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I'm actually hoping they throw us a curveball and just release Perturabo instead. Sure his legion does not actually follow any of the Chaos gods, nor worship undivided like Lorgar, but I'd like a mister generic traitor Primarch. Fulgrim and Angron would make for more impressive models I'm sure and that's why they will probably come first but I'm a big fan of mister grumpy myself.
It's so annoying they did thye Deathguard right and the Thousand Sons then just leave the Emperor's Children and World Eaters out in the cold. Naturally as an Emperors children player this annoys me but also just the lopsided incompleteness ov it is irritating. Supposedly Fulgrims miniature kit is done, manufactured back to them and in boxes in warehouses awaiting a proper release opp. So being the miniature is su7pposedly on their sheleves gathering dust you'd think they'd wanna make that money. I don't know if I'm right about this but Khorne also seems the most popular chaos faction and so you'd thinlk they'd want to cash in there too. By all means bring back Jaghatai, The Lion, Russ, that'd be great but damn guys finish what you started, you can't just do half the ruinous 4! Is it me or is it the Emperors Children faction having their chain yanked the most here. Our primarch is designed and ready fopr sale but not sold. Our faction got a refresh at AOS BUT NOT HERE. Spotted everywhere in the sector except ON TABLETOPS? I love GW, been in this since 13 and I'm 42 now, But come on guys we know the realms ov chaos hard covers are prolly the high water mark for chaos coolness releases, no future endeavor will eclipse it likely, but like could you may be at least finish this current cycle ov releases for us?? And idk maybe give us our 1st capt Eidolon who still likes his legion and is relatively useful versus Fabius who hates us and Lucius who hates himself? Loving everything about 9th edition, I'm excited for the games future but I ain't gonna lie I'll sleep better at night once Khorne and Slaanesh are being repped as well.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If you think about it having Fabius Bile as our Emperors Children character makes about as much sense as having Iskander Khayon ov the recent Black Legion books be the T Sons special character and no Ahriman.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/14 12:12:53
Fabius Bile is not the EC character, he doesn't have the Keyword and has his own faction trait instead.
There's only Lucius. And since he's the last CSM character in failcast chances aren't bad for an EC codex.
Stux wrote: As such, he is likely to think he is the obvious candidate to lead the Imperium, which can lead to some tasty conflicts with Guilliman. He never really understood why Horus was picked over him for Warmaster.
Why people keep repeating this over and over? First, they reconciled. That plot point is done. Second, if he wanted title of Warmaster, Guilliman would throw signup papers in his face and told him to start yesterday. It's much easier to work on political reform when you have someone capable of handling the boring military stuff, especially in the other segmentums as Rob can be only in one place at once.
Castozor wrote: I'm actually hoping they throw us a curveball and just release Perturabo instead.
This. Or Khan. Anyone but boring and predictable five.
What benefit other than I and presumably other people like him? If they go all out with an IW release there is no reason they can't add some units that were not there before same with DG and TS. Why should only the God-aligned legions get their chance to shine? Because pre-codex they too only had 1 unique unit and that was it.
mrFickle wrote: What benefit would a curveball like perturabo be. What units would you buy to creat an army led by him?
Any standard CSM stuff. Which honestly would be a poor strategy on GWs part. They'd mostly move start collecting boxes, secondary market Shadowspear (oblits and daemon engines) and bits from last year's Holiday army deal (mostly marines and havocs)
Angron or Fulgrim would help shift new kits at full price. And the focus would be on armies that can function a bit differently from the general codex.
Thousand Sons and Death Guard "needed" codexes in a way that the other chaos legions do not - simply put, they can't be done with the CSM codex because these legions don't have Chaos Space Marines, their basic troopers having all been dusted or plagued.
This isn't to say the other cult legions won't or shouldn't get books - certainly, a dedicated Emperor's Children army has a lot of opportunities to create distinctive and uniquely EC models, especially if they lean in on the old glam metal hedonism of the old noise marines.
