even if they aren't that hungry. Its much harder to manipulate them into additional meals per visit.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 03:10:09
NinthMusketeer wrote: It seems you now understand my perspective, to some extent, stratigo.
But for the record, no, I was not being passive aggressive to start. I was very directly questioning the idea that someone would express the Indomitus box being of poor enough value that people must be manipulated into buying it, then turn around and express the very opposite.
Is that what you were doing? You should have just said, rather than dancing vaguely about.
But if that's your point:
Manipulation is independent of value. You can still push additional people into purchases with shady tactics even if they're a good deal or even cheap.*
Moving the goalposts from 'limited but widely available,' to '6 max' to '3 max' (the latter in 24 hours), to '1 total' definitely qualifies as manipulation with Fear of Missing Out, regardless of the value. Pretty heavy handed to my mind.
*see the fast food industry for easy examples. Its quite easy to manipulate someone into large fries and a large drink, even if they aren't that hungry. Its much harder to manipulate them into additional meals per visit.
That was just the initial question, the dancing was me indulging an admittedly guilty pleasure at stratigo's expense. At any rate, I understand your position more now that you explain it that way. But I still very much disagree; when something is of such good value the manipulation makes no sense in light of it being limited. They were going to sell out, just by virtue of the product's appeal vs its supply. You already explained the value of the product, and shown how it retains that value even to someone just buying it to resell. There is no way it was not going to sell out, and given GW's past I think them (vastly) underestimating demand is far more plausible than them engaging in manipulation to ensure it sold out just a bit faster. In particular I note that GW has plenty of times over-produced limited products to an extent that they can still be found on shelves today. That shows they have had trouble with sales estimates in the past.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 03:36:32
NinthMusketeer wrote: But I still very much disagree; when something is of such good value the manipulation makes no sense in light of it being limited. They were going to sell out, just by virtue of the product's appeal vs its supply. You already explained the value of the product, and shown how it retains that value even to someone just buying it to resell. There is no way it was not going to sell out, and given GW's past I think them (vastly) underestimating demand is far more plausible than them engaging in manipulation to ensure it sold out just a bit faster. In particular I note that GW has plenty of times over-produced limited products to an extent that they can still be found on shelves today. That shows they have had trouble with sales estimates in the past.
going by the argument that GW underastimated the demand of the box would mean that GW still has no clue what their community wants and/or thought that people buy models because they like the background no matter how outdated they are
so it was a big surprise for them that so many people wanted a box with shiny new Necrons, after weeks of heavy advertising, although no one bought the old crap models.
not like some people waited ~10 years for new Warrior models before they wanted to start that army
hence it would mean that GW learned nothing from the fail of Warhammer Fantasy and was just lucky with their decisions
of course it is easier to think about that GW leanred from mistakes and knows what they are doing and of course having the launch box sold out in 30 minutes and people complaining about on the web is the best advertising for a new game you can get as it means the game is very popular and everyone is playing it (while having launch box in stock for 2 weeks leads to the impression that that it is not as popular as other games were before and all kind of conclusions etc)
so there is only a problem if the crowed that is pissed because it did not get the box stays away from 9th and keeps playing 8th or turn to another game and in addition is large enough to hurt future sales
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
When you cannot argue on bases of power levels GW still has a lot of reeducating to do.
I know when it is closing time. - Rascal Mod
"Some people measure common sense with a ruler others with a potato."- Making Money Terry Pratchett
"what's with all the hate go paint something you lazy bastards" - NAVARRO
"You don't need pants for the victory dance." -BAWTRM
NinthMusketeer wrote: But I still very much disagree; when something is of such good value the manipulation makes no sense in light of it being limited. They were going to sell out, just by virtue of the product's appeal vs its supply. You already explained the value of the product, and shown how it retains that value even to someone just buying it to resell. There is no way it was not going to sell out, and given GW's past I think them (vastly) underestimating demand is far more plausible than them engaging in manipulation to ensure it sold out just a bit faster. In particular I note that GW has plenty of times over-produced limited products to an extent that they can still be found on shelves today. That shows they have had trouble with sales estimates in the past.
