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To explain what EFCM means, it stands for Electro-Filament Countermeasures, and it is a new AdMech stratagem in the Engine War Psychic Awakening book.

Text here:

Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. Select one Archaeopter unit equipped with a command uplink from your army. Until the start of your next turn, enemy models aura abilities have no effect whilst within 6" of that unit.

I was looking at this stratagem, and I was thinking of what auras I wanted to shut down. Then I realized I was not sure what an aura was.

Per the rulebook:

Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

Which sounds massively broad. So I did a search of all FAQs, and I found this in the Space Wolves FAQ:

In addition, if your Warlord is a Character, increase the range of any aura abilities they have by 3" (e.g. the Great Wolf and Jarl of Fenris), excluding Explodes, Healing Balms, Battlesmith, this Warlord Trait, abilities of Relics of the Fang and effects of psychic powers.

It really does seem that the designers consider auras to be much broader than most people think. They include Explode, Repair/Heal abilities... literally any ability that has a "within a given range" requirement.

Am I wrong?

--

So Montka/Kauyon are aura abilities; I think many people believed so even without the above Space Wolves FAQ. (So this is technically a separate question.)

Now, Montka/Kauyon are unique in that they are auras that apply their effects to the units around the Commander WHEN DECLARED. This is why Riptides can get Montka then advance across the battlefield and still shoot.

Which means if I were to suicide park my Copter within 6" of their Commander on turn one and use ECFM, then this means Montka/Kauyon can be declared, but it would have no effect that turn. If a Riptide advances, it cannot shoot at all, even if the Commander exits the 6" of my Copter.

Because Tau definitely cannot have it both ways. Either it applies the effect upon declaration while in range and lasts for the rest of the turn, or they cannot do what they have been doing for years now.

Am I wrong?

 Suzuteo wrote:
So I did a search of all FAQs, and I found this in the Space Wolves FAQ:

In addition, if your Warlord is a Character, increase the range of any aura abilities they have by 3" (e.g. the Great Wolf and Jarl of Fenris), excluding Explodes, Healing Balms, Battlesmith, this Warlord Trait, abilities of Relics of the Fang and effects of psychic powers.

It really does seem that the designers consider auras to be much broader than most people think. They include Explode, Repair/Heal abilities... literally any ability that has a "within a given range" requirement.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. It says excluding, not including. In addition, the SW FAQ above only applies to SW, because it mentions specific SW rules, not general ones.

 Suzuteo wrote:

So Montka/Kauyon are aura abilities; I think many people believed so even without the above Space Wolves FAQ. (So this is technically a separate question.)

Now, Montka/Kauyon are unique in that they are auras that apply their effects to the units around the Commander WHEN DECLARED. This is why Riptides can get Montka then advance across the battlefield and still shoot.

Which means if I were to suicide park my Copter within 6" of their Commander on turn one and use ECFM, then this means Montka/Kauyon can be declared, but it would have no effect that turn. If a Riptide advances, it cannot shoot at all, even if the Commander exits the 6" of my Copter.

Because Tau definitely cannot have it both ways. Either it applies the effect upon declaration while in range and lasts for the rest of the turn, or they cannot do what they have been doing for years now.

Am I wrong?

You can shut down Montka/Kauyon with EFCM, because it fits the description the core rules, its an aura ability.

Why would you exclude an ability if it's not an aura?

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, you are wrong. It says excluding, not including. In addition, the SW FAQ above only applies to SW, because it mentions specific SW rules, not general ones.

As stated above, the FAQ implies that they are aura abilities, which is why the designers felt that they had to be excluded from the effects of this rule.

Because Explodes is technically an Aura ability based on the definition of Aura Abilities.

It's why the Guard WLT somehow makes Tank Commanders explode biggerer.

So I would say, yes, until otherwise states EFCM shut down Master of War.

Of course this relies on you going first and a lack of proper screening by the tau player allowing you to get close enough.

I also think the tau player might be more concerned you turned the shield drones off....

I'd bet the tau player would take losing kayun over getting an ork bommer dropped on their head for 3MW per drone unit - which requires the same kind of screening.

Denying space for flyers to land will just become part of the things you need to consider when deploying.

U02dah4 wrote:


I also think the tau player might be more concerned you turned the shield drones off....

Yes, saviour protocols is also an aura ability. But tau players usually have lots of shield drones. Its unlikely you will be able to position your copter within 6" of all shield drones.