Still, I wouldn't prioritize them simply because they're cult legions. They don't need it as much TS and DG did, and you could make similar arguments for the other legions having their own distinctive playstyles (a Word Bearers book that leans heavily on cultists and has Exalted Dark Apostles for example).
Perturabo is a funny idea. Interestingly Iron Warriors have the largest close to their fluff model support of all legions if you count Havocs, Vindicators, Obliterators, Mutilators and all the Daemon engines as primarily fitting for them. I don't think Perturabo is probable though, they seem to have forgotten him. And we still don't know how they treat undivided Daemon Princes, since they basically did away with that Mark.
The idea that TS & DG "needed" books more is not a good argument. Even if we accept that EC & WE aren't as unique as TS & DG, they are still heavily divergent in terms of playstyle from baseline vanilla CSM in a way that e.g. Word Bearers are not, which I say as a Word Bearers player, and aren't represented particularly well by the main book, just like pre-7th era DG (e.g. Nurgle Biker spam). VA + F&F already let us play e.g. Word Bearers in that fluffy 3.5 style manner. We can't, conversely, replicate EC from that era with their previous ability to have Sonic Terminators & Predators, etc. The four cult Legions are the best place to start precisely because their dedication to their respective deities makes them unique when compared to the other 5 Traitor Legions
Marshal Loss wrote: The idea that TS & DG "needed" books more is not a good argument. Even if we accept that EC & WE aren't as unique as TS & DG, they are still heavily divergent in terms of playstyle from baseline vanilla CSM in a way that e.g. Word Bearers are not, which I say as a Word Bearers player, and aren't represented particularly well by the main book, just like pre-7th era DG (e.g. Nurgle Biker spam). VA + F&F already let us play e.g. Word Bearers in that fluffy 3.5 style manner. We can't, conversely, replicate EC from that era with their previous ability to have Sonic Terminators & Predators, etc. The four cult Legions are the best place to start precisely because their dedication to their respective deities makes them unique when compared to the other 5 Traitor Legions
If we have EC and WE then all 4 gods are represented and BL is you option for chaos undivided.
The lion is probably the single best warrior of all the primarchs
Primarchs must really suck then. Lion really struggled against a single chaos marine. (Well. not even a full marine, really.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: Can I just ask why everyone thinks there should be another loyalist primarch before Fulgrim?
Is it because of fluff? Because there are plenty of active chaos primarchs doing the rounds, and far less loyalists.
Is it because of the crunch? Becuase 8th edition more than anything else has to be understood as a massive shot in the arm for forces of the Imperium. They have gained so many new units and powerful rules it's untrue, whilst Chaos has languished in a few skew lists, whilst most of their units aren't seen in competitive play.
Is it just a matter of 1 vs 2? Why should that matter? What better way to ruin the tension of 8th's tenuous optimism than by bringing back yet another saviour of mankind, giving the Imperium built-in redundancy. No longer does the fate of humankind rest on one pair of shoulders, but two. Or hell, three, why not call it four. It's a totally different narrative at that point.
The only way I could see it working is ifthe Lion's return presages an empire-wide civil war. That could work...
Because people cannot conceive anyone besides a Primarch having agency and they want turn 40K into HH no matter how absurd that would be.
If you ask me they should kill the one loyalist Primarch they have and never bring back more. Chaos can have theirs, they always existed in the fluff and them being active might make Chaos seem like some sort of a threat for a change.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/15 17:43:51
The lion is probably the single best warrior of all the primarchs
Primarchs must really suck then. Lion really struggled against a single chaos marine. (Well. not even a full marine, really.)
If you're referencing Luther, IIRC he is hopped up on Chaos juice at the climactic Caliban duel - it's a mini Chaos-Horus vs. Emperor scenario, though neither DA character reaches those power levels.
Of course, this may change if it gets looked at post-HH by the Black Library...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2020/07/15 19:14:40
Subject: Re:Emperors Children early release in 9th?
The lion is probably the single best warrior of all the primarchs
Primarchs must really suck then. Lion really struggled against a single chaos marine. (Well. not even a full marine, really.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: Can I just ask why everyone thinks there should be another loyalist primarch before Fulgrim?