going by the argument that GW underastimated the demand of the box would mean that GW still has no clue what their community wants and/or thought that people buy models because they like the background no matter how outdated they are
so it was a big surprise for them that so many people wanted a box with shiny new Necrons, after weeks of heavy advertising, although no one bought the old crap models.
not like some people waited ~10 years for new Warrior models before they wanted to start that army
hence it would mean that GW learned nothing from the fail of Warhammer Fantasy and was just lucky with their decisions
of course it is easier to think about that GW leanred from mistakes and knows what they are doing and of course having the launch box sold out in 30 minutes and people complaining about on the web is the best advertising for a new game you can get as it means the game is very popular and everyone is playing it (while having launch box in stock for 2 weeks leads to the impression that that it is not as popular as other games were before and all kind of conclusions etc)
so there is only a problem if the crowed that is pissed because it did not get the box stays away from 9th and keeps playing 8th or turn to another game and in addition is large enough to hurt future sales
This has literally nothing in common with Fantasy. The issues around Fantasy are as different to issues today as, well, two things that are completely different and not at all the same.
We have literally no idea how many were made or sold or are still out there waiting to be purchased. Anything else is just mental masturbation.
There is zero chance this hurts their future sales in any noticeable manner, because in reality it is a non-issue.
One big issue why Fantasy stopped selling well was that the factions were not updated in their core for a long time
It did not sell because no one wanted to buy 20 year old core units which were needed in masses to field some of the shiny new stuff
And some 40k factions have the same problem
just Marines get an update in the core each edition, no one is going to buy into basic Elder models if he must not use them
so not expecting Necrons to sell well after they got an update for their core units means they did not learn from Fantasy as this is what people are waiting for, that the whole army uses the same design and has up to date models for those units you must uses
and yes, for now GW can do nothing that will hurt their sales as everything that happens during pre-order is forgotten on launch day
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 07:22:45
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
I don’t think GW got the demand for Indomitus wrong , I think they got the price wrong.
£40 rulebook , 2 start collecting plus around £100 worth of characters. Add on the fact that there were still 3rd party discounts available (not as many as usual granted) , and that GW threw in some okay freebies with direct orders (those will be going for £30-50 cone release on eBay) and that many people haven’t been spending as much over the last few months and you have a massive demand at £125.
Guarantee that this morning GW is wishing they’d gone at £150-180.
TwilightSparkles wrote: I don’t think GW got the demand for Indomitus wrong , I think they got the price wrong.
£40 rulebook , 2 start collecting plus around £100 worth of characters. Add on the fact that there were still 3rd party discounts available (not as many as usual granted) , and that GW threw in some okay freebies with direct orders (those will be going for £30-50 cone release on eBay) and that many people haven’t been spending as much over the last few months and you have a massive demand at £125.
Guarantee that this morning GW is wishing they’d gone at £150-180.
It's in all regards, aside from GW calling it otherwise, a 9th edition starter set. No one needs more cheap dice and rulers.
And for a starter set, it has the expected price raise from 8th edition's Dark Imperium.
Stopped by the LGFS late Sunday, and they had an Indomitus box on display to encourage preorders, so I'd imagine many shops got at least one promo copy to spur sales - probably where the likes of the sprue pictures have come from.
I broke down and preordered a couple of the necron units I wanted, since this looks like it might be a scarce/scalped commodity for a while. However, I just realized I don't have the datasheets for these models - going to ask the seller if he can include them...
I'm not planning to go to 9th edition (the necron models I'm getting should work in 8th), but I do hope they release tiered starter sets like they did with 8th. A "Getting Started" magazine like the one for 8th would be nice as well (it had a single Primaris model, the base rules, a page or two of lore and some basic paint guidelines). I don't imagine we'll see that until August or later though - when did the Know no Fear and other starter box come out for 8th - it was a month or three after Dark Millennium, correct?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 08:32:56
On Friday, Mob Rules received a document from Games Workshop with all the point values for the upcoming Chapter Approved Munitorium Field Manual, and Danny spent a large portion of Friday doing some data entry on a comparative spreadsheet to try and make sense of all these changes.
