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OK, having looked through a lot of the PA series fluff/Echoes of Awakening, much of it hinted at the rise of the Necrons, something we now know to be a reality. Throughout, these little stories have heralded new models, updates etc. However, not present, but also hinted extensively throughout the series was the presence of the Emperor's Children. They're in both Faith and Fury and Ritual of the Damned, I don't own Blood of Baal, Greater Good or Saga of the Beast so any help there? Pretty sure I heard others say more stories exist.

Anyway, I do believe we will see them fairly early in the rlease schedule, and possibly Fulgrim among them, maybe at Christmas (they did state something big at/by Christmas in one of the streams).

edit: And if these stories continue to provide info for future releases, it bodes well for Eldar, seeing new kits for Scorpions, Warp Spiders and Shining Spears.

 bullyboy wrote:
OK, having looked through a lot of the PA series fluff/Echoes of Awakening, much of it hinted at the rise of the Necrons, something we now know to be a reality. Throughout, these little stories have heralded new models, updates etc. However, not present, but also hinted extensively throughout the series was the presence of the Emperor's Children. They're in both Faith and Fury and Ritual of the Damned, I don't own Blood of Baal, Greater Good or Saga of the Beast so any help there? Pretty sure I heard others say more stories exist.

Anyway, I do believe we will see them fairly early in the rlease schedule, and possibly Fulgrim among them, maybe at Christmas (they did state something big at/by Christmas in one of the streams).

edit: And if these stories continue to provide info for future releases, it bodes well for Eldar, seeing new kits for Scorpions, Warp Spiders and Shining Spears.

Slaanesh be praised if it they see a release this version...

my wallet has begun to ache for some snakey Fulgrim insanity.

Noise, Noise Noise.......Marine!!!!

Fulgrim is teased a lot throughout Phoenix Rising too, making regular reference to his presence in several warzones.

I know a lot of people hate primarchs being brought back, but still I'll be a little bit sad if Fulgrim comes back before Russ or Lion. Or any loyalist that feasibly could come back.

Fulgrim was teased throughout most books of 8th Edition, right from the start. That's why I thought Emperor's Children would be released pretty soon. They're still not here though, which makes me hesitant to think they'll come soon now. I wouldn't mind it. Every faction is saturated with PA rules now, they shouldn't restart all the Codizes again, if they branch out some of the minor factions I'm cool with it.

Yeah, did the same with Fallen through 8e too. Teased that there was a big plot to unfold there (which is a big part of what fueled rumours of the Lion returning), but again nothing yet has come of it.

If they followed through on the Fallen stuff, one of the most exciting prospects would be a model for Marbas, the lion headed Fallen daemon prince! Could imagine that being awesome.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Every faction is saturated with PA rules now, they shouldn't restart all the Codizes again, if they branch out some of the minor factions I'm cool with it.

Some of the factions basically just got a name generator from PA

I'd love to see an EC release, and I'm sure Fulgrim would look amazing. That said, I agree that there should probably be another loyalist Primarch first.

The story line of primogeniter is all about some old HH EC trying to rebuild the legion which is necessary cannon really to support a codex release. Haven’t finished this series of books but it just supports the idea that GW are creating a story arc that allows them to release EC as a legion.

 bullyboy wrote:
OK, having looked through a lot of the PA series fluff/Echoes of Awakening, much of it hinted at the rise of the Necrons, something we now know to be a reality. Throughout, these little stories have heralded new models, updates etc. However, not present, but also hinted extensively throughout the series was the presence of the Emperor's Children. They're in both Faith and Fury and Ritual of the Damned, I don't own Blood of Baal, Greater Good or Saga of the Beast so any help there? Pretty sure I heard others say more stories exist.

Anyway, I do believe we will see them fairly early in the rlease schedule, and possibly Fulgrim among them, maybe at Christmas (they did state something big at/by Christmas in one of the streams).

edit: And if these stories continue to provide info for future releases, it bodes well for Eldar, seeing new kits for Scorpions, Warp Spiders and Shining Spears.

