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Get Angron and Fulgrim into the game. Don't bring back any more loyalist primarchs.

Noise Marines should come about, but only after GW has significantly dropped the points prices for them and their gear.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Noise Marines should come about, but only after GW has significantly dropped the points prices for them and their gear.

Pretty sure that won't happen until whichever codex (EC or CSM) brings us new noise marines.

I guess they could just not do new noise marines, but at this point that'd just be egregious.

Bringing the Khan back would be interesting if only because it would probably just result in a massive schism within the Imperium. Jaghatai was ambivalent toward the Imperium even when it was a borderline utopia pre-Heresy. If he returned and saw the state it was in as of the 41st millennium, his response in all likelihood would be to just take the Scars and feth off to some remote edge of the galaxy, or even maybe the Eye of Terror. It would be like a human version of the Farsight Enclaves.

Voss wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Noise Marines should come about, but only after GW has significantly dropped the points prices for them and their gear.

Pretty sure that won't happen until whichever codex (EC or CSM) brings us new noise marines.

I guess they could just not do new noise marines, but at this point that'd just be egregious.

All of the cult Marines need their own models in my mind (the regular possessed are desperately need in update), but since noisers can be taken as troops the Emperor's Children, it strikes me as very wrong that their prices and those of their weapons are so high. At least berzerkers and their weapons generally have low price weapons.

It is wrong.

But unless its a mistake that they'll FAQ (Which it might well be, like the warp talons they got a base increase plus a weapon increase, which is out of line with what happened to most units), the points value isn't changing until a new book comes.

That'll be a codex (either EC or CSM) or CA2021. It won't be in a CA 2020, because that comes out next week- its where the point increases come from. If new noise marines come, it will likely be part of a release around a book.

Smaller odds on a box set or another terrible 'Psychic Awakening' type series.

 Sasori wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Honestly I'd be totally happy with an EC release sans Fulgrim. Won't happen, of course, but I just want to be able to depict the EC on the tabletop as they are in the lore. Don't need Fulgrim to do that.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:


edit: whatever happens, I think we all want it to happen soon

Yeeeeeeeeep. I think we'll have a better idea of when/if EC are coming out when the 9th ed CSM book drops

You don't need to put Fulgrim on the tabletop, but he should be available for players that want to play him.

I'm also really interested in how a plastic Fulgrim will look.

He's not necessary for the army to function and an EC release would not be lacking were he not present. Unfortunately speculation always has to revolve around Primarchs these days, case in point

Besides, as I said, GW obviously wouldn't do a release without him.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Honestly I'd be totally happy with an EC release sans Fulgrim. Won't happen, of course, but I just want to be able to depict the EC on the tabletop as they are in the lore. Don't need Fulgrim to do that.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:


edit: whatever happens, I think we all want it to happen soon

Yeeeeeeeeep. I think we'll have a better idea of when/if EC are coming out when the 9th ed CSM book drops

You don't need to put Fulgrim on the tabletop, but he should be available for players that want to play him.

I'm also really interested in how a plastic Fulgrim will look.

He's not necessary for the army to function and an EC release would not be lacking were he not present. Unfortunately speculation always has to revolve around Primarchs these days, case in point

Besides, as I said, GW obviously wouldn't do a release without him.

I would disagree, An EC release would most certainly be lacking without their Daemon Primarch, when both the Thousand Sons and Death Guard release got theirs. There are plenty of instances of things armies don't need to function, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in the release.

Voss wrote:
It is wrong.

But unless its a mistake that they'll FAQ (Which it might well be, like the warp talons they got a base increase plus a weapon increase, which is out of line with what happened to most units), the points value isn't changing until a new book comes.

That'll be a codex (either EC or CSM) or CA2021. It won't be in a CA 2020, because that comes out next week- its where the point increases come from. If new noise marines come, it will likely be part of a release around a book.

Smaller odds on a box set or another terrible 'Psychic Awakening' type series.

It's a tangent, but thanks to Psychic awakening, we have: Drazhar, Jain Zar, Ghaz, Mephiston, Shadowsun, Draxus and Stern, plus a named Wolf and a Necron monster. I think Psychic Awakening was great. Many of those models are awesome, whether the books were everything you wanted them to be or not. Most GK players are pretty grateful for PA.

If GW is going to give us 9th dexes with model support for the next year instead of campaign books, I'm fine with that- I actually like it better, provided they stop making stuff for factions that don't need more stuff so the rest of us can catch up (fat chance of that: Marines! Marines! Marines!). But a campaign cycle that gave every faction some new rules and many factions new models was an acceptable strategy as far as I'm concerned.

