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2011/06/15 18:33:26
Subject: Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
I don't plan to go over 1000 points with this army, and mostly what I have is Guard. I envision maybe using sisters with guard as an Ally detatchment in place of scions to hit something hard, but there may be other roles that would be better you might suggest.
Looking for thoughts on a 500 point stand alone patrol detatchment for Escallation, and a 500 to 1000 (maybe 750) batallion drop in to go alongside a guard army. I usually play mechanized infantry with guard as catachan or steel legion.
This is also as much for fun as anything so coolness/aesthetics of units may win out over hypercompetitiveness for the sisters.
Any thoughts?
2020/05/31 15:29:42
Subject: Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
Is there a sense to take the IG, when it makes the sisters lose all their special abilities.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2020/05/31 15:41:45
Subject: Re:Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
The loss to Sisters when used in a multi-faction army is just Sacred Rites. The only really bad thing you lose out on is the ability to have psychic defense that really matters. The other bonus are minor, especially when compared to Space Marine Doctrines.
As for a Sisters/Guard army, it's all about the role you want the two parts of the army to serve. Sisters are definitely much more effective than Guardsmen on the line unless you put a lot of elements into building assault guardsmen. So I would say Sisters forward with Guard fire support would be the way to go with such an army.
2020/05/31 15:54:58
Subject: Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
I don't think that losing sacred rites are a small lose, specialy if opponents keep theirs. On top of that each non sob unit in a sob unit takes away form the points that could generate miracle dice, so it is not just sacred rites that are being lost. Over all buffs and army synergies also don't exist between IG and SoB, excluding maybe the IG priests.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2020/05/31 17:26:36
Subject: Re:Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
IG has plenty of offer a SOB army. That doesn't mean there is no loss to the SOB part of the army for being part of a pairing. You just need to be sure to construct the army in a way that is synergistic between the two halves to makeup for what is lost.
2020/05/31 18:58:27
Subject: Re:Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
So along the lines of what axeltroy is saying, what I'm looking for when combining with guard at higher points (sisters would still be separate as a patrol detachment) might be replacing a scions deep strike unit. It isn't so much critical to me to get the max capability out of the sisters, but for the sisters to be at least as valuable for their points as the scions might be.
So for example, as an alternative to the sisters either as part of a scion battalion or in a patrol detachment for escalation, I might start with something like:
1 or 2 Tempestor Primes Command Rod
Three 5 Man Scion Squad: Plasma Pistol, Plasma Gun, Hotshot Volley Gun
And a Taurox Prime w/ Gatling Cannon, Hotshot Volley Guns
So my first thinking for a Sisters swap would be the Rhino, Cannoness Battle sisters squads, and perhaps retribution squad with melta and bolters (double melta if I wind up buying two retribution squad boxes).
I'm still kind of thinking through the merits of something that would at least do as well as scions for the points. So any thoughts along those lines are of interest. I'm totally ok with it not being the most competitive use of sisters.
So here's a list that may be complete junk, but its where my thinking is starting
The most important things IG bring to the table that you don't have is indirect fire and range. As a Sisters player, you lack the ability to meaningfully threaten the enemy backfield at all in some deployments, and have no NLoS systems for shooting people off objectives.
So consider emphasizing range and IF capabilities in your IG detachment: Manticores, Basilisks, Wyverns; and maybe some Tank Commanders.
Sisters are better "cheap troops" than Guardsmen and just generally massively better as infantry, so Sisters should be your objective-holders and shock troops.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/31 19:43:38
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2020/05/31 20:10:22
Subject: Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
Karol wrote: Is there a sense to take the IG, when it makes the sisters lose all their special abilities.
All? They lose sacred rites. Not exactly something that you need to weep. It's far less than doctrines, normal or super one. Only major one is psyker deny thing and that's rather specific case.
Extra AP on bolters on 6 to wound, extra move/charge, reroll morale test etc...you aren't losing that much...
I don't plan to go over 1000 points with this army, and mostly what I have is Guard. I envision maybe using sisters with guard as an Ally detatchment in place of scions to hit something hard, but there may be other roles that would be better you might suggest.
Looking for thoughts on a 500 point stand alone patrol detatchment for Escallation, and a 500 to 1000 (maybe 750) batallion drop in to go alongside a guard army. I usually play mechanized infantry with guard as catachan or steel legion.
