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So a couple people I know are interested in seeing WH40k. I’ve agreed to make 2 armies for a 500pt game for them. It’ll be Dark Angels vs Tyranids. I’d like 2 roughly fair armies and I will be leaving psykers out. Below are the 2 lists I’ve come up with, but I’m definitely open to suggestions. Key note, I only have 8 genestealers currently. Thanks in advance.
Don't worry "too" much about balance for demo games. If anything if there's any imbalance you can give them the stronger army (unless they show distinct preference for a force).
In a demo game its more about getting a feel for the rules. It might not even finish a full 6 turns before you pause and stop and start up again or start a bigger game to demo or they get the idea etc... Or you just run out of time.
Even if you put two mirror armies down you'll win more times than not because you've got experience and familiarity over them.
Instead I'd decide on what you're hoping to show - a demo that introduces the game as a means to teaching them how to play. At which point you might leave some elements out to introduce later.
If the demo is more showing them what happens then I'd try and include a variety of interesting roles, including psychers as that is a phase in the game.
If you're looking to avoid psykers, I hate to say but the Broodlord is a psyker...
Also you may want to reconsider that carnifex. Cool as it is, the marines have nothing outside of a single plasma gun and some plasma pistols to deal with it. Whereas the nid player should easily turn over the razorback with the carnifex and/or the genestealers and/or Broodlord.
Do you know what your sin is, Malcolm Reynolds?
Ah hell, I'm a fan of all seven.
But right now, I'm gonna have to go with wrath.
I completely forgot the broodlord was a psyker, it’s been awhile since I played my nids. I’ll revamp and repost a new Nid list. Thanks for the help so far
I would maybe reduce the number of different types of troops the tyranid player has, 4 different types of guy in squads of 8-20 is a lot to remember.
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You should wait with your demo game until 9E is available. Otherwise you are teaching these guys new rules in four weeks.
Apart from that, I'm pretty sure "fair" games at 500 are very difficult to achieve. Your SM list is about as tame as you can get, and it will still wipe the floor with the Nids, especially in 9E when the Razorback becomes an invincible bunker that can't be shut down in the context of this fight. If one side has a vehicle, the other should too (or AT weapons). Problem is that adding a Carnifex doesn't really change anything.
Do you have access to other models apart from Nids? Necrons, CSM or DG should be good.
So first, congrats on introducing this fun hobby and background to some folks! I'll start with an apology if the below is what you had already thought of and for the length of this post.
I would suggest that a big part of an introduction game is showing folks the "wow, that's cool" side of the hobby and a beginning understanding of the game. To that end, I would think you could probably leave certain rules by the wayside for this game. In part, this echoes Acehilator's point about the new edition. From the previews, we can be reasonably certain that the stats (aside from points) of units are staying relatively constant and gameplay at the most basic level has some continuity; i.e. general phase and turn structure. Of course we've already seen some new changes, but those can probably be added in later for new players. On that point, I might suggest to leave out such things as chapter tactics, doctrines, and hive fleet adaptations. It's just another thing for newer folks to remember outside of the general game structure. You may also consider leaving out relics and warlord traits; they're just more to remember.
As to the lists themselves, I might be tempted to drop the razorback and possibly make the marine units and maybe the smaller gribblies a little less (10-12 per unit rather than 20). It's a balance between having too many units to manage and not having a whole unit lost from shooting or combat in a single phase. With the additional points on the marine side, maybe add in a small unit of Deathwing and since the game is about coolness and gameplay rather than listbuilding, maybe run it as a 3 man rather than 5 man squad. For the Tyranids, maybe a small warrior unit or a lictor.
Another potential consideration. The few times I've done demo games, the new folks really enjoyed the tactical considerations of their choices. To that end, maybe give each player 6 CP to start. Maybe, and this is more work for you Crazy Jay, narrow the number of stratagems for each side to 4-5 from each book for the balance of cool and too much to remember.
So first, congrats on introducing this fun hobby and background to some folks! I'll start with an apology if the below is what you had already thought of and for the length of this post.
I would suggest that a big part of an introduction game is showing folks the "wow, that's cool" side of the hobby and a beginning understanding of the game. To that end, I would think you could probably leave certain rules by the wayside for this game. In part, this echoes Acehilator's point about the new edition. From the previews, we can be reasonably certain that the stats (aside from points) of units are staying relatively constant and gameplay at the most basic level has some continuity; i.e. general phase and turn structure. Of course we've already seen some new changes, but those can probably be added in later for new players. On that point, I might suggest to leave out such things as chapter tactics, doctrines, and hive fleet adaptations. It's just another thing for newer folks to remember outside of the general game structure. You may also consider leaving out relics and warlord traits; they're just more to remember.
