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I read, a few weeks ago, in one of the faction focus articles that emperors children were least likely to of all the CSM legions to have cultists. I thought this an odd thing to say as EC love to have slaves who could become cultists and of all the gods human are way more likely to want to worship slaneesh as it’s all sex drugs and rock n roll.

Waddya think?

If I were to become a Chaos cultist my first choice of God to worship would be Slaanesh.

Just saying...

Which article was this and what was the actual context?

There is a difference between the EC making real use of cultists in battle and Slaanesh not having a lot of cultists.

Voss wrote:
Which article was this and what was the actual context?

There is a difference between the EC making real use of cultists in battle and Slaanesh not having a lot of cultists.

It was faction focus, how do they play in 9th edition. It was probably a CSM article. But the context was fluff as far as I could tell. I’ll see if I can dig it out

Faction focus: Heretic Astartