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Question for flyers regarding this rule -

I haven't seen the live streams for this or the flyer topics, but have they covered flyers needing to deploy on a certain turn? I actually like having my flyers available turn 1, and have been afraid that, with this, and some of the other changes, that they would move them back to not being allowed to deploy before turn 2. Is there any news on that?

Tycho wrote:
Question for flyers regarding this rule -

I haven't seen the live streams for this or the flyer topics, but have they covered flyers needing to deploy on a certain turn? I actually like having my flyers available turn 1, and have been afraid that, with this, and some of the other changes, that they would move them back to not being allowed to deploy before turn 2. Is there any news on that?

Nothing on that.

As of now, you can deploy them turn 1 and just play as usual, or have them fly off the board and come back the next turn.

Another thing I just thought of: Since now everyone can deepstrike I really hope those factions who so far had this as one of their particular sticks (looking at you, Genestealers) can either do it better than everybody else or get something else in return. I don't play stealers, but it feels a little unfair that everybody and everything can be deepstriked now.

And beside that: "guarding" the battlefield edges might be of higher importance than before. A Baneblade might be to broad to deepstrike that way, a Macharius Vulcan or 3 Hellhounds are not. And just from my personal gut feeling I think it's a big one, that now ALL glass canons can be deepstriked.
On that note: putting 30 conscripts (PL 3) into deepstrike only costs 1 point (and you still have 6 PL "open") and those conscripts can cover up to 90'' if I'm not mistaken (1'' per conscript, 2'' in between them).
So at the end of your second turn you might (!) be able to "seal of" a large proportion of the battlefield edges towards deepstrike by just dropping a conga line of cheap horde units there. Depending on the map it might even be possible to "seal" the enemy deployment zone by congalining just outside, as that would mean the other player cannot use a 9'' stripe of his DZ.

Arriving from a table edge is a far cry from Deep Striking though. Deep striking is usually used to get right up close to a target of your choice. Reserves can be used to threaten opponents away from table edges or force them to commit more to defending an area than they might otherwise commit. Otherwise Reserves can be used to deploy ranged units part way through the game, protecting them from being wiped out early in the game, and providing support once the opponent has already committed to a battle plan.


Honestly, I think these rules are AWESOME. This brings me back to Omega-level games in 4th edition, and some of the escalating games I had during 3rd. I think these are really positive changes.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Seeing that this is yet another basic mechanic of the game that you need command points for I'm wondering if we'll actually have more CP available as they keep saying in every faction focus.
You need CP for Overwatch, kind of for Fallback, for strategic reserves, to upgrade some units - so in the end you might have 3CP left to use some of the 20+ strats that your faction has.

Good. This gives us more meaningful choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Another thing I just thought of: Since now everyone can deepstrike I really hope those factions who so far had this as one of their particular sticks (looking at you, Genestealers) can either do it better than everybody else or get something else in return. I don't play stealers, but it feels a little unfair that everybody and everything can be deepstriked now.

And beside that: "guarding" the battlefield edges might be of higher importance than before. A Baneblade might be to broad to deepstrike that way, a Macharius Vulcan or 3 Hellhounds are not. And just from my personal gut feeling I think it's a big one, that now ALL glass canons can be deepstriked.
On that note: putting 30 conscripts (PL 3) into deepstrike only costs 1 point (and you still have 6 PL "open") and those conscripts can cover up to 90'' if I'm not mistaken (1'' per conscript, 2'' in between them).
So at the end of your second turn you might (!) be able to "seal of" a large proportion of the battlefield edges towards deepstrike by just dropping a conga line of cheap horde units there. Depending on the map it might even be possible to "seal" the enemy deployment zone by congalining just outside, as that would mean the other player cannot use a 9'' stripe of his DZ.

All I know is that this is back (probably).

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Seeing that this is yet another basic mechanic of the game that you need command points for I'm wondering if we'll actually have more CP available as they keep saying in every faction focus.
You need CP for Overwatch, kind of for Fallback, for strategic reserves, to upgrade some units - so in the end you might have 3CP left to use some of the 20+ strats that your faction has.

Basic mechanics needed more balance checks. Having said, few points:

-You already had stratagems that cost CP that allows you to put units in to 'reserves' that normally cannot deploy off the battlefield, so not much change there. If you want to spend lot of CPs, that's on you, not the proposed system.