I think it is difficult to grasp exactly what all this means in entirety without having a lot more relevant information, like the Grand Tournament mission pack and the big FAQ’s coming. That being said, I to believe we can grasp some of the points changes that make sense and where some armies are at, speculatively.
Overall, you can see an overall trend of points increases to the tune of 17.5%. Some armies seem to be much higher than this, and others appear to be significantly lower. This data is presented with a few caveats:
1. There seems to be a trend in adding the weapon cost of units into the overall cost of a unit if it is the only unit utilizing that piece of weapon. For instance, Eldar tops the charts at an overall increase of nearly 47%, however, their weapon costs dropped an average of about 25%, meaning overall units only went up a little more than 20%. There are several units in the Necron and Tau armies that have a similar story.
2. Everything went up. You must remember this when looking at this information. Very few units went down or stayed the same, the vast majority of units went up in cost. So, in context, your unit or army did not get screwed over, it just is readjusted to a new norm.
3. Again, we do not have a full picture without having the new competitive mission set or FAQ’s, so maybe some of these changes coincide with additional utility or changes. This is extremely important to know.
4. My analysis does not take into account Forgeworld Units, as these are getting totally rewritten so I do not want to make assumptions about how new datasheets will change units. The good new is that they are definitely changing units, as the Scorpius went up 20 points and is also in the Heavy Support slot now, as is the Relic Leviathan, who also increased about 20-30 points depending on loadout.
Biggest Winners:
1. Thousand Sons
a. Thousand Sons are already a fairly popular faction in the game (at least for armies that soup Chaos), and the points drops did them all favors. Units like the Daemon Prince with wings stayed the same points (though a pair of Malefic Talons costs more points), and the core units of the army did not go up a massive amount (minus Cultists who cost 6 points now). Rubrics and Tzaangors only went up 2 and 1 point respectively, so they really came out much better. Scarab Occult only went up 4 points a model, another powerful unit in the TS arsenal and frequently sees play in pure armies. Ahriman on foot went up quite a bit, while the model on the disk only went up 4 points, making him a lot more viable comparatively. In addition, we might see more Exalted Sorcerers, as they both went down in points AND get free force weapons, so they are considerably cheaper. The Exalted Sorcerer on Disk went down a total of 18 points! I think we will see pure armies a lot more often, so I hope these all make Thousand Sons armies show up a lot more often.
2. Death Guard
a. Death Guard were poised to be one of the better armies in the game after their Psychic Awakening, and the points changes make this even more apparent. While some units went up quite a bit (Poxwalkers are now a very Nurglely 7 points), most of their units cost roughly the same or had very slight increases. Myphetic Blight Haulers become a much better choice, as they went down 5 points a model base cost, with only a slight hike of weapon options. I think this unit, in particular, combos up so well the new mission structure as they are a great bully unit and take a ton of abuse to die. Also, a great blocker for Cloud of Flies units. Spawn, which I feel like will be a staple in new Death Guard armies, went up only 3 points a model. This, combined with the new PA stratagem for giving Disgustingly Resilient, will make this unit a must take as well. Plague Marines and Possessed only went up around 2 and 3 points a model, so these units are still well poised to be excellent choices for the future. I am extremely excited to play against Death Guard more often as they are an amazingly dynamic army right now.
3. Custodes
a. Custodes are going to be a force to be reckoned with, as units like Allarus Terminators dropped one point per model overall, and Aqulion Terminators from Forgeworld dropped 4 points a model. Their overall cost increase is deceptive, as awfully expensive units like the Venerable Land Raider and the Venerable Contemptor Dreadnought went up (~45%), but their weapons are either much cheaper or free. In addition, the Sisters of Silence stayed roughly the same but their wargear costs are rolled into the unit profiles, grossly inflating their % change. If we account for these, the GW Custodes range only got about 8.5% more expensive. I think with the smaller board size it’s going to be much harder to hide from Custodes, and with their tricks to teleporting extremely close to the enemy and new rules from Psychic Awakening, they will truly be a serious force to contend with.