 Sasori wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Honestly I'd be totally happy with an EC release sans Fulgrim. Won't happen, of course, but I just want to be able to depict the EC on the tabletop as they are in the lore. Don't need Fulgrim to do that.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:


edit: whatever happens, I think we all want it to happen soon

Yeeeeeeeeep. I think we'll have a better idea of when/if EC are coming out when the 9th ed CSM book drops

You don't need to put Fulgrim on the tabletop, but he should be available for players that want to play him.

I'm also really interested in how a plastic Fulgrim will look.

He's not necessary for the army to function and an EC release would not be lacking were he not present. Unfortunately speculation always has to revolve around Primarchs these days, case in point

Besides, as I said, GW obviously wouldn't do a release without him.

I would disagree, An EC release would most certainly be lacking without their Daemon Primarch, when both the Thousand Sons and Death Guard release got theirs. There are plenty of instances of things armies don't need to function, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in the release.

You missed the point yet again. EC don't justify their existence based on whether Fulgrim is or is not in a book. People have been playing these Legions for decades without their Primarchs with no negative impact. Remove Mortarion or Magnus from their respective books and the armies are still satisfying to play with and against. Besides, EC lore is predicated upon their Primarch being absent (& in a far more distant fashion to that of the TS/DG/WE), not present. Either way he'll invariably accompany any prospective EC release, as I've said 3x now, so you can stop waffling

PenitentJake wrote:

Voss wrote:
It is wrong.

But unless its a mistake that they'll FAQ (Which it might well be, like the warp talons they got a base increase plus a weapon increase, which is out of line with what happened to most units), the points value isn't changing until a new book comes.

That'll be a codex (either EC or CSM) or CA2021. It won't be in a CA 2020, because that comes out next week- its where the point increases come from. If new noise marines come, it will likely be part of a release around a book.

Smaller odds on a box set or another terrible 'Psychic Awakening' type series.

It's a tangent, but thanks to Psychic awakening, we have: Drazhar, Jain Zar, Ghaz, Mephiston, Shadowsun, Draxus and Stern, plus a named Wolf and a Necron monster. I think Psychic Awakening was great. Many of those models are awesome, whether the books were everything you wanted them to be or not. Most GK players are pretty grateful for PA.

GW spent 20-odd years telling me that using special characters was wrong, and only the most sick and twisted individuals would use them outside WD story battle reports where they replay the game repeatedly until they get the results they want.
So I care nothing for them. All I see is a missed opportunity to release a generic character kit- the wow factor on Mephiston lasted about 5 minutes- its a nice model, but a generic BA libby would have been just as nice looking, and overall a more useful release. The eldar stuff had me shaking my head at tactical rocks and absurdly bad 'dynamic' poses.

From my perspective, PA was a waste of time and resources. Most of it should have been in the SM 2.0 Codex (with pointers for the Special Snowflake chapters, rather than reprinting those sheets over and over), and the 'fixing' of GK and a few other things should have been handled a different way. (like a free pdf errata for their codex)

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Honestly I'd be totally happy with an EC release sans Fulgrim. Won't happen, of course, but I just want to be able to depict the EC on the tabletop as they are in the lore. Don't need Fulgrim to do that.

 McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:


edit: whatever happens, I think we all want it to happen soon

Yeeeeeeeeep. I think we'll have a better idea of when/if EC are coming out when the 9th ed CSM book drops

You don't need to put Fulgrim on the tabletop, but he should be available for players that want to play him.

I'm also really interested in how a plastic Fulgrim will look.

He's not necessary for the army to function and an EC release would not be lacking were he not present. Unfortunately speculation always has to revolve around Primarchs these days, case in point

Besides, as I said, GW obviously wouldn't do a release without him.

I would disagree, An EC release would most certainly be lacking without their Daemon Primarch, when both the Thousand Sons and Death Guard release got theirs. There are plenty of instances of things armies don't need to function, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in the release.

You missed the point yet again. EC don't justify their existence based on whether Fulgrim is or is not in a book. People have been playing these Legions for decades without their Primarchs with no negative impact. Remove Mortarion or Magnus from their respective books and the armies are still satisfying to play with and against. Besides, EC lore is predicated upon their Primarch being absent (& in a far more distant fashion to that of the TS/DG/WE), not present. Either way he'll invariably accompany any prospective EC release, as I've said 3x now, so you can stop waffling

I'm not missing your point, I just think your point is very poor.