All no - but turning a patch off to leave a couple of key units vulnerable is acheivable and that could result a decent reduction in firepower accross the game

Okay, I'll play devils advocate but first I would ask how much this stratagem costs to play?

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:
Okay, I'll play devils advocate but first I would ask how much this stratagem costs to play?

Andrew

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/26/new-rules-for-the-adeptus-mechanicusgw-homepage-post-3/ 1CP

No one about?

Okay I have concerns as to this stratagem and its ability. If the sole qualifier for an aura is that it affects units within x" then is has the ability to shut everything down.

That may be a teensy bit hyperbolic but not that far off. Blessings of the omniissiah, Litanies, strategems as well. Cluster Mines come to mind. Psychic hoods! An arguement could be made for deny the witch being stopped. Voice of Command, the Sisters Battle Sanctum. Ork waaagh of any flavour. KFFs. Every bodyguard rule currently written.

Many abilities in this game has an effect on units within x" and have rules written to that formula. The last strategem that had that level of power was Agents of Vect and that was 4cp and you had to have Vect or his cronies in your army and on the board. So unless this has the same points costs and conditions then I think the op is over-reaching the power of this.

However, this is GW we're talking about and it may be that they seriously want such an overpowered ability, and aura may be defined differently in 9th, (Hey a glossary of terms! Nah its GW.) And this has been written with that in mind.

Considering the balance I have to tend to over reach rather than this level of broken.

Cheers

Andrew


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ta BCB. That will be fixed pretty quickly. No way that that is worth 1 CP.

it doesn't shut down the battle sanctum. That becomes terrain after deployment and so it's rules don't count as your opponents auras

most of thats more a strategy point than a rules question but it seems balanced more in that the units are a little overpriced

you have to be within 6 to shut things down so you can zone people away from key auras with screening as many would vs flying lists normally. the models its on arn't the most gun efficient so i wouldn't be to worried you will see them everywhere

just take 100 kroot guard or plaguebearers and they wont get close

You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

I have my fingers crossed for Aura being one of those things they fix in 9th Edition, namely defining which specific rules are aura much like they've already said they will do with Blast weapons.

You're blowing this way out of proportion.

First of all, you can't use this if you take the Chaff Launchers. That cuts your survivablity in half.

Secondly, you can just kill the Archaeopter with your long range stuff and now your auras are back online.

Thirdly, you could just, ya know, scoot 2" backwards and now your auras are turned back on. In fact, as long as you have 5" of movement, you can just move out of range of it the majority of the time.

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

Kaneda88 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

You would think that, but by the definition of aura in the original post, orders are an aura. They are issued to units within a 6" bubble and are therefore an aura.

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

You would think that, but by the definition of aura in the original post, orders are an aura. They are issued to units within a 6" bubble and are therefore an aura.

Andrew

They target one unit within range, Auras target every unit in range. Otherwise charging would be an ‘Aura’...

 BaconCatBug wrote:
You're blowing this way out of proportion.

First of all, you can't use this if you take the Chaff Launchers. That cuts your survivablity in half.

Secondly, you can just kill the Archaeopter with your long range stuff and now your auras are back online.

Thirdly, you could just, ya know, scoot 2" backwards and now your auras are turned back on. In fact, as long as you have 5" of movement, you can just move out of range of it the majority of the time.

I do not deny a word of this, you are quite right. There are simple steps that can be taken to either deny use or to work round.

This is not a 'sky is falling' arguement to preserve my Tau. I stated that I would be a devils advocate. However you have to admit its vastly overpowered.

Andrew


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

You would think that, but by the definition of aura in the original post, orders are an aura. They are issued to units within a 6" bubble and are therefore an aura.

Andrew

They target one unit within range, Auras target every unit in range. Otherwise charging would be an ‘Aura’...

Makes no difference whether it affects one unit or ten, it has an area of effect.

You don't have chance to move out of its range before it's in effect.

The strategy is played at the end of the Admech movement phase so any "auras" are OFF until your movement phase and in the natural order of things only killing it in your fight phases of the Admechs turn will grant you any respite from its effects. But it's largely too late by then, damage is already done.

Chaos night lords have a similar stratagem, for 2CP. You select an enemy unit within 18", that unit cannot use its aura abilities, until the start of your next movement phase.

Isnt Montka/Kauyon declared at the start of the turn ?

Octovol wrote:
You don't have chance to move out of its range before it's in effect.