This is also as much for fun as anything so coolness/aesthetics of units may win out over hypercompetitiveness for the sisters.
Any thoughts?
Guard has plenty of board control and guns so howabout use sisters for melee? Bloody rose vanquard(rather than patrol) could be pretty nasty. Blender canoness with relic chainsword and null rod(for some anti psyker ability. -1 to cast for enemy nearby), 10 zephyr, 1-2 repentia units in rhino's and imagifier could be one hell of a punch. 626 pts. 36 pts for missionary(or 30 for preacher) for extra attack if you want.
Those repentia will munch through pretty much anything. Fully buffed up they pretty much one shot knight even. And primaris marine units will just melt in their face if they get the charge(that canoness btw can munch through any 2 wound marine squad without invulnerable save on her own as well...)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/31 20:15:40
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2020/05/31 22:01:12
Subject: Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: The most important things IG bring to the table that you don't have is indirect fire and range. As a Sisters player, you lack the ability to meaningfully threaten the enemy backfield at all in some deployments, and have no NLoS systems for shooting people off objectives.
So consider emphasizing range and IF capabilities in your IG detachment: Manticores, Basilisks, Wyverns; and maybe some Tank Commanders.
Sisters are better "cheap troops" than Guardsmen and just generally massively better as infantry, so Sisters should be your objective-holders and shock troops.
So I'm intrigued by the idea. Would you recommend trying cheap as possible battle sisters squads as the core? I'm still checking out all the units. I also like the idea of the Melee group tneva82 suggested. Will have a look at the points efficiency and trades for the sisters vs bullgryns, but even if it's just a wash, I still like the idea of bringing something other than the standard expected guard combos.
Will do some potential list cogitation
2020/05/31 23:34:13
Subject: Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: The most important things IG bring to the table that you don't have is indirect fire and range. As a Sisters player, you lack the ability to meaningfully threaten the enemy backfield at all in some deployments, and have no NLoS systems for shooting people off objectives.
So consider emphasizing range and IF capabilities in your IG detachment: Manticores, Basilisks, Wyverns; and maybe some Tank Commanders.
Sisters are better "cheap troops" than Guardsmen and just generally massively better as infantry, so Sisters should be your objective-holders and shock troops.
So I'm intrigued by the idea. Would you recommend trying cheap as possible battle sisters squads as the core? I'm still checking out all the units. I also like the idea of the Melee group tneva82 suggested. Will have a look at the points efficiency and trades for the sisters vs bullgryns, but even if it's just a wash, I still like the idea of bringing something other than the standard expected guard combos.
Will do some potential list cogitation
Sisters of Battle do not, period, have indirect fire weapons or weapons that can reach further than 48" [this is why Exorcists are essential in almost every Sisters list; they're the only unit that has 48" range and can manifest serious T1 threat especially after the nerf to Doms in the new codex]. If you're bring Guard to support your Sisters, then that's the first capability you're looking at for your supporting IG: sniping out critical enemy backfield units you'd otherwise just have to take punishment jfrom and blasting enemy backfield objective holders [especially Engineers in ITC]. Ordnance Batteries can also use Suppression Fire to protect your melee units like Repentia from overwatch.
As for the line infantry element, trade off what roles you want the infantry for and what they're going to do to select them. You're going to have at least 3 IG Riflemen squads and 3 Battle Sisters squads, so to some degree you're going to have both units the question is what you're going to do with them. BSS are more resilient than Guardsmen and have more defensive buffs available, but Guardsmen are better offensively than Sisters and have better offensive buffs.
After that, the bulk of your non-troops Sisters units are pretty much all good melee or very-short-ranged-shooting infantry units [Celestians, Zephyrim, Seraphim, Repentia, Arcos, etc.].
When constructing your list, consider the capability you need to have to allow you to complete your victory objectives and prevent the enemy from completing yours. Select units that best fulfill that required capability.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/05/31 23:39:03
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2020/06/01 01:30:46
Subject: Re:Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
So this may be a pile of nonsense, especially with me not knowing the sister's codex, but I have a sense something in this direction might be interesting to try:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [28 PL, 440pts] ++ + Configuration + Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose
Your spearhead detachment is fishy. It has 1 too many troops, or if it was intended to be a battalion, it has 1 too many HS options.
Also, what do your Rhinos do? I can't see the units they carry. Those points could at least be better spent on a Seraphim squad or something.