4. Honorable Mention: Knights?
a. Knights of both types are the some of the points change leaders. While I think the current mission-set is going to be hard for them, we will see if they get army specific victory conditions that are more suited for their playstyle. An increase in terrain they will have great difficulty crossing over will really limit their viability so while they are on the winners list we will see if that is maintained. Also, depending on which Knight Castellan points profile is correct, as a cheaper Knight Castellan on the table might limit armies again in the same way that it did before.
Biggest Losers:
1. Eldar
a. Eldar are in a very tough spot. Even if points changes are a little deceptive for this army, they still have some large obstacles to overcome. I feel like currently the mission structure does not provide a great outlet for Eldar, as their speed is of less value on a smaller board (potentially), and they need to be able to sit on objectives to claim them. Their durability in the past version of the rules revolved around massive penalties to hit, and that is not the case any longer with capped modifiers to hit. Things like the Night Spinner going up 25 points, Fire Prisms going up 30 points, and Shining Spears going up 15 points a model will all be large blows to this army, as these were commonly seen, competitive units. Flyers will be of lesser impact, though they both went up about 10%. Troops also went up quite a bit, with Guardian Defenders going up 2 points (platforms 7), Rangers up 3 points, and Storm Guardians also going up 3 points will put a tax on many of these units. I don’t think it’s a great time to be a Craftworlds player, but they do still have some very competitively pointed psykers and perhaps other units will come to the fore as the choice – Wave Serpents are extremely good in this version of the rules and I expect that to be the default choice in the future. Roomba game still strong.
2. Tau
a. Arguably one of the most frustrating armies to play against in the last iteration of the rules were Tau. This is due to their For the Greater Good ability and (mostly) Savior Protocols being so powerful. Well, that has been tempered somewhat. The biggest change for Tau is the change to Shield Drones. Shield Drones now costs 15 points a model, going up from just 10 points. This is obviously a huge change, and a backbone unit of the army has been nerfed extremely hard. Now, you can substitute these units for Gun Drones, but they do not have nearly the same durability that Shield Drones had. Many other Drone units went up between 25-50% as well. Tau also suffer from some similar issues to Eldar in the points spread, as they have many units that have had wargear costs added to profiles and then reduced to zero cost. The vehicles were really the units that did not change much, so maybe we will see more Hammerheads and Devilfish? I guess time will tell here. In addition to this, Tau really got hit hard with the changes to the fly rule, so I think it will be a much harder road for an army that was already very technical to play going into 9th edition.
3. Orks
a. Poor Orks. As Danny is a sometimes Ork player, the big funguses really have a soft spot in his heart. I think this army will just have to drastically change the way that they approach the table from the way that they currently play – i.e. the change from Hordes to a more mechanized approach. Things that are good – all the buggies only went up 10 points, and some have decreased weapon costs as well. Trukks went up one point, and things like Battlewagons and its ilk only got slight points rises. In addition, the HQ section (with one exception) only got slight points increases as well. Ork Boyz only got a 1 point price increase (Great!), and Meganobz only got an overall 4 point increase! Great! However, the building block of a lot of Ork lists, Grots, went up quite a lot – 5 points a model. This is extremely expensive for a unit that dies in droves and it is very unfortunate. One of the other big increases was the Shokk Attack Gun Big Mek – going from 80 points to a whopping 120 points – a 50% increase. This seems excessive, but this model (especially with the Relic SAG), was incredible usually one turn per game and picks up something really valuable. We will see how well Orks can shift into a more mechanized and faster army, but we at Mob Rules have faith that Gork and Mork will see us through.
Overall, there are so many changes, it is really difficult and time consuming to get into every nitty gritty interaction and change we have coming. It will be extremely exciting to see what the meta produces from this edition change and a total rebalancing of the rules.