Is it because of fluff? Because there are plenty of active chaos primarchs doing the rounds, and far less loyalists.
Is it because of the crunch? Becuase 8th edition more than anything else has to be understood as a massive shot in the arm for forces of the Imperium. They have gained so many new units and powerful rules it's untrue, whilst Chaos has languished in a few skew lists, whilst most of their units aren't seen in competitive play.
Is it just a matter of 1 vs 2? Why should that matter? What better way to ruin the tension of 8th's tenuous optimism than by bringing back yet another saviour of mankind, giving the Imperium built-in redundancy. No longer does the fate of humankind rest on one pair of shoulders, but two. Or hell, three, why not call it four. It's a totally different narrative at that point.
The only way I could see it working is ifthe Lion's return presages an empire-wide civil war. That could work...
Because people cannot conceive anyone besides a Primarch having agency and they want turn 40K into HH no matter how absurd that would be.
If you ask me they should kill the one loyalist Primarch they have and never bring back more. Chaos can have theirs, they always existed in the fluff and them being active might make Chaos seem like some sort of a threat for a change.
Interesting. The only reason I'd like to see another primarch is to crack the imperial monolith, bring in someone else who wants to go in a different direction and create additional tensions.
The problem with 'chaos as a threat' is it runs into the setting premise. It can't ever win or there isn't a setting or game anymore. Internal divisions are far more interesting.
Same thing as chaos being 'sealed up,' really.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/15 19:17:37
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2020/07/15 19:41:50
Subject: Re:Emperors Children early release in 9th?
If you're referencing Luther, IIRC he is hopped up on Chaos juice at the climactic Caliban duel - it's a mini Chaos-Horus vs. Emperor scenario, though neither DA character reaches those power levels.
If Chaos can boost a half-marine to Primarch-level why hasn't the Imperium been overrun a long time ago? Those CSM Chosen could use a Primarch statline!
The lion is probably the single best warrior of all the primarchs
Primarchs must really suck then. Lion really struggled against a single chaos marine. (Well. not even a full marine, really.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: Can I just ask why everyone thinks there should be another loyalist primarch before Fulgrim?
Is it because of fluff? Because there are plenty of active chaos primarchs doing the rounds, and far less loyalists.
Is it because of the crunch? Becuase 8th edition more than anything else has to be understood as a massive shot in the arm for forces of the Imperium. They have gained so many new units and powerful rules it's untrue, whilst Chaos has languished in a few skew lists, whilst most of their units aren't seen in competitive play.
Is it just a matter of 1 vs 2? Why should that matter? What better way to ruin the tension of 8th's tenuous optimism than by bringing back yet another saviour of mankind, giving the Imperium built-in redundancy. No longer does the fate of humankind rest on one pair of shoulders, but two. Or hell, three, why not call it four. It's a totally different narrative at that point.
The only way I could see it working is ifthe Lion's return presages an empire-wide civil war. That could work...
Because people cannot conceive anyone besides a Primarch having agency and they want turn 40K into HH no matter how absurd that would be.
If you ask me they should kill the one loyalist Primarch they have and never bring back more. Chaos can have theirs, they always existed in the fluff and them being active might make Chaos seem like some sort of a threat for a change.
Interesting. The only reason I'd like to see another primarch is to crack the imperial monolith, bring in someone else who wants to go in a different direction and create additional tensions.
Right. And that sounds interesting. But you're falling to the exact 'cannot conceive anyone besides a Primarch having agency' trap that I mentioned. You don't need a Primarch for what you describe, and in fact it works way better if that isn't the cause of the tension. Conservative elements of the Imperium fed up with Guilliman's reforms and other meddling are a perfect foil. Inquisitors, the Ecclesiarch etc.
The problem with 'chaos as a threat' is it runs into the setting premise. It can't ever win or there isn't a setting or game anymore. Internal divisions are far more interesting.
Same thing as chaos being 'sealed up,' really.