It might be worth changing the IG detachment to a Battalion and dropping one of the HS's [hydra platform, probably].
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2020/06/01 02:49:26
Subject: Re:Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Your spearhead detachment is fishy. It has 1 too many troops, or if it was intended to be a battalion, it has 1 too many HS options.
Also, what do your Rhinos do? I can't see the units they carry. Those points could at least be better spent on a Seraphim squad or something.
It might be worth changing the IG detachment to a Battalion and dropping one of the HS's [hydra platform, probably].
Hrm... you're right, battle scribe didn't flag the extra troop. HS should be ok with 6 choices. I think you're right about running it as a battalion as I think of it.
My thought for the Rhinos was to get some of the battle sisters up close to forward objectives in a hurry, while the rest cover them. I typically use Dakka Chimeras to get guard up deep and then support them on objectives. Some of the guard split to screen the artillery and follow the tanks in (since the tanks will be moving at half speed). Agree on dropping the Hydra. I think I had it in there as a mental note to trade out with wyvern based on what the local meta is doing. Lot of fly units here last we played.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/06/01 03:00:38
2020/06/01 03:49:28
Subject: Re:Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
So this may be a pile of nonsense, especially with me not knowing the sister's codex, but I have a sense something in this direction might be interesting to try:
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adepta Sororitas) [28 PL, 440pts] ++ + Configuration + Order Convictions: Order: Bloody Rose
There is a lot a don't like about this list or needs refinement.
1. Bare bones Battle Sisters squads: Every Battle Sister Superior should have a Blotgun, Bolt Pistol, and Chainsword. The Chainsword is free, so take it. It is also seriously worth looking for 4 points a squad to upgrade two sisters to storm bolters. If you can't find the points, that is fine, but you should look around for them.
2. The Bloody Rose detachment: This detachment has two combat units, the Canoness and the Zephyrim. It also has an Imagifier who will have a heck of a time being where you want her to be useful. I think this detachment needs to be seriously reconsidered. If you are going to bring a close combat detachment, bring close combat units and a way for them to get where they are going. Maybe a Vanguard of Canoness, Missionary/Preacher, Imagifier, Celestians/Repentia, Zephryim, and a Rhino will get you a good close combat element. The minimum battle sisters squads just don't help.
3. The Valorous Heart Detachment: Is missing the lynchpin unit, a Tale of the Stoic Imagifier to make the units ignore AP -2. I'm also not sure the purpose of the Missionary expect as a compulsory HQ choice. Finally, the Retributor squad would be better off traded for another Punisher Tank Commander with Heavy Bolter sponsons so much more firepower for just under twice the cost.
2020/06/01 17:11:04
Subject: Re:Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
Thank you. This helps me prioritize what to look at.
ETA: Wondering if its better to drop it down to one battalion of Sisters with Valorous Heart. Assuming we were trying to give them the job of contesting and holding forward objectives, what would you recommend tweaking for them?
Currently thinking 4 battle sisters squads updated as suggested above with chainsword on superior, and 2 storm bolters per squad, stoic imagifier, 2 rinos to get them up.
There's then room for a vanguard from bloody rose with cannoness, imagifyer, 9 model repenta squad, and one zeraphim (Assuming I go 2 tank commanders, 2 executioners, 2 basilisks, and a demolisher for guard armor). but I wonder if that's a good counter charge group with that content, or if its better to spend elsewhere. Will keep playing with it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As a different take and trying to simplify, here's a thought on a <500 point drive in batallion to go grab and contest some forward ground.
The rest would be spent on Guard, possibly Catachan who might take the missionary with them since he can give them extra attacks to their infantry if/when they get into melee (probably while screening tanks, expecting that's still a thing in 9th)
You'll need to drop a single Sister to fit into your transports, and with the points you can choose between an inferno pistol and a blessed blade for your Canoness. Drop the other extra Sister and you can have both. I'd go BB as S5 makes her much more viable in melee. Some melta somewhere in the list will be a nice use for your Miracle Dice... have your Canoness fall back from a sketchy melee and one-shot her foe with the fall back and shoot strat.