-The CP fall back is ONLY when you're tri-pointed. Again, optional ONLY WHEN you're tripointed.

Which is constantly vs BA, and never vs Tau.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Seeing that this is yet another basic mechanic of the game that you need command points for I'm wondering if we'll actually have more CP available as they keep saying in every faction focus.
You need CP for Overwatch, kind of for Fallback, for strategic reserves, to upgrade some units - so in the end you might have 3CP left to use some of the 20+ strats that your faction has.

Good. This gives us more meaningful choices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Another thing I just thought of: Since now everyone can deepstrike I really hope those factions who so far had this as one of their particular sticks (looking at you, Genestealers) can either do it better than everybody else or get something else in return. I don't play stealers, but it feels a little unfair that everybody and everything can be deepstriked now.

And beside that: "guarding" the battlefield edges might be of higher importance than before. A Baneblade might be to broad to deepstrike that way, a Macharius Vulcan or 3 Hellhounds are not. And just from my personal gut feeling I think it's a big one, that now ALL glass canons can be deepstriked.
On that note: putting 30 conscripts (PL 3) into deepstrike only costs 1 point (and you still have 6 PL "open") and those conscripts can cover up to 90'' if I'm not mistaken (1'' per conscript, 2'' in between them).
So at the end of your second turn you might (!) be able to "seal of" a large proportion of the battlefield edges towards deepstrike by just dropping a conga line of cheap horde units there. Depending on the map it might even be possible to "seal" the enemy deployment zone by congalining just outside, as that would mean the other player cannot use a 9'' stripe of his DZ.

All I know is that this is back (probably).

noob here,
is the unit coherency rule supposed to forbid that ?

/////battle primer quote
UNITS
Models move and fight in units, made
up of one or more models. A unit must
be set up and finish any sort of move
as a group, with every model within 2"
horizontally, and 6" vertically, of at least
one other model from their unit this is
called unit coherency. If anything causes
a unit to become split up during a battle,
it must re-establish its unit coherency the
next time it moves.
///////

Krylon wrote:

noob here,
is the unit coherency rule supposed to forbid that ?

/////battle primer quote
UNITS
Models move and fight in units, made
up of one or more models. A unit must
be set up and finish any sort of move
as a group, with every model within 2"
horizontally, and 6" vertically, of at least
one other model from their unit this is
called unit coherency. If anything causes
a unit to become split up during a battle,
it must re-establish its unit coherency the
next time it moves.
///////

Nah that image was an infamous tournament from a long time ago. The T'au player knew the kind of list his opponent had, which was basically all reserves and super cheesy. So, to screw him over he took a bunch of scouting units and blocked his opponent's deployment zone edge (nothing within 9" to stop him). And so without firing a shot he won.

It was common to have scout tho, everyone had a scout unit if they could to try and stop a lot of the DSing and Outflanking crap. Basically anyone that could bring scout units did. He was stupid to Null deploy vs someone with Scouts.

As someone that started tournaments in 5th with double Outflanking Tervigons and Genestealers. Every freaking person had scouts, it was annoying more me. But to be far, to bring on a 6W troop that birth out 3D6 more troops on your flank that also got to move was kinda cheesy.

Spoletta wrote:
Ok, now we can say it for sure, we have all the key elements that we were looking for.

Hordes are done for. Only a massive point advantage for them would make them viable at this point.

The morale doesn't advantage them, the terrain rules are bad for hordes and obviously there are blasts.

Keep your hordes home for this edition!

You can't say we have all the key elements and then say we still need points bro. Still need points. If a cultist is 6 points but a HB is 40 and a TFC is 380, and a melta is 4 and a lascannon is 12, they'll be meta.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Which is constantly vs BA, and never vs Tau.

If either one of those armies were doing particularly well, I'm sure that would matter.

You can't say we have all the key elements and then say we still need points bro. Still need points. If a cultist is 6 points but a HB is 40 and a TFC is 380, and a melta is 4 and a lascannon is 12, they'll be meta.

We do still need more info to make final conclusions, but you have to admit that it currently looks bleak for light infantry in general ...

As a big user of Ulthwé black guardians I wonder if the Webway Strike stratagem will change or if it’s just another variation of deep striking units.

Also really curious if the rewrite scenery rules like the Aeldari Webway Gate along with new 9th rules. My prediction is that, if they do, they’ll have it as a location to bring on strategic reserves that isn’t a board edge.