It deosn't need to win. But now they're just wimps that hang around the Eye of Terror. Their dreaded 'Veterans of the Long War' are no better than an outdated loyalist rookie and are easily outclassed by the Primaris. The Legions retaining their Primarchs was one thing they had over the loyalists, but now they don't have even that. Imperium rules most of the galaxy, has better tech, better troops and now have their own demigods too. WHFB worked for decades with Chaos being clearly more powerful that the Empire.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/15 19:51:41
Castozor wrote: I'm actually hoping they throw us a curveball and just release Perturabo instead. Sure his legion does not actually follow any of the Chaos gods, nor worship undivided like Lorgar, but I'd like a mister generic traitor Primarch. Fulgrim and Angron would make for more impressive models I'm sure and that's why they will probably come first but I'm a big fan of mister grumpy myself.
Pert or Alpharius would be a really interesting release.
A box set with two, one loyal, one traitor would be great for a Q4 release.
The lion is probably the single best warrior of all the primarchs
Primarchs must really suck then. Lion really struggled against a single chaos marine. (Well. not even a full marine, really.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: Can I just ask why everyone thinks there should be another loyalist primarch before Fulgrim?
Is it because of fluff? Because there are plenty of active chaos primarchs doing the rounds, and far less loyalists.
Is it because of the crunch? Becuase 8th edition more than anything else has to be understood as a massive shot in the arm for forces of the Imperium. They have gained so many new units and powerful rules it's untrue, whilst Chaos has languished in a few skew lists, whilst most of their units aren't seen in competitive play.
Is it just a matter of 1 vs 2? Why should that matter? What better way to ruin the tension of 8th's tenuous optimism than by bringing back yet another saviour of mankind, giving the Imperium built-in redundancy. No longer does the fate of humankind rest on one pair of shoulders, but two. Or hell, three, why not call it four. It's a totally different narrative at that point.
The only way I could see it working is ifthe Lion's return presages an empire-wide civil war. That could work...
Because people cannot conceive anyone besides a Primarch having agency and they want turn 40K into HH no matter how absurd that would be.
If you ask me they should kill the one loyalist Primarch they have and never bring back more. Chaos can have theirs, they always existed in the fluff and them being active might make Chaos seem like some sort of a threat for a change.
The emperor's sons are probably the best known characters in the game. Of course they're going to bring them all back, the whole reason they invented an eldar god of the dead is to resurrect the ones they killed off so as to make nice new toys for them when the mood hits them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/15 20:58:02
Castozor wrote: I'm actually hoping they throw us a curveball and just release Perturabo instead. Sure his legion does not actually follow any of the Chaos gods, nor worship undivided like Lorgar, but I'd like a mister generic traitor Primarch. Fulgrim and Angron would make for more impressive models I'm sure and that's why they will probably come first but I'm a big fan of mister grumpy myself.
Pert or Alpharius would be a really interesting release.
A box set with two, one loyal, one traitor would be great for a Q4 release.
The lion is probably the single best warrior of all the primarchs
Primarchs must really suck then. Lion really struggled against a single chaos marine. (Well. not even a full marine, really.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
grouchoben wrote: Can I just ask why everyone thinks there should be another loyalist primarch before Fulgrim?
Is it because of fluff? Because there are plenty of active chaos primarchs doing the rounds, and far less loyalists.
Is it because of the crunch? Becuase 8th edition more than anything else has to be understood as a massive shot in the arm for forces of the Imperium. They have gained so many new units and powerful rules it's untrue, whilst Chaos has languished in a few skew lists, whilst most of their units aren't seen in competitive play.
Is it just a matter of 1 vs 2? Why should that matter? What better way to ruin the tension of 8th's tenuous optimism than by bringing back yet another saviour of mankind, giving the Imperium built-in redundancy. No longer does the fate of humankind rest on one pair of shoulders, but two. Or hell, three, why not call it four. It's a totally different narrative at that point.
The only way I could see it working is ifthe Lion's return presages an empire-wide civil war. That could work...
Because people cannot conceive anyone besides a Primarch having agency and they want turn 40K into HH no matter how absurd that would be.
If you ask me they should kill the one loyalist Primarch they have and never bring back more. Chaos can have theirs, they always existed in the fluff and them being active might make Chaos seem like some sort of a threat for a change.