There is also an issue of potential misprints or units not existing. For example, the Imperial Knights getting free Volcano Lances and Plasma Decimators on the Knight Castellan means he checks in at 639 points, which is significantly cheaper than his Chaos counterpart who pays an additional 110 points for his weapons. I believe this is a typo and needs to be addressed. Also, some unit entries are missing in codex units, like the Canoptek Spyder for example, or Forgeworld Units like the Chaplain Dreadnought, Kharybdis Assault Claw, and Zhadsnark da Rippa. Are these units gone from the game? Hard to say at this point. In addition, the lists for units for the Elysian and Renegades and Heretics lists are no longer in the index, so I assume these are gone from the game for the time being.
Both Jon and Danny are extremely excited for a new edition and the things it brings, while being fully aware we still are not seeing a complete big picture. We are MUCH closer now than ever though. Tell us what you think!
There is also an issue of potential misprints or units not existing. For example, the Imperial Knights getting free Volcano Lances and Plasma Decimators on the Knight Castellan means he checks in at 639 points, which is significantly cheaper than his Chaos counterpart who pays an additional 110 points for his weapons. I believe this is a typo and needs to be addressed. Also, some unit entries are missing in codex units, like the Canoptek Spyder for example, or Forgeworld Units like the Chaplain Dreadnought, Kharybdis Assault Claw, and Zhadsnark da Rippa. Are these units gone from the game? Hard to say at this point. In addition, the lists for units for the Elysian and Renegades and Heretics lists are no longer in the index, so I assume these are gone from the game for the time being.
Ah, GW quality controll...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/13 09:30:24
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
There is also an issue of potential misprints or units not existing. For example, the Imperial Knights getting free Volcano Lances and Plasma Decimators on the Knight Castellan means he checks in at 639 points, which is significantly cheaper than his Chaos counterpart who pays an additional 110 points for his weapons. I believe this is a typo and needs to be addressed. Also, some unit entries are missing in codex units, like the Canoptek Spyder for example, or Forgeworld Units like the Chaplain Dreadnought, Kharybdis Assault Claw, and Zhadsnark da Rippa. Are these units gone from the game? Hard to say at this point. In addition, the lists for units for the Elysian and Renegades and Heretics lists are no longer in the index, so I assume these are gone from the game for the time being.
Ah, GW quality controll...
Quality control or something else hmm?
*Tin foil hat time*....
The Qarnakh Dynasty - Starting Again From scratch...Once again
kirotheavenger wrote: People like straws, and they're not willing to give any up even as the camel begins to buckle.
well, i guess it's time for me to write a last email to them, along the line off:
Dude, where are my rules?
Also the typo brought up is another feth you to the end user and accordingly to them just another exemple in what seems to be many, i allready get start of 8th flashbacks , and in what world is a grot worth 5/8'ths of a orkboy?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 09:37:51
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Can't say I expect castellens to se the table if the choas points are correct.
I'm glad that it looks like the supposed leaked 10+% points increases for knights was wrong as that would have made them dang hard to justify in 9th.
I notice Spacemarines especially the Indomitaous models are conspicuous by their absence.
Not surprised that shield drones got hit but it does sound like they might be over paying for still having overwatch etc if everything has gone up in points as crisis suits etc weren't great for their points anyway.
kodos wrote: One big issue why Fantasy stopped selling well was that the factions were not updated in their core for a long time
It did not sell because no one wanted to buy 20 year old core units which were needed in masses to field some of the shiny new stuff
And some 40k factions have the same problem
just Marines get an update in the core each edition, no one is going to buy into basic Elder models if he must not use them
so not expecting Necrons to sell well after they got an update for their core units means they did not learn from Fantasy as this is what people are waiting for, that the whole army uses the same design and has up to date models for those units you must uses
and yes, for now GW can do nothing that will hurt their sales as everything that happens during pre-order is forgotten on launch day
This is true on so many levels ! Non updated armies are also totally absent from GW's shelf, which makes it harder for them to be sighted by new players.
Damn nothing about CSM's points.
xttz wrote: Goonhammer review of the points values
DA got hammered somehow, and CSM units that I own and usually play all got up in points. I'll need to add some terminators to my list it seems (love those units but they sucked until now). I'm a bit saddened that they decided to make termi viable by effectively reducing their points relatively speaking to other units. They should have increase their tankiness but that's not what they did.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/13 10:23:43