In general that's a nice amount of Dakka for the points and will be hard for most armies to shift, as long as all the AT and countercharge threats come from somewhere else.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On your other iteration, I'll echo what alextroy said. The Retributers bring less to your list for the points... swap them for Dominions or Celestians. Bloody Rose makes a great Vanguard as the Order does more for Elites than anyone else. BR Battle Sisters can feel nice and punchy, but I'd rather have a slightly smaller number of Celestians for 1 point more. Valorous Heart is where you want your bodies. The Heroine in the Making upgrade for an Imagifier to boost her aura and giving her the extra Tale (Stoic/Warrior) is worth a look if you're messing with BR
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/03 11:55:31
So based in the above here's the patrol detachment version I plan to go with for an Escallation type game (until the points are all changed with 9th), and part of this is based on the models I have on hand (Retributors for example). Since these guys are the total army I made sure to get some anti-tank and a way to get it into position and get some hard its via the multimelta/simulacrum/cherub. Will probably use something like this to experiment with and revisit after we understand the full impact of 9th edition. Thank you all for helping me understand Sisters better
That Retributor squad is awful. How did you end up with a squad like that? With one Heavy weapon, a multi-melts at that, and a Hand Flamer on the Superior, I'm not sure what the point of the squad. It would probably be better as a Celestian Squad that hands out with the Canonnes for full rerolls to HIt.
2020/06/07 19:30:00
Subject: Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
cannoness beatstick as you have her 54 2 sisters 5 girl squads with 2 storm bolter and 1 maul each 1 sisters 5 girl squad with 2 storm bolter 1 hospitaler 1 imagifier with tale of the stoic and (-1 cp) tale of the warrior ALSO! 1 preacherman 1 inquisitor (can be female) with house malleus, (-1 cp) for second psyker activation per round and second deny. 2 rhinos as you have them.
If I am remembering right the whole group will be able to be safe inside rhinos and you can charge them all forward together that way.
2 basilisk, manticore, wyvern, engenseer 490 3x 6 crusaders 234 ministerium priest (index) with poweraxe 40 3 x 10 imperial gaurd troops with a grenade launcher in each squad 129 1 ogrym bodygaurds (I think that 56 with mauls and 2+saves ( character protectedly hide behind the crusaders, but give the crusaders a bit better "bite" on the countercharges) 3 astropaths (-1 to be hit, +1 to saves, and malstrom) 2 tank commander leman russ with hammer of sunderance cannon in one and battlecannon in the other, secondary weapon on both is a hull lascannon. 1 lord commisar with powerfist and boltpistol
Now this army will give people fits of angry rage trying to kill imperial gaurd screens, while the tanks behind them laugh and shoot. Sure, you could pack more kill into a lot of armies, but nothing is quite worth the look on a knight players face when his gallant kills only 1 crusader. Your psyker powers may not be legendary, but malstrom + castigate means your army has the ability to snipe characters with psyker powers, and do about 4 mw a turn that way to something that otherwise isn't easily dealt with.
Its a wierdo army to be sure, but I bet it would be awesome to see someone screaming in frustration and saying "fine, if I can't kill the gaurd, let me try to kill those sisters in cover..."
I have purposefully left it at 105 points shy of the 2000 point total. It might be useful to put in a second cannoness to make the sisters army a battalion before ninth (thus 13 command points at start) or it might be useful to drop the wyvern back to a third basilisk and put in a FOURTH basilisk as well -- a nice line of guns in the backfield. If a cannoness is bought, well, maybe a fourth 5 man squad of sisters with 2 more stormbolters?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2020/06/07 19:45:04
Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.
2020/06/09 21:09:19
Subject: Re:Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
alextroy wrote: That Retributor squad is awful. How did you end up with a squad like that? With one Heavy weapon, a multi-melts at that, and a Hand Flamer on the Superior, I'm not sure what the point of the squad. It would probably be better as a Celestian Squad that hands out with the Canonnes for full rerolls to HIt.
Fair critique on the Retributors. Celestines won't fit in the patrol detatchment with the imagifier and hospitaler. Would you drop the hospitaler for the Celestines, or add something else that isn't from the elite choices?
2020/06/09 21:29:29
Subject: Sisters list for Escallation and Ally with guard?
The hand flamer btw is 1 pts unlock for holy trinity if need be. 1 heavy weapon is bit of more issue though small point values hurt.
In bigger games retributors with multi melta can be quite nasty. If you have dialogus you can from 36" away shoot at d6+1 damage and can get 2 acts that are 6 on any 5+ MD...2 automatic 7 damage is pretty sweet.