I’m thinking, for Craftworlds at least, it could be a good thing to have a Wraithlord in strategic reserves. Maybe even a unit of D Cannons!!

Tycho wrote:

You can't say we have all the key elements and then say we still need points bro. Still need points. If a cultist is 6 points but a HB is 40 and a TFC is 380, and a melta is 4 and a lascannon is 12, they'll be meta.

We do still need more info to make final conclusions, but you have to admit that it currently looks bleak for light infantry in general ...

No it doesn't. This rule is a big plus for hordes not under some morale ignore mechanic.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Nah that image was an infamous tournament from a long time ago. The T'au player knew the kind of list his opponent had, which was basically all reserves and super cheesy. So, to screw him over he took a bunch of scouting units and blocked his opponent's deployment zone edge (nothing within 9" to stop him). And so without firing a shot he won.

That is awesome, thanks for this

One last copy paste on this one because it's relevant to this topic:

Has it been brought up yet that you can bring a unit of 30 Ork Boyz in from strategic reserve on your turn 2 and deploy it directly into combat with anything on the table?

Remember, so far they haven't said 'wholly within' 1" they've said 'within' one inch.

new table is 44" wide. Ork boyz are 32mm bases now according to the GW site so 30 ork bases make up roughly 37.8 inches. Add the 1" from the table edge and 29 2" coherencies and you have 96.8" of deployment range for your boys. You could probably get something wrapped up with 10-15 boyz at your opponent's deployment line.

Hopefully, they've changed what 'within' means.

ERJAK wrote:
One last copy paste on this one because it's relevant to this topic:

Has it been brought up yet that you can bring a unit of 30 Ork Boyz in from strategic reserve on your turn 2 and deploy it directly into combat with anything on the table?

Remember, so far they haven't said 'wholly within' 1" they've said 'within' one inch.

new table is 44" wide. Ork boyz are 32mm bases now according to the GW site so 30 ork bases make up roughly 37.8 inches. Add the 1" from the table edge and 29 2" coherencies and you have 96.8" of deployment range for your boys. You could probably get something wrapped up with 10-15 boyz at your opponent's deployment line.

Hopefully, they've changed what 'within' means.

Hmm? Not sure what you're referring to. Rule says wholly w/i 6" of edge.

EDIT: Ok I see what you're saying, but I think it's just a sub-clause that allows direct engagement. You still have to satisfy the rest of the rule.

ERJAK wrote:
One last copy paste on this one because it's relevant to this topic:

Has it been brought up yet that you can bring a unit of 30 Ork Boyz in from strategic reserve on your turn 2 and deploy it directly into combat with anything on the table?

Remember, so far they haven't said 'wholly within' 1" they've said 'within' one inch.

new table is 44" wide. Ork boyz are 32mm bases now according to the GW site so 30 ork bases make up roughly 37.8 inches. Add the 1" from the table edge and 29 2" coherencies and you have 96.8" of deployment range for your boys. You could probably get something wrapped up with 10-15 boyz at your opponent's deployment line.

Hopefully, they've changed what 'within' means.

They have to be set-up wholly within 6" of the battlefield edge per the Strategic Reserves rules.

Additionally, they can be set-up within 1" of enemy models if they're also within 1" of your battlefield edge.

The second part doesn't contradict the first. You still have to set up within 6" of an edge, but if it's your own edge, you can set up near enemy models while setting being within 1" or your edge and wholly within 6" of your edge.

(Remember, you can't use the side of the board since they are set up within 6" of a particular edge, and the 1" rule only applies if the particular edge chosen is your own one.)

 Daedalus81 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
One last copy paste on this one because it's relevant to this topic:

Has it been brought up yet that you can bring a unit of 30 Ork Boyz in from strategic reserve on your turn 2 and deploy it directly into combat with anything on the table?

Remember, so far they haven't said 'wholly within' 1" they've said 'within' one inch.

new table is 44" wide. Ork boyz are 32mm bases now according to the GW site so 30 ork bases make up roughly 37.8 inches. Add the 1" from the table edge and 29 2" coherencies and you have 96.8" of deployment range for your boys. You could probably get something wrapped up with 10-15 boyz at your opponent's deployment line.

Hopefully, they've changed what 'within' means.

Hmm? Not sure what you're referring to. Rule says wholly w/i 6" of edge.

EDIT: Ok I see what you're saying, but I think it's just a sub-clause that allows direct engagement. You still have to satisfy the rest of the rule.

