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If it only affects a limited number of units or models, it isn't an aura. A contrary definition would say that any psychic buff - Guide, say - is an aura because it has a 24 inch range.

Auras can have limitations on the type of units they affect - i.e. only <Forge World>, only <infantry>, etc, but not on the number of units. Then it isn't an aura any more. This is based on the definition in the book itself. The Space Wolf FAQ is just stupidly thought out, but it only affects what it's actually talking about. You can't generalize from the specific FAQ contradicting the general definition and say that means the general definition is changed.

BRB Page 179 wrote:Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.
For example, a Lord of Contagion has the Nurgle’s Gift ability, which affects all DEATH GUARD models within 7" of him. As the Lord of Contagion is also a DEATH GUARD model, he benefits from this ability as well.

There is no requirement for Auras to affect "all" models, only "certain models within a given range". A rule that affects only 1 unit or model within range is technically an aura ability. Note the Death Guard example is exactly that, an example, and not an exhaustive list.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BRB Page 179 wrote:Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.
For example, a Lord of Contagion has the Nurgle’s Gift ability, which affects all DEATH GUARD models within 7" of him. As the Lord of Contagion is also a DEATH GUARD model, he benefits from this ability as well.

There is no requirement for Auras to affect "all" models, only "certain models within a given range". A rule that affects only 1 unit or model within range is technically an aura ability. Note the Death Guard example is exactly that, an example, and not an exhaustive list.

Certain models is clearly models that follow certain requirements otherwise litterally everything in this game from shooting to psychic power would be an aura since evrything uses distances.

Kaneda88 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BRB Page 179 wrote:Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect.
For example, a Lord of Contagion has the Nurgle’s Gift ability, which affects all DEATH GUARD models within 7" of him. As the Lord of Contagion is also a DEATH GUARD model, he benefits from this ability as well.

There is no requirement for Auras to affect "all" models, only "certain models within a given range". A rule that affects only 1 unit or model within range is technically an aura ability. Note the Death Guard example is exactly that, an example, and not an exhaustive list.

Certain models is clearly models that follow certain requirements otherwise litterally everything in this game from shooting to psychic power would be an aura since evrything uses distances.

The number of models can be a requirement.

Also, it only affects abilities. Shooting isn't an ability (the section on the datasheet called Abilities are abilities).

Do I think it's only meant to actually be abilities that radiate out in an Aura? Probably. Can I know that is what they "intended"? No. GW can't write rules properly.

So is Guide an aura?

I mean you can't say "it's not an aura because it's a psychic power," because some psychic powers clearly are auras, even though they aren't on the ability section of the datasheet. A psychic power that gives a 6+++ to every <x> within <y> is obviously an aura, for example.

@yukishiro1
I don't think any psychic power can be considered an aura ability, actually. There is nothing linking the two in the rules as written. I mean, technically, psychic powers aren't even a property of a unit.

I think a lot of people here are really hung up on the idea of an "aura" based on what they know from video games, but you can't rely on outside concepts for your understanding of rules in a different game.

yes and no

the manifesting of the psychic power is a psychic power not an aura so you can do so.

Once manifested the psychic power creates a 6+++ aura within x"

 Suzuteo wrote:
@yukishiro1
I don't think any psychic power can be considered an aura ability, actually. There is nothing linking the two in the rules as written. I mean, technically, psychic powers aren't even a property of a unit.

I think a lot of people here are really hung up on the idea of an "aura" based on what they know from video games, but you can't rely on outside concepts for your understanding of rules in a different game.

But that's just silly. Everyone knows that null zone is an aura, but by your logic, it wouldn't be.

A lot of spells use the term Target Unit. Would that not stop said ability from being an Aura since it is specifically targeting one unit? Again hopefully the definition of an AURA will be updated come 9th edition.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Also, it only affects abilities. Shooting isn't an ability (the section on the datasheet called Abilities are abilities).

There are lots of things that GW calls abilities.