It would be nicer to get another loyalist primarch to even up the score, before we get a third traitor primarch.

 Togusa wrote:

It would be nicer to get another loyalist primarch to even up the score, before we get a third traitor primarch.

What do you mean? Guilliman already outnumbers them 1 : 2!

I have to admit with all the fabious bile books and the inclusion of fulgrim (edit) in the last one I'm half expecting the emperors children to be the chaos marine poster boys of 9th.

but at the same time i wonder if fulcrum might come in as a demons character rather than a CSM one as in the fluff he does keep saying he's done with the legion

 Stux wrote:
I know a lot of people hate primarchs being brought back, but still I'll be a little bit sad if Fulgrim comes back before Russ or Lion. Or any loyalist that feasibly could come back.

I think Vulkan makes the most sense on the loyalist side.

 Togusa wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
OK, having looked through a lot of the PA series fluff/Echoes of Awakening, much of it hinted at the rise of the Necrons, something we now know to be a reality. Throughout, these little stories have heralded new models, updates etc. However, not present, but also hinted extensively throughout the series was the presence of the Emperor's Children. They're in both Faith and Fury and Ritual of the Damned, I don't own Blood of Baal, Greater Good or Saga of the Beast so any help there? Pretty sure I heard others say more stories exist.

Anyway, I do believe we will see them fairly early in the rlease schedule, and possibly Fulgrim among them, maybe at Christmas (they did state something big at/by Christmas in one of the streams).

edit: And if these stories continue to provide info for future releases, it bodes well for Eldar, seeing new kits for Scorpions, Warp Spiders and Shining Spears.

It would be nicer to get another loyalist primarch to even up the score, before we get a third traitor primarch.

I'd tend to disagree, Things should go from bad(magnus) to worse(morty) to horrible(fulgrim) to absolute SHTF(Angron).
Now I would say that when either the Impetuous Child or the Angry dude come back, another loyalist should return. I like the idea of being outnumbered/outclassesd and a heroic return of Russ, Vulkan, Jaghtai, etc.




Last thing we need is the most chaosy primarch coming back....The worst traitor of them all....the Lion. he can just continue his little kittykat nap in perpetuity. Or better yet, be purged by the Righteous fire of true Loyal Sons of the Emperor.

I actually think that The Lion would be the perfect antidote to Guilliman and Cawl.

Both Emperor's Children and Fulgrim and Warp Spiders and their Primarch were teased but not released in the PA books.

I would love to see both, tbh.

goundry wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

It would be nicer to get another loyalist primarch to even up the score, before we get a third traitor primarch.

What do you mean? Guilliman already outnumbers them 1 : 2!

I have to admit with all the fabious bile books and the inclusion of fulgrim (edit) in the last one I'm half expecting the emperors children to be the chaos marine poster boys of 9th.

but at the same time i wonder if fulcrum might come in as a demons character rather than a CSM one as in the fluff he does keep saying he's done with the legion

I like this idea and it would give the deamons codex a real character that isn’t essentially a greatest demon of a god. And the EC legion are mega angry with fulgrim and think he led them down a path that sacrificed them for his own gain

 harlokin wrote:
I actually think that The Lion would be the perfect antidote to Guilliman and Cawl.

I literally could not tell you any single trait of The Lion beyond the fact that his name is Lion El'Johnson and he is the chapter master of the dark angels, so....sure?

Honestly, it's like that for most loyalist primarchs. They all kind of blur together for me - I assume Mr. Raven Q. Guard is a bit emo, and I have seen memes of a golden man who likes to reinforce ground who I assume is Fistimus Imperio.

Is Lion El'Johnson the 1980s macho man randy savage that his name and title generally suggest that he should be? If not, do you figure there is narrative leeway to retcon him to have taken up that pastime sometime in the past 10,000 years of canonical time?