As to the lists themselves, I might be tempted to drop the razorback and possibly make the marine units and maybe the smaller gribblies a little less (10-12 per unit rather than 20). It's a balance between having too many units to manage and not having a whole unit lost from shooting or combat in a single phase. With the additional points on the marine side, maybe add in a small unit of Deathwing and since the game is about coolness and gameplay rather than listbuilding, maybe run it as a 3 man rather than 5 man squad. For the Tyranids, maybe a small warrior unit or a lictor.
Another potential consideration. The few times I've done demo games, the new folks really enjoyed the tactical considerations of their choices. To that end, maybe give each player 6 CP to start. Maybe, and this is more work for you Crazy Jay, narrow the number of stratagems for each side to 4-5 from each book for the balance of cool and too much to remember.
Hopefully those points help!
Respectfully,
Blackberry
All very good points. The level of the game I was trying to teach was movement with a tape measure on the table and then the basics of shooting and melee. One of the guys saw pictures of my nids and equated them to bugs from Starship Troops, so I was trying to emulate that. I wasn’t too worried about 9th being around the corner, the concepts I was going to show case aren’t likely to change. I’ll tinker with the lists, find something I like.
So first, congrats on introducing this fun hobby and background to some folks! I'll start with an apology if the below is what you had already thought of and for the length of this post.
I would suggest that a big part of an introduction game is showing folks the "wow, that's cool" side of the hobby and a beginning understanding of the game. To that end, I would think you could probably leave certain rules by the wayside for this game. In part, this echoes Acehilator's point about the new edition. From the previews, we can be reasonably certain that the stats (aside from points) of units are staying relatively constant and gameplay at the most basic level has some continuity; i.e. general phase and turn structure. Of course we've already seen some new changes, but those can probably be added in later for new players. On that point, I might suggest to leave out such things as chapter tactics, doctrines, and hive fleet adaptations. It's just another thing for newer folks to remember outside of the general game structure. You may also consider leaving out relics and warlord traits; they're just more to remember.
As to the lists themselves, I might be tempted to drop the razorback and possibly make the marine units and maybe the smaller gribblies a little less (10-12 per unit rather than 20). It's a balance between having too many units to manage and not having a whole unit lost from shooting or combat in a single phase. With the additional points on the marine side, maybe add in a small unit of Deathwing and since the game is about coolness and gameplay rather than listbuilding, maybe run it as a 3 man rather than 5 man squad. For the Tyranids, maybe a small warrior unit or a lictor.
Another potential consideration. The few times I've done demo games, the new folks really enjoyed the tactical considerations of their choices. To that end, maybe give each player 6 CP to start. Maybe, and this is more work for you Crazy Jay, narrow the number of stratagems for each side to 4-5 from each book for the balance of cool and too much to remember.
Hopefully those points help!
Respectfully,
Blackberry
All very good points. The level of the game I was trying to teach was movement with a tape measure on the table and then the basics of shooting and melee. One of the guys saw pictures of my nids and equated them to bugs from Starship Troops, so I was trying to emulate that. I wasn’t too worried about 9th being around the corner, the concepts I was going to show case aren’t likely to change. I’ll tinker with the lists, find something I like.
Sounds like it should be a fun teaching game! I can see the nids reminding people of Starship Troopers.
If its the basics of the mechanics you want to teach, I'd suggest only using the Core strategems and not any of the faction specific ones (think of it as playing 8th using the index lists instead of the codex lists). I don't see a problem with having the Razorback with Heavy bolters, yes it is very effective against the Tyranid list you have, but if the players are going in with an open mind and thinking of Starship troopers then this seems appropriate.
If the game is mostly to get a feel for the mechanics of moving and measuring, shooting and melee then I think balance is less important unless one of the players is likely to be a sore loser. If that's the case you could have them play the game twice, the second time swapping armies. If the space marines seem to be too powerful you could always let the tyranid player recycle their units and play a meat grinder scenario with the Space Marines trying to hold of an endless horde of gribblies.
I would swap out the 2nd H-gaunts and put the carnifex in there to familiarize target selection (i.e. putting carnifex against the razorback since nothing else in the nid's list can reliably damage the T7 Razorback).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/22 15:25:02
Alright is I think the final lists. I’ll try to run the game twice and give each them a chance with each army. I put the carnifex back in but gave them DeathWing Knights to fight. I think I will skip warlord traits, hive fleet/chapter tactics and only use core strategems.