Page 181 – Ignoring Wounds
Add the following as a boxout on this page:
‘Ignoring Wounds
Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore
the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g.
Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious
Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you
can only use one of those abilities each time the model
loses a wound.’

Automatically Appended Next Post:

U02dah4 wrote:
yes and no

the manifesting of the psychic power is a psychic power not an aura so you can do so.

Once manifested the psychic power creates a 6+++ aura within x"

Psychic powers are abilities. When they affect certain models within a given range they are aura abilities.

1. Choose Psyker and Power
Some models are noted as being a
Psyker on their datasheet. Psykers can
manifest their otherworldly abilities and
attempt to deny enemy sorceries.

I'm hoping discussions like this one will die a swift death due to the 9th Edition rules.

We can hope, but if GW was capable of writing good, consistent, non-loophole-filed rules, why haven't they been doing it all this time? Why wait for 9th?

The new PA books are at least as full of unclear sloppily-written rules as the rest of the 8th edition rules. So I wouldn't hold my breath that they weren't really trying all this time and are suddenly going to start being serious.

 alextroy wrote:
I'm hoping discussions like this one will die a swift death due to the 9th Edition rules.

You actually think GW will write clear, precise, non-ambiguous rules ??

yukishiro1 wrote:
But that's just silly. Everyone knows that null zone is an aura, but by your logic, it wouldn't be.

I will admit that I am not sure on this. An absence of evidence is not absence of evidence, as I say.

That being said, I take issue with the idea that EVERYONE knows this. Why is that? Does it say anywhere that Null Zone is an aura ability? Or is it because you play video games, and Null Zone feels like an aura from that context?

cody.d. wrote:
A lot of spells use the term Target Unit. Would that not stop said ability from being an Aura since it is specifically targeting one unit? Again hopefully the definition of an AURA will be updated come 9th edition.

No, they specifically list abilities that target units as examples of auras.

My interpretation of an aura is that it needs to be constantly active once in effect. So things like repairing, psychic powers, abilities etc that are activated on units within range arent auras.

Null zone IS an aura because once the litany is inspiring anything that moves in range is effected and anything that moves out of range is unaffacted.

Guide for example isn't because once activated the targetted unit has the effect applied to them wherever they move to. If it were an aura they would have to stay close to the source of the power.

Auras are areas constantly affected regions from a focal point. The rules may not back that definition up, but if you're thinking like a human being instead of someone trying to exploit a vague definition for advantage then it's pretty easy to see what is and isn't affected by this.

The question comes when two opposing Archeopters have them activated...do they cancel each others or does the one that is already activate prevent the other one from being active lol

Octovol wrote:
My interpretation of an aura is that it needs to be constantly active once in effect. So things like repairing, psychic powers, abilities etc that are activated on units within range arent auras.

What is this interpretation based on? Pretend nothing exists but the books. Where can I find text that supports this?

People keep telling me it is "common sense," but evidence for it seems seems very uncommon.

Octovol wrote:
The question comes when two opposing Archeopters have them activated...do they cancel each others or does the one that is already activate prevent the other one from being active lol

I don't think psychic powers or stratagems are considered aura abilities. "Aura abilities" refers to rules belonging to a unit specifically that have a "within a given range" requirement. That is all the textual support I can find for it, and the Space Wolves FAQ, FLG, and NOVA people seem to agree.

 Suzuteo wrote:

What is this interpretation based on? Pretend nothing exists but the books. Where can I find text that supports this?

People keep telling me it is "common sense," but evidence for it seems seems very uncommon.

No, sorry, that is not how the game rules are written.

Show me where in the rules my dice need to have sides numbered 1 to 6?

You absolutely need to make inferences about intentions outside the wording of the rules. Yes, it will be inconsistent sometimes, but that's what it is. Dont like it? Find a game that is written in rigorous logical terms, because this is not it.

 Stux wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:

What is this interpretation based on? Pretend nothing exists but the books. Where can I find text that supports this?

People keep telling me it is "common sense," but evidence for it seems seems very uncommon.

No, sorry, that is not how the game rules are written.

Show me where in the rules my dice need to have sides numbered 1 to 6?

You absolutely need to make inferences about intentions outside the wording of the rules. Yes, it will be inconsistent sometimes, but that's what it is. Dont like it? Find a game that is written in rigorous logical terms, because this is not it.

You make inferences only when you need to, not whenever you feel like it. I could infer that all the numbers are actually in base 60, so my Rhino has 60(Dec) wounds and not 10. But that is not needed for the game to function, whereas falling back to the dictionary definition of "roll" that makes sense is needed.

Octovol wrote:
My interpretation of an aura is that it needs to be constantly active once in effect. So things like repairing, psychic powers, abilities etc that are activated on units within range arent auras.

Null zone IS an aura because once the litany is inspiring anything that moves in range is effected and anything that moves out of range is unaffacted.

Guide for example isn't because once activated the targetted unit has the effect applied to them wherever they move to. If it were an aura they would have to stay close to the source of the power.

Auras are areas constantly affected regions from a focal point. The rules may not back that definition up, but if you're thinking like a human being instead of someone trying to exploit a vague definition for advantage then it's pretty easy to see what is and isn't affected by this.

The question comes when two opposing Archeopters have them activated...do they cancel each others or does the one that is already activate prevent the other one from being active lol

This interpretation makes sense to me although the two arceocopter questions is irrelevant because its resolved by simultaneous effects and the player whose turn it is determines which one applys first

U02dah4 wrote:

This interpretation makes sense to me although the two arceocopter questions is irrelevant because its resolved by simultaneous effects and the player whose turn it is determines which one applys first

You use the stratagem at the end of your movement phase and it lasts until the beginning of your next turn. The first player to use the stratagem would already have it up and going at the time the second player tries to use that stratagem. It's in no way simultaneous.

EDIT: The first player to pop the stratagem would keep the second player's stratagem from taking effect during the second player's turn. But, when the first player's stratagem wears off at the start of his next turn, the second player's stratagem would be in effect at that point, and if the first player uses the stratagem again it won't be in effect during the first player's turn unless he moved out of the area of effect of the 2nd player's stratagem. Player 1 would, however see his 2nd use of the stratagem start to take effect (if he was still within the area of effect) when Player 2's stratagem kicked off, so basically in a duelling case you can still use the stratagem, but if you're within the range of opereation of the enemy ECFM there's only an effect seen during the enemy's turn.

 AndrewC wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Chaos night lords have a similar stratagem, for 2CP. You select an enemy unit within 18", that unit cannot use its aura abilities, until the start of your next movement phase.

Isnt Montka/Kauyon declared at the start of the turn ?

That's hilarious. NL gets a 2CP strat that affects 1 and AM gets a 1CP strat that affects everyone....

Montka/Kauyon is at the start of the turn so they cant move away from the copter.

Andrew

Night lords have an 18" range on it. Admech has a 6" range that you can body block with a screen because the plane has a huge base

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 AndrewC wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Chaos night lords have a similar stratagem, for 2CP. You select an enemy unit within 18", that unit cannot use its aura abilities, until the start of your next movement phase.

Isnt Montka/Kauyon declared at the start of the turn ?

That's hilarious. NL gets a 2CP strat that affects 1 and AM gets a 1CP strat that affects everyone....

Montka/Kauyon is at the start of the turn so they cant move away from the copter.

Andrew

Night lords have an 18" range on it. Admech has a 6" range that you can body block with a screen because the plane has a huge base

Don't be too quick on that we don't have the 9th edition rules which could make it actually even more broken than it already seems.

Ice_can wrote:
Don't be too quick on that we don't have the 9th edition rules which could make it actually even more broken than it already seems.

Nono, that wont happen. PA books were written with 9th in mind. And 9th will be the best edition ever

 Suzuteo wrote:

Octovol wrote:
My interpretation of an aura is that it needs to be constantly active once in effect. So things like repairing, psychic powers, abilities etc that are activated on units within range arent auras.

What is this interpretation based on? Pretend nothing exists but the books. Where can I find text that supports this?

People keep telling me it is "common sense," but evidence for it seems seems very uncommon.

Octovol wrote:
The question comes when two opposing Archeopters have them activated...do they cancel each others or does the one that is already activate prevent the other one from being active lol

I don't think psychic powers or stratagems are considered aura abilities. "Aura abilities" refers to rules belonging to a unit specifically that have a "within a given range" requirement. That is all the textual support I can find for it, and the Space Wolves FAQ, FLG, and NOVA people seem to agree.

Space Wolf FAQ disagrees that the effects of stratagems aren't aura abilities.

Q: Are the effects of Stratagems such as Cloaked by the Storm
and Howl of the Great Pack considered to be aura abilities for
the purpose of the Saga of Majesty Warlord Trait?
A: Yes.

JakeSiren wrote:

Space Wolf FAQ disagrees that the effects of stratagems aren't aura abilities.

Q: Are the effects of Stratagems such as Cloaked by the Storm
and Howl of the Great Pack considered to be aura abilities for
the purpose of the Saga of Majesty Warlord Trait?
A: Yes.

Unfortunately they are only considered aura abilities for the purposes of the saga of majesty warlord trait. This doesnt answer whether they are considered aura abilities for stratagems like EFCM, or not.

@JakeSiren
Yeah, it's dumb, but when they are specific like that, it only applies to what they are being specific about. (BaconCatBug used to have a running list of these special snowflake rules, but I guess it got too long, so he had to stop.)

In fact, I would argue that the fact that they carve out an exception implies the opposite, that they are not normally considered aura abilities.

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

Space Wolf FAQ disagrees that the effects of stratagems aren't aura abilities.

Q: Are the effects of Stratagems such as Cloaked by the Storm
and Howl of the Great Pack considered to be aura abilities for
the purpose of the Saga of Majesty Warlord Trait?
A: Yes.

Unfortunately they are only considered aura abilities for the purposes of the saga of majesty warlord trait. This doesnt answer whether they are considered aura abilities for stratagems like EFCM, or not.

Sure, but the effects of the stratagem of Cloaked by the Storm and Howl of the Great Pack are considered as auras by the BRB definition anyway, so it's a clarification on interaction - they each give a unit abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

JakeSiren wrote:

Sure, but the effects of the stratagem of Cloaked by the Storm and Howl of the Great Pack are considered as auras by the BRB definition anyway, so it's a clarification on interaction - they each give a unit abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

There are a lot of abilities that affect certain models within a given range. By the rulebook definition smite is also an aura ability, because psychic powers are abilities, and smite affects certain models within a given range. Does EFCM shut down smite ?

 p5freak wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

Sure, but the effects of the stratagem of Cloaked by the Storm and Howl of the Great Pack are considered as auras by the BRB definition anyway, so it's a clarification on interaction - they each give a unit abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

There are a lot of abilities that affect certain models within a given range. By the rulebook definition smite is also an aura ability, because psychic powers are abilities, and smite affects certain models within a given range. Does EFCM shut down smite ?

Smite isn't an ability that a unit has, so by definition it can not be an aura.

You are also wrong about psychic powers being aura abilities. A psyker knows a number of psychic powers, and has the ability to attempt to manifest psychic powers. But that ability to manifest psychic power itself is not an aura. A manifested psychic power isn't an aura either as it is not an ability that belongs to a unit.

A psychic power can however grant an ability to a unit that affects certain models within a given range. That ability would be considered an aura.

 AndrewC wrote:
You know my thoughts on 100 kroot....

But my point still stands. 1 CP for that is vastly undercosted. For the payback you get. Shutting an entire IG army down turn one? Robbie G being useless?

Nah definite overreach.

Andrew

Well good luck getting near it. KFF on orks? Good luck getting that copter in movement phase within 6" of the mek. The bubble is 9" and tends to be filled with orks to benefit from the 5++ and the base of copter isn't that small...

BTW sanctum you only lose the morale boost/debuff vs chaos. Woo! Scary...not.