I’d like to see a third, and possibly fourth traitor primarch before we see another loyalist. Guilliman seems to be doing pretty well vs. the current two on the scene.

I’d love an Emperor’s Children release, I want noise marines that don’t have to wedge arms onto bodies that weren’t designed to take them. I’d also like some sword duellists that aren’t just a bunch of CSM with bolt pistols and chainswords.

the_scotsman wrote:


I literally could not tell you any single trait of The Lion beyond the fact that his name is Lion El'Johnson and he is the chapter master of the dark angels, so....sure?

He's sort of a cross between Hannibal Barca and Richard Dawkins...maybe.

the_scotsman wrote:

Is Lion El'Johnson the 1980s macho man randy savage that his name and title generally suggest that he should be? If not, do you figure there is narrative leeway to retcon him to have taken up that pastime sometime in the past 10,000 years of canonical time?

I'm sure it's absolutely possible, and should be done. He's named after Lionel Johnson, a boyfriend of Oscar Wilde, who wrote a poem called The Dark Angel. The Lion has apparently spent the last 10'000 sleeping under The Rock (named after a gay bar that used to be near GW HQ), but that's not to say that wrestling couldn't have happened.

 Togusa wrote:

 Stux wrote:
I know a lot of people hate primarchs being brought back, but still I'll be a little bit sad if Fulgrim comes back before Russ or Lion. Or any loyalist that feasibly could come back.

I think Vulkan makes the most sense on the loyalist side.

All 3 of those we've mentioned have merit to be honest.

Lion is literally just waiting for a plot hook to wake up, and I could see a lot of narrative potential in a power struggle between him and Guilliman, more so than you would have with Russ or Vulkan.

Not that G could control Russ, but I dont think Russ would be that bothered about being Lord Commander.

the_scotsman wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I actually think that The Lion would be the perfect antidote to Guilliman and Cawl.

I literally could not tell you any single trait of The Lion beyond the fact that his name is Lion El'Johnson and he is the chapter master of the dark angels, so....sure?

Honestly, it's like that for most loyalist primarchs. They all kind of blur together for me - I assume Mr. Raven Q. Guard is a bit emo, and I have seen memes of a golden man who likes to reinforce ground who I assume is Fistimus Imperio.

Is Lion El'Johnson the 1980s macho man randy savage that his name and title generally suggest that he should be? If not, do you figure there is narrative leeway to retcon him to have taken up that pastime sometime in the past 10,000 years of canonical time?

The lion is probably the single best warrior of all the primarchs and under his command the DA would be the single most the Powerful fighting force that the imperium has. This was the point of the first legion, an unstoppable fighting force with a singular determination on victory. All other legions are deviation of the first.

mrFickle wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I actually think that The Lion would be the perfect antidote to Guilliman and Cawl.

I literally could not tell you any single trait of The Lion beyond the fact that his name is Lion El'Johnson and he is the chapter master of the dark angels, so....sure?

Honestly, it's like that for most loyalist primarchs. They all kind of blur together for me - I assume Mr. Raven Q. Guard is a bit emo, and I have seen memes of a golden man who likes to reinforce ground who I assume is Fistimus Imperio.

Is Lion El'Johnson the 1980s macho man randy savage that his name and title generally suggest that he should be? If not, do you figure there is narrative leeway to retcon him to have taken up that pastime sometime in the past 10,000 years of canonical time?

The lion is probably the single best warrior of all the primarchs and under his command the DA would be the single most the Powerful fighting force that the imperium has. This was the point of the first legion, an unstoppable fighting force with a singular determination on victory. All other legions are deviation of the first.

sounds like a thing chaos uses....

The neat thing with The Lion is that, although a fantastic general and dualist, he is somewhat lacking in charisma and social awareness. Due to lacking social awareness, he is unaware that he lacks charisma.