I have never stated that any tratior legion "Justifies" it's existence based on the presence of a daemon primarch. I said that a current release would most certainly be lacking without one, when the previous two have gotten them. At this point it would be a negative impact to not have Fugrim with a large EC range release.

 Sasori wrote:


I'm not missing your point, I just think your point is very poor.

I have never stated that any tratior legion "Justifies" it's existence based on the presence of a daemon primarch. I said that a current release would most certainly be lacking without one, when the previous two have gotten them. At this point it would be a negative impact to not have Fugrim with a large EC range release.

Mate if you understood my point you wouldn't have replied to begin with. I simply said that I (read: singular personal pronoun) would be happy with an EC release sans Fulgrim, and EC players don't need him to play the faction - which are both objective facts, and which you in turn took in an unexpectedly stupid direction. I am not to blame for your poor reading comprehension.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Sasori wrote:


I'm not missing your point, I just think your point is very poor.

I have never stated that any tratior legion "Justifies" it's existence based on the presence of a daemon primarch. I said that a current release would most certainly be lacking without one, when the previous two have gotten them. At this point it would be a negative impact to not have Fugrim with a large EC range release.

Mate if you understood my point you wouldn't have replied to begin with. I simply said that I (read: singular personal pronoun) would be happy with an EC release sans Fulgrim, and EC players don't need him to play the faction - which are both objective facts, and which you in turn took in an unexpectedly stupid direction. I am not to blame for your poor reading comprehension.

No need to be rude here. If you can't be civil, you should step away from the keyboard.

My original comment was just because you would be happy without Fulgrim, a lot of other players would not and that you don't need to play with him. You then double'd down and said that the release would not be lacking without him, which I disagreed with due to the other traitor legions getting theirs.

I honestly hope for EC not get their own codex, but simply have fulgrim, noise terminators and dreads added to Codex CSM.

If they get their own codex, current EC player would be looking at having vast amounts of their collection rendered invalid. A dedicated codex would mean losing all but the generic marine choices plus 3-5 other things from codex CSM, just like TS and DG did. There are still vast death guard armies on sale on ebay, made up by models they are no longer allowed to field, like bikers, vindicators, havocs and obliterators.

Khorne Berzerkers really really need a new sculpt.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Get Angron and Fulgrim into the game. Don't bring back any more loyalist primarchs.

Uh, how is that fair?

So you're saying

Ultramarines
Thousand Sons
Death Guard
Emperor's Children
World Eaters

All get their primarchs and then just feth everyone else.

Like Salamanders? Feth off. Like Dark Angels? Go to hell. A big fan of Word Bearers? Nope son, you get nothing.

The flood gates are open. Bring all primarchs back, retcon the dead ones.

Or just kill Guilliman?

Not sure it would solve anything, but at least he'd be dead.

 Togusa wrote:
Uh, how is that fair?

In the grim darkness of 2020, there is no fairness.

 Togusa wrote:
Like Salamanders? Feth off. Like Dark Angels? Go to hell. A big fan of Word Bearers? Nope son, you get nothing.

The flood gates are open. Bring all primarchs back, retcon the dead ones.

The four (and a half?) dead Primarchs need to stay dead. I'm open to any of the ones where death hasn't been confirmed returning, even if in one case they've got a new bionic hand, but let the dead stay dead.

One of the few things Abbadon had succeeded in before the Story team lost their damn minds was ensuring that Horus could never be cloned.

Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

steelhead177th wrote:
Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

There's this wonderful invention you may have heard of - it's called the Horus Heresy game...

steelhead177th wrote:
Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

Boy do I have a surprise for you.

Aye-ya! I didn't fall out of the turnip truck yesterday.

For example, you might want 40k rules for the Salamander's duder to cover/play War of the Beast. With HH, I don't know if the rules could cover it without major housejiggering it (mostly as it's one game(HH) I have not really looked into as the books are as easy to obtain as Roc's teeth here).

-This might be the same for any event happening after the current HH rulebook, up to the "current" era, which is quite abit more "familar" and more likely an interest to play in.

Others would have to speak about that, all I know is the models & lore from HH.

So what you're saying but don't want to admit is that you just want Vulkan and Dorn models and rules so that you can play lore accurate games set during the Scouring and the War of the Beast.