A good call, missed that one in my initial read of it. So within 1" but still wholly within 6". Allows some freedom but nothing stupid. Clever. I like it even more now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asmodai wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
One last copy paste on this one because it's relevant to this topic:

Has it been brought up yet that you can bring a unit of 30 Ork Boyz in from strategic reserve on your turn 2 and deploy it directly into combat with anything on the table?

Remember, so far they haven't said 'wholly within' 1" they've said 'within' one inch.

new table is 44" wide. Ork boyz are 32mm bases now according to the GW site so 30 ork bases make up roughly 37.8 inches. Add the 1" from the table edge and 29 2" coherencies and you have 96.8" of deployment range for your boys. You could probably get something wrapped up with 10-15 boyz at your opponent's deployment line.

Hopefully, they've changed what 'within' means.

They have to be set-up wholly within 6" of the battlefield edge per the Strategic Reserves rules.

Additionally, they can be set-up within 1" of enemy models if they're also within 1" of your battlefield edge.

The second part doesn't contradict the first. You still have to set up within 6" of an edge, but if it's your own edge, you can set up near enemy models while setting being within 1" or your edge and wholly within 6" of your edge.

(Remember, you can't use the side of the board since they are set up within 6" of a particular edge, and the 1" rule only applies if the particular edge chosen is your own one.)

Yeah, I read that as a totally seperate rule, rather than as an additional clause to the normal strat reserves rule. Oops.

ERJAK wrote:


A good call, missed that one in my initial read of it. So within 1" but still wholly within 6". Allows some freedom but nothing stupid. Clever. I like it even more now.

Yea, you gave a slight heart attack of the conga lines of yore.

Overall, seems like this will be a good check on gunlines. You can choose to just not be on the board. And if they deploy away from board edges so you can't outflank, then you'll be bunching them up into the center of their deployment zone, which could easily screw up fire lanes, LOS, objective capturing, etc. Even just the threat of outflanking is a big problem for gunlines.

I like the change, it adds tactical depth with little complexity.

Hmm, there might be some edge cases for the armies I play that this will be useful, but Space Wolves and Chaos Daemons already have their own strats that largely do this or better. But there might be a few cases where they can save CP (mostly around 9PL units for Daemons, and multiple low PL units for Wolves).

Another thing that might be funny with this rule from time to time might be, that at least from this preview fortifications don't seem to be excluded other than in 8th. Sure, it would be weird to DS something big like an imperial fortress wall, but a hidden bunker or trenchline "appearing" at a battlefield edge could even be fluffy. In a sense of hidden prepared positionions, that the enemy did not see there.

It's not that competetive, but getting a bunker that far outside your own deployment zone to hide inside might at least be a funny gimmick now and then.

So if you deploy a unit from your Strategic Reserves in your own deployment zone to counter an enemy unit there, you have to deploy the unit wholly within 6”. If you want to do what GW said and deploy within 1” of an enemy unit it also says you need to be within 1” of your table edge. Does that mean your unit is in a line hugging your table edge or one model needs to be within 1” of your table edge?

 Bhazakhain wrote:
So if you deploy a unit from your Strategic Reserves in your own deployment zone to counter an enemy unit there, you have to deploy the unit wholly within 6”. If you want to do what GW said and deploy within 1” of an enemy unit it also says you need to be within 1” of your table edge. Does that mean your unit is in a line hugging your table edge or one model needs to be within 1” of your table edge?

I'm not sure, I'm hoping that the full rules will clear this up, they have said that the rules will have numerous examples and pictures to help explain the rules. At the moment I'm expecting that the whole unit must be wholly within 6" of your own table edge and that in order to deploy in engagement range of an enemy model, the specific model you put in engagement range would need to be within 1" of your own table edge.

I'm guessing that the UNIT will have to be both wholly inside 6" AND within 1" of the edge. A single model on the edge will be fine. It already means that the opponent is 7" from your board edge (which with shorter boards it isn't that impossible).

Yeah I hope it’s cleared up, because if your entire unit has to be within 1” of your board edge that would be quite situational as no enemy would go so close.

I guess slow elite armies are in big trouble then. It is going to be even easier to pick off units that try to channel objectives if opponents can drop down 9"+ away from any side.

stop trying to make PL happen, its just so fetch

although use of the word wholly may bode well regarding auras and conga lines, assuming big models will just have to deploy touching the edge