The strategy is played at the end of the Admech movement phase so any "auras" are OFF until your movement phase and in the natural order of things only killing it in your fight phases of the Admechs turn will grant you any respite from its effects. But it's largely too late by then, damage is already done.

Pretty sure the most important auras are the ones done in your own shooting phase. When you kill the Archaeopter with units that are out of range of the Aura killing effect anyway, the stratagem ceases to function because you can no longer measure to the Archaeopter. It doesn't matter that the stratagem lasts until the start of the Admech players turn, the stratagem requires you to measure to the Archaeopter and if it's dead, you can't do that, so it doesn't do anything.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Octovol wrote:
You don't have chance to move out of its range before it's in effect.

The strategy is played at the end of the Admech movement phase so any "auras" are OFF until your movement phase and in the natural order of things only killing it in your fight phases of the Admechs turn will grant you any respite from its effects. But it's largely too late by then, damage is already done.

Pretty sure the most important auras are the ones done in your own shooting phase. When you kill the Archaeopter with units that are out of range of the Aura killing effect anyway, the stratagem ceases to function because you can no longer measure to the Archaeopter. It doesn't matter that the stratagem lasts until the start of the Admech players turn, the stratagem requires you to measure to the Archaeopter and if it's dead, you can't do that, so it doesn't do anything.

That depends on your army I guess. Tau are in serious trouble without their drone auras, no invulns, no saviour protocols. Harlequins likewise have many auras that reduce incoming attack effectiveness. re-roll morale auras, banners, Ork KFF all sorts. There are probably as many defensive auras as offensive and if I were looking to shut down auras it wouldn't be less what you could do to me if you dont get rid of it and more what I could turn off to increase my own effectiveness.

 p5freak wrote:
Chaos night lords have a similar stratagem, for 2CP. You select an enemy unit within 18", that unit cannot use its aura abilities, until the start of your next movement phase.

Isnt Montka/Kauyon declared at the start of the turn ?

That's hilarious. NL gets a 2CP strat that affects 1 and AM gets a 1CP strat that affects everyone....

Montka/Kauyon is at the start of the turn so they cant move away from the copter.

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Robbie G could probably just give the Archaeopter doing it to him the finger with his Hand of Dominion and watch the gunfire from the gauntlet knock it out of the sky.And shutting down an entire IG army by being within 6" of one person before the entire army could unleash enough gunfire to take down the distraction would be pretty miraculous (and since it's not Adepta Sororitas throwing out the stratagem, the miracles would probably be in short supply).

U02dah4 wrote:
Of course this relies on you going first and a lack of proper screening by the tau player allowing you to get close enough.

I also think the tau player might be more concerned you turned the shield drones off....

You're right. Saviour Protocols is also an aura ability.

 p5freak wrote:
Yes, saviour protocols is also an aura ability. But tau players usually have lots of shield drones. Its unlikely you will be able to position your copter within 6" of all shield drones.

Saviour Protocols is on the unit being attacked, not the Drones.

EDIT: Scratch that. The rule is on both, so I would need to be in range of both to shut their auras down. Still, it buys me one turn without SP, which easily lets me kill off Riptides, Yhavra, etc.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:

Kaneda88 wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Shutting an ig army down? We are the less aura dependent army there is (orders are not auras by definition). We wouldn’t he very affected,

You would think that, but by the definition of aura in the original post, orders are an aura. They are issued to units within a 6" bubble and are therefore an aura.

Andrew

They target one unit within range, Auras target every unit in range. Otherwise charging would be an ‘Aura’...

Makes no difference whether it affects one unit or ten, it has an area of effect.

@Kaneda88
You're going to have to cite proof for that. RAW, any ability that has a "within a given range" requirement is an aura. And from the SW FAQ, it's RAI as well. And in practice, I have heard now that both FLG and NOVA have ruled pretty consistently in the same way.

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Kaneda88
You're going to have to cite proof for that. RAW, any ability that has a "within a given range" requirement is an aura. And from the SW FAQ, it's RAI as well. And in practice, I have heard now that both FLG and NOVA have ruled pretty consistently in the same way.

The definition between comas in my previous commant is verbatim from the rulebook, it is pretty clear to me it means abilitys that affect all units with x requirement in y range. The sw faq does not challenge that, all the examples follow what i’m saying, orders do not.

EDIT: nevermind healing balms and battlesmith also make you choose a single unit, my definition is still correct but the faq poses a problem.