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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/05/four-sizes-fit-allgw-homepage-post-1/

The new 2000 point standard table is 4 kill team maps, 60"x44".

This is the first serious nerf that we see for the gunlines and also shows why now flyers need to get in and out of the table.

While this is going to be harsh for all those tables already prepared, this will be a boon for the smaller LGS that can now fit more tables.

The dimensions given are minimums. Very few people are going to change their layouts based on this adjustment to the ruleset.

Considering the genesis of this edition, i'm fairly sure that many TOs of popular events will go for the 66x40.

I've just gotten my 6x4 table ready to go, I won't be cutting it down for this new recommendation!

The missions tend to define the distance apart from one another, not the distance from the board edge (IE armies start 24" apart, not armies start within 12" of a board edge) so armies won't start closer together, they will just have less room to deploy in.

I will be holding off repainting my table until 9th drops and I can add the dimensions for the smaller tables as patterns on the board, so kill-team games will have small spaces to play on.

Sterling191 wrote:
The dimensions given are minimums.

The dimensions are product placement.

GW's own products hit these exact measurements.

Don't try to think this is anything but another attempt to sell something.

This wasn't done for the good of the game. This is GW's reaction to the recent explosion in people buying expensive 6x4 neoprene mats. No one bought their own neoprene mats (because they were 4x4 and more expensive than everyone else's 6x4 mats), so now they're just make the standard game size fit their slightly smaller mat products (like the boards that come with all the Killzone and Warcry sets) and make that the new standard.

Honestly it's genius.

You guys realise that there was nearly always 12" on the side of a table that was unused space apart from as a body-pile.. right?

6x4 tables are still going to be fine and around. Or are you expecting them to cut up every table at WW to shrink them too

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
The dimensions given are minimums.

The dimensions are product placement.

GW's own products hit these exact measurements.

Don't try to think this is anything but another attempt to sell something.

This wasn't done for the good of the game. This is GW's reaction to the recent explosion in people buying expensive 6x4 neoprene mats. No one bought their own neoprene mats (because they were 4x4 and more expensive than everyone else's 6x4 mats), so now they're just make the standard game size fit their slightly smaller mat products (like the boards that come with all the Killzone and Warcry sets) and make that the new standard.

Honestly it's genius.

I am just going to stick with the mats I have, and I have a feeling a lot of tournaments will as well because they don’t want to rebuy mats and boards to fit the minimum boards size GW implemented.

Spoletta wrote:
Considering the genesis of this edition, i'm fairly sure that many TOs of popular events will go for the 66x40.

What are you smoking? I Seriously have to ask that now, no TOnis going to start cutting up tables to shave them down to 5'6" and 3'4"
They will stick with 6x4 as GW have already implied they are doing.

I suppose in a game where fleeing is not a thing there really is no need for such depth.

Hey all H.B.M.C. is on a trollin mission. Nothing is changing as far as battlefield size is concerned.

Everyone getting mad about this being a scheme by GW to make you buy into their new table sizes – you know what the word "minimum" means, right?

 vim_the_good wrote:
Hey all H.B.M.C. is on a trollin mission. Nothing is changing as far as battlefield size is concerned.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 Nazrak wrote:
Everyone getting mad about this being a scheme by GW to make you buy into their new table sizes – you know what the word "minimum" means, right?

You know that's missing the point, right?

They have actually codified the minimum game size to match their weirdly proportioned products. "Minimum" will very quickly become "standard" over time.

If people don't think this is a reaction to the third part game mat market then they have short memories. They already did it when they started moving most things from 28mm bases (which had a massive third party scenic base market) to 32mm bases (which no one, at the time, made, because why would they?).

GW, at their most ruthless, are a lot like Apple. They will change standards so that they only things that work with their products are their accessories. This is just another example of that.

And I think it's amazing!

Remember that they are going to give a standard amount of terrain elements for each point value.

Guess for what area of table this standard will be?

Spoletta wrote:
Remember that they are going to give a standard amount of terrain elements for each point value.

Guess for what area of table this standard will be?

That's assuming it's a raw number, and not a percentage like they've done in the past.

Spoletta wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/05/four-sizes-fit-allgw-homepage-post-1/

The new 2000 point standard table is 4 kill team maps, 60"x44".

This is the first serious nerf that we see for the gunlines and also shows why now flyers need to get in and out of the table.

While this is going to be harsh for all those tables already prepared, this will be a boon for the smaller LGS that can now fit more tables.

No idea how this is a nerf to gunlines.

They'll be able to hit more stuff in the 1st turn, especially things that you could hide in your backline.

The only nerfs to gunlines that are relevant are:
- terrain placement
- shooting distance
- -1 to hit

Siegfriedfr wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/05/four-sizes-fit-allgw-homepage-post-1/

The new 2000 point standard table is 4 kill team maps, 60"x44".

This is the first serious nerf that we see for the gunlines and also shows why now flyers need to get in and out of the table.

While this is going to be harsh for all those tables already prepared, this will be a boon for the smaller LGS that can now fit more tables.

No idea how this is a nerf to gunlines.

They'll be able to hit more stuff in the 1st turn, especially things that you could hide in your backline.

The only nerfs to gunlines that are relevant are:
- terrain placement
- shooting distance
- -1 to hit

The distance between 2 deployments is the same, what changed is that now you have less area behind your deployment zone. That area where typically basilisks and similar stuff ends up being placed.

Feels like they are really trying to hit home that the game is KT - 40k - Apocalypse with this.

It'll be interesting to try it out. I am not against the idea in essence and will make it easier for some people with smaller tables to play at home maybe. A bit annoying for my Realms of Battle boards as they are kinda fixed size and in plastic.

The cool concept here though is that you can technically buy KT terrain packs and slowly build towards a larger table. A part of me feels like it's their way of trying to double dip a market(the KT mats would be reusable for 40k) and at the same time exclude 3rd party manufacturers.

However, the thing I feel the most is that they are really trying to get games to take less space so more people can play without having an access to a FLGS. My basic Ikea table is now close to the right size of a min size game board at this point.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
The dimensions given are minimums.

The dimensions are product placement.

GW's own products hit these exact measurements.

Don't try to think this is anything but another attempt to sell something.

This wasn't done for the good of the game. This is GW's reaction to the recent explosion in people buying expensive 6x4 neoprene mats. No one bought their own neoprene mats (because they were 4x4 and more expensive than everyone else's 6x4 mats), so now they're just make the standard game size fit their slightly smaller mat products (like the boards that come with all the Killzone and Warcry sets) and make that the new standard.

Honestly it's genius.

The old realm of battle is 2'x2' sections.
Moon Base is 65"x43"
The other one is 66"x45"

I can't actually find any of the mats for sale on their website.

So, GW conspired to promote a specific size, because they were upset about not selling their own 4x4, which....doesn't fit these sizes either? In the same breath where they give us free digital copies with every codex?

I think rather they decided to make it easy to carry forward from kill team with friends and have a quick board that still simulates a fair amount of terrain. It doesn't likely have anything to do with forcing sales on possibly the tiniest segment of their business.


I am otherwise curious to see what mission packs will set as the standard. Is GW playtesting on this size? What dynamics does it change? No man's land stays the same, but there certainly is less room for gunlines to go deep.

It doesn't seem like a big deal, just a minor QoL thing. The 6' x 4' tables will still be used (it's a common size of table), but now you won't be playing on the edges, which is better for model longevity. It also gives you a space to stage your models before a game, and/or a place to put casualties.

I'm really excited to see that they're activity having different missions for the different sizes of game!

This looks like it could help small clubs and stuff by letting Combat Ptrol finally be a viable thing!

The delineation between the different games sizes are going to be super helpful! It also means I can now play Small games at home without trying to wrangle a 4'x4' table or board in a small apartment.

Cant have them marines be out of range every so often thats so npe

For games at your LGS I'm happy to have missions supporting smaller table sizes. In casual settings table size really doesn't matter much to me, I'd rather have a better chance of getting a game in when the store is tight on space.

But if you're a tournament player I can see how table size matters more.

The question is, will tournaments adopt the new minimum table size or will they stick with 6x4?

EDIT: Oh ok, nevermind. Looks like Reece has confirmed that tournaments will be using the new minimum table size here. Hm.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2020/06/05/four-sizes-fit-all/

 slave.entity wrote:
For games at your LGS I'm happy to have missions supporting smaller table sizes. In casual settings table size really doesn't matter much to me, I'd rather have a better chance of getting a game in when the store is tight on space.

But if you're a tournament player I can see how table size matters more.

The question is, will tournaments adopt the new minimum table size or will they stick with 6x4?

EDIT: Oh ok, nevermind. Looks like Reece has confirmed that tournaments will be using the new minimum table size here. Hm.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2020/06/05/four-sizes-fit-all/

Having seen it cut out of a 6 x 4 it looks tiny.

Spoletta wrote:
This is the first serious nerf that we see for the gunlines ....

Reducing the width of the board by 4" is hardly a 'serious nerf' to anything.

But, as others have numerously pointed out, it's a minimum. Most people will carry right on using the 6x4 mats and tables they already have.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

If people don't think this is a reaction to the third part game mat market then they have short memories. They already did it when they started moving most things from 28mm bases (which had a massive third party scenic base market) to 32mm bases (which no one, at the time, made, because why would they?).

GW, at their most ruthless, are a lot like Apple. They will change standards so that they only things that work with their products are their accessories. This is just another example of that.

Honestly, I don't think it's as calculated as that. I mean, certainly GW re capable of that sort of directed malice, but IIRC the general opinion back when the Kill Team playmats were first released was that the odd size of them was simply due to box or production limitations, and using those odd sizes as a minimum recommendation is then nothing more than tying things more directly together.

If they were stipulating those specific boards sizes, I'd be more inclined to agree with your assessment... but in practice, all that this is going to do is allow people who have the Kill Team mats to use them for full size games, while also still allowing everyone to use their mats or existing boards.

I like this move from a convenience perspective. Very few tables that aren't purpose build seem to be 4' wide, which has been an obstacle for playing in places that are more general use.

From the tactical side though, I think there are already issues with the board being too small relative to the move speed of units in the game, so like shrinking the board isn't good from that perspective.

If ITC adopts it, then basically the new standard table size in the US is going to be roughly 5x4 instead of 6x4. That's a pretty big change.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I like this move from a convenience perspective. Very few tables that aren't purpose build seem to be 4' wide, which has been an obstacle for playing in places that are more general use..

Has it really, though?

I've played a lot of games on a 3' wide kitchen table over the years. You just cut the 'missing' space off the back end of the deployment zone.


A mate and I also played a series of rather memorable (old)Necromunda games on a round coffee table, using whatever we could scrounge from around the house for terrain.

 insaniak wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I like this move from a convenience perspective. Very few tables that aren't purpose build seem to be 4' wide, which has been an obstacle for playing in places that are more general use..

Has it really, though?

I've played a lot of games on a 3' wide kitchen table over the years. You just cut the 'missing' space off the back end of the deployment zone.


A mate and I also played a series of rather memorable (old)Necromunda games on a round coffee table, using whatever we could scrounge from around the house for terrain.

Yeah, that's what we do too when we have this problem. Cut off the back line of the deploy area. But there's still issues with arranging objectives.

My question is why reduce the table size anyways? Seems strange.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
The dimensions given are minimums.

The dimensions are product placement.

GW's own products hit these exact measurements.

Don't try to think this is anything but another attempt to sell something.

This wasn't done for the good of the game. This is GW's reaction to the recent explosion in people buying expensive 6x4 neoprene mats. No one bought their own neoprene mats (because they were 4x4 and more expensive than everyone else's 6x4 mats), so now they're just make the standard game size fit their slightly smaller mat products (like the boards that come with all the Killzone and Warcry sets) and make that the new standard.

Honestly it's genius.

The old realm of battle is 2'x2' sections.
Moon Base is 65"x43"
The other one is 66"x45"

I can't actually find any of the mats for sale on their website.

So, GW conspired to promote a specific size, because they were upset about not selling their own 4x4, which....doesn't fit these sizes either? In the same breath where they give us free digital copies with every codex?

I think rather they decided to make it easy to carry forward from kill team with friends and have a quick board that still simulates a fair amount of terrain. It doesn't likely have anything to do with forcing sales on possibly the tiniest segment of their business.


I am otherwise curious to see what mission packs will set as the standard. Is GW playtesting on this size? What dynamics does it change? No man's land stays the same, but there certainly is less room for gunlines to go deep.

and even if it IS product placement why SHOU;DN'T GW use their own damn battle mats etc as their reccomended size?