The emperor's sons are probably the best known characters in the game. Of course they're going to bring them all back, the whole reason they invented an eldar god of the dead is to resurrect the ones they killed off so as to make nice new toys for them when the mood hits them.
But the HH reference is an important point. The HH was the backdrop to 40k and if they bring back the primarch it will be rubbish if the just bring HH to 41st millennium. They need to tell the next part of the story of the primarchs. As someone else has said they should not be total unity and probably some out right succession and formation of independent systems.
Interesting idea- two Imeria of man. Conveniently, the galaxy is at present, still cut in half by Cicatrix, so the geography to split the Imperium is there.
We would just need a charismatic leader in the other half to declare Guilliman a traitor, and the stage is set.
A primarch could do it, or not; as others have said, it could be any non-Ultramarine Imperial faction(s). The Church is a strong candidate, as is the Inquisition. But I think another primarch might be a cleaner choice- I don't want a civil war WITHIN the Sisterhood, so they go all behind or all against.
Truth be told though, I've never really liked internal conflict in space drama. You've got a whole universe of aliens, and you want to focus on beef between humans? Seems like defeating the purpose of setting a story in space.
The last thing Xenos players want is another Imperium vs Imperium narrative. It isn't a much better narrative for chaos either, unless they ultimately end up corrupting one side or the other.
2020/07/16 01:03:52
Subject: Re:Emperors Children early release in 9th?
Voss wrote:
Interesting. The only reason I'd like to see another primarch is to crack the imperial monolith, bring in someone else who wants to go in a different direction and create additional tensions.
Right. And that sounds interesting. But you're falling to the exact 'cannot conceive anyone besides a Primarch having agency' trap that I mentioned. You don't need a Primarch for what you describe, and in fact it works way better if that isn't the cause of the tension. Conservative elements of the Imperium fed up with Guilliman's reforms and other meddling are a perfect foil. Inquisitors, the Ecclesiarch etc.
I guess you can call that a trap- I'm not sure I'd say anyone in 40k has anything resembling agency.. I'm not sure how you represent the 'conservative elements' on the table though, or the galactic scale of such a split.
Sure Cardinal Random could do it, but it begs the question of how they survive more than 5 minutes, or why anyone cares.
It requires building a whole new human faction from scratch, and I'm not sure anyone really wants to see that.
The problem with 'chaos as a threat' is it runs into the setting premise. It can't ever win or there isn't a setting or game anymore. Internal divisions are far more interesting.
Same thing as chaos being 'sealed up,' really.
It deosn't need to win. But now they're just wimps that hang around the Eye of Terror. Their dreaded 'Veterans of the Long War' are no better than an outdated loyalist rookie and are easily outclassed by the Primaris. The Legions retaining their Primarchs was one thing they had over the loyalists, but now they don't have even that. Imperium rules most of the galaxy, has better tech, better troops and now have their own demigods too. WHFB worked for decades with Chaos being clearly more powerful that the Empire.
Well, current fluff is they're not just hanging about the Eye of Terror, the Imperium is falling apart, and have pretty much ceded the 'northern' half of the galaxy to... whatever happens to it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/16 01:09:01
PenitentJake wrote: Interesting idea- two Imeria of man. Conveniently, the galaxy is at present, still cut in half by Cicatrix, so the geography to split the Imperium is there.
We would just need a charismatic leader in the other half to declare Guilliman a traitor, and the stage is set.
A primarch could do it, or not; as others have said, it could be any non-Ultramarine Imperial faction(s). The Church is a strong candidate, as is the Inquisition. But I think another primarch might be a cleaner choice- I don't want a civil war WITHIN the Sisterhood, so they go all behind or all against.
Truth be told though, I've never really liked internal conflict in space drama. You've got a whole universe of aliens, and you want to focus on beef between humans? Seems like defeating the purpose of setting a story in space.
The last thing Xenos players want is another Imperium vs Imperium narrative. It isn't a much better narrative for chaos either, unless they ultimately end up corrupting one side or the other.