As such, he is likely to think he is the obvious candidate to lead the Imperium, which can lead to some tasty conflicts with Guilliman. He never really understood why Horus was picked over him for Warmaster.

 bullyboy wrote:
OK, having looked through a lot of the PA series fluff/Echoes of Awakening, much of it hinted at the rise of the Necrons, something we now know to be a reality. Throughout, these little stories have heralded new models, updates etc. However, not present, but also hinted extensively throughout the series was the presence of the Emperor's Children. They're in both Faith and Fury and Ritual of the Damned, I don't own Blood of Baal, Greater Good or Saga of the Beast so any help there? Pretty sure I heard others say more stories exist.

Anyway, I do believe we will see them fairly early in the rlease schedule, and possibly Fulgrim among them, maybe at Christmas (they did state something big at/by Christmas in one of the streams).

edit: And if these stories continue to provide info for future releases, it bodes well for Eldar, seeing new kits for Scorpions, Warp Spiders and Shining Spears.

If this is the case for Craftworld, GW already missed a big opportunity for Shining Spears. Folks who wanted them with updated Windrider models ordered 3d printed spear arms that fit perfectly with the Windrider kit.

Can I just ask why everyone thinks there should be another loyalist primarch before Fulgrim?

Is it because of fluff? Because there are plenty of active chaos primarchs doing the rounds, and far less loyalists.

Is it because of the crunch? Becuase 8th edition more than anything else has to be understood as a massive shot in the arm for forces of the Imperium. They have gained so many new units and powerful rules it's untrue, whilst Chaos has languished in a few skew lists, whilst most of their units aren't seen in competitive play.

Is it just a matter of 1 vs 2? Why should that matter? What better way to ruin the tension of 8th's tenuous optimism than by bringing back yet another saviour of mankind, giving the Imperium built-in redundancy. No longer does the fate of humankind rest on one pair of shoulders, but two. Or hell, three, why not call it four. It's a totally different narrative at that point.

The only way I could see it working is ifthe Lion's return presages an empire-wide civil war. That could work...

There have been EC hints for over 3 years now. I think we'll finally see them in 9th but wouldn't expect a release this year.

Don’t forget there’s a fulgrim clone stuck in a necron basement somewhere. The EC resent fulgrim on his demon prince form. I’d rather see snake fulgrim in the demons codex and the cloned phoenician in the EC codex. Fabius experiments prove that fulgrim will always turn to choas but his path could still be different from the snake fulgrim

I think from a game stand point a loyal primarch is much harder to design than a daemon primarch.

A daemon primarch will almost always be a huge beatstick that plows through the battlefield like a force of nature. Stick enough strats, weapons and psy to a datasheet and he will do that easily. Fulgrim would be super-fast, many attacks, psychic powers and a sword of primarch-slaying with some sort of nasty poison effect. Done.
A loyalist primarch though? Unless we are talking about (a potentially half-mutated) Russ, most of them would be more like duelists or battlefield commanders, something that doesn't work too well despite GW constantly trying. Gulliman already provides everyone with the bestest auras, and I'm sure that Imperial Fists would want Dorn to feel as different to Gulliman as Mortarion does to Magnus.

Because of that, my vote would be the Lion. The Dark Angels codex provides enough space for tactical shenanigans with their wings to have a tactical genius that feels different from Gulliman.

mrFickle wrote:
Don’t forget there’s a fulgrim clone stuck in a necron basement somewhere. The EC resent fulgrim on his demon prince form. I’d rather see snake fulgrim in the demons codex and the cloned phoenician in the EC codex. Fabius experiments prove that fulgrim will always turn to choas but his path could still be different from the snake fulgrim

They very clearly don't resent him, read Manflayer. If/when he returns he should be part of any prospective EC book. We'll never see anything more on the Fulgrim clone again, nor should we

I haven’t started Manflayer yet but in Primogeniter it sounds like all the remaining senior members of EC feel used and abandoned by fulgrim. Looking forward to reading manflayer