Okay? But that's a very niche' target demographic. And even then, models for those Primarchs already exist via the HH ruleset. Take 5 minutes to homebrew their HH rules over to 8/9th edition rules and you'll have what you want.

steelhead177th wrote:
Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

THANK YOU.

Most people play for the models, they like the characters and factions yes, but it's about game play. Have some alternate thing "Warhammer Heroes" or something where the models are a part of the game, but not the fluff. Problem solved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

steelhead177th wrote:
Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

Boy do I have a surprise for you.

You can't play those models in 40K. They have no rules.

 Togusa wrote:

steelhead177th wrote:
Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

THANK YOU.

Most people play for the models, they like the characters and factions yes, but it's about game play. Have some alternate thing "Warhammer Heroes" or something where the models are a part of the game, but not the fluff. Problem solved.

Citation very much required regarding people choosing to play for the game play.

I don't have survey results or anything to back me up, but in my experience, people tend to get invested in the game due to the strength of the background and the factions. Continue eroding the pillars that support it - such as the four (and a half?) dead Primarchs, and eventually things will collapse.

 Togusa wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

steelhead177th wrote:
Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

Boy do I have a surprise for you.

You can't play those models in 40K. They have no rules.

But you can play them in a game designed around using Primarchs, as opposed to one that struggles to deal with the difference in scale and capability they imply.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Voss wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Noise Marines should come about, but only after GW has significantly dropped the points prices for them and their gear.

Pretty sure that won't happen until whichever codex (EC or CSM) brings us new noise marines.

I guess they could just not do new noise marines, but at this point that'd just be egregious.

All of the cult Marines need their own models in my mind (the regular possessed are desperately need in update), but since noisers can be taken as troops the Emperor's Children, it strikes me as very wrong that their prices and those of their weapons are so high. At least berzerkers and their weapons generally have low price weapons.

Given that NM are more expensive then Intercessors with Sonic Blasters.. Yeaaah they badly need a points drop if the Intercessors aren't going to get far more expensive.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

steelhead177th wrote:
Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

THANK YOU.

Most people play for the models, they like the characters and factions yes, but it's about game play. Have some alternate thing "Warhammer Heroes" or something where the models are a part of the game, but not the fluff. Problem solved.

Citation very much required regarding people choosing to play for the game play.

I don't have survey results or anything to back me up, but in my experience, people tend to get invested in the game due to the strength of the background and the factions. Continue eroding the pillars that support it - such as the four (and a half?) dead Primarchs, and eventually things will collapse.

 Togusa wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

steelhead177th wrote:
Give the dead ones models & rules. Nothing says you have to play 40k in the year 40k, eh?

Boy do I have a surprise for you.

You can't play those models in 40K. They have no rules.

But you can play them in a game designed around using Primarchs, as opposed to one that struggles to deal with the difference in scale and capability they imply.

-Citation, my own experience after 6 years playing in over a dozen game tournaments, and two dozen game stores.

People talk about the fulff, but most never seem to care off the internet one way or the other.

I never hear people say "Gee, I DON'T want my primarch for my faction.

From a fluff perspective, I think things were better pre Gathering Storm. Having daemon Primarchs is fine, Gulliman was enthroned like his father. Lion doing the King Arthur thing. No primaris. Cadia holding the fine line.

From a models perspective, I want to see how the studio does all of them, especially the Lion.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
So what you're saying but don't want to admit is that you just want Vulkan and Dorn models and rules so that you can play lore accurate games set during the Scouring and the War of the Beast.

Okay? But that's a very niche' target demographic. And even then, models for those Primarchs already exist via the HH ruleset. Take 5 minutes to homebrew their HH rules over to 8/9th edition rules and you'll have what you want.

- So what you are saying is that you want to cherrypick information from the post above this one(that I wrote) to prove a strawman arguement and ignore the actual message in the post.

I used the War of the Beast as an example. It's a good one, one that you don't have an arguement about so you make your arguement about me wanting rule & models and tell me to admit it.
Meh. My orginal point still stands. And yes, I have a Space Goblin Army, but no Space Marines...so no primarchs for me period. I have no personal stake in this, but from a gameplay and to open up the hobby - aye- all the primarchs but the lost two should get models and rules.

-Oh and 5 minutes to go from 7th to 9th?
I have been following 40k from 4th onwards and the shift from 7th to 8th was not taken that lightly.
That not taking into account the change in the Space Marines themselves, going from Legions to Chapters, and all that Codex stuff...ya know.