I think another primarch is better otherwise it will eventually be loyalist primarchs vs traitor primarchs, boring
It’s easy to swing, Guilliman is fed up and believes his way is the way forward:
Lion thinks he should have been war master all along and is angry that he is still not being seen as the natural leader of man
Sanguinus re incarnates and says to be the next emperor is his destiny
Dorn just takes a portion of the empire and fortifies it and becomes isolationist
Sometimes I think that GW struggle to come up with ideas for EC and WE, and we know what happened last time they couldn't think of reasons for uniqueness...Squats got squatted.
2020/07/17 00:32:40
Subject: Re:Emperors Children early release in 9th?
I think they should release alpharius. as a single cutout of one of the CSM off the new sprue.
...or not
In all seriousness though, its about time the EC got some love, they've been stuck in that damn finecast so long. And maybe just maybe their incredible price hike is a precursor to new models with better rules? just speculation really.
I really reallly wanna see my boy angron and the WE asap. but I know that's a while away. Oh well.
IMO fulgrim should come before another loyalist one, the EC and chaos as a whole so badly need it. Plus guilliman is doing fine atm (as fine as that can be in the current situation haha).
I'd assume that we're going to see heavy plot advancement across this new book series- maybe the return of The Lion or The Khan can be a heroic intervention to save guilliman from certain death at the hands of fulgrim. But that's really wishlisting at that point
edit: whatever happens, I think we all want it to happen soon
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/17 00:33:12
PenitentJake wrote: Interesting idea- two Imeria of man. Conveniently, the galaxy is at present, still cut in half by Cicatrix, so the geography to split the Imperium is there.
We would just need a charismatic leader in the other half to declare Guilliman a traitor, and the stage is set.
A primarch could do it, or not; as others have said, it could be any non-Ultramarine Imperial faction(s). The Church is a strong candidate, as is the Inquisition. But I think another primarch might be a cleaner choice- I don't want a civil war WITHIN the Sisterhood, so they go all behind or all against.
Truth be told though, I've never really liked internal conflict in space drama. You've got a whole universe of aliens, and you want to focus on beef between humans? Seems like defeating the purpose of setting a story in space.
The last thing Xenos players want is another Imperium vs Imperium narrative. It isn't a much better narrative for chaos either, unless they ultimately end up corrupting one side or the other.
I think another primarch is better otherwise it will eventually be loyalist primarchs vs traitor primarchs, boring
It’s easy to swing, Guilliman is fed up and believes his way is the way forward:
Lion thinks he should have been war master all along and is angry that he is still not being seen as the natural leader of man
Sanguinus re incarnates and says to be the next emperor is his destiny
Dorn just takes a portion of the empire and fortifies it and becomes isolationist
So on
See, I'd rather have primarchs vs traitor primarchs than any of those other proposals. One is Marines vs. Chaos which might incorporates Daemons, so you're dealing with three distinct armies, or at least two. What you're proposing is Marines, Marines, Marines, Marines, vs some Marines in all their Mariniest to see who can out Marine who. I think what I was referencing in my post was a suggestion that an Imperial schism against Gulliman doesn't need to be marine based at all. If Gw can invent Yvraine, the can invent a preacher or guard commander who unites other Imperial factions.
Personally, I don't like internal schism when it's large scale. The intrigues of the Inquisition are one thing, but full scale Imperial Civil War? I play 40k as escapism from human on human conflict. Chaos and aliens are the preferred enemies of any of my Imperial armies- given a choice, I go that way every time. And if someone wants to play an Imperial forces against me, I usually use Chaos, GSC or Drukhari. Imperium on Imperium is not my bag.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Honestly I'd be totally happy with an EC release sans Fulgrim. Won't happen, of course, but I just want to be able to depict the EC on the tabletop as they are in the lore. Don't need Fulgrim to do that.
Marshal Loss wrote: Honestly I'd be totally happy with an EC release sans Fulgrim. Won't happen, of course, but I just want to be able to depict the EC on the tabletop as they are in the lore. Don't need Fulgrim to do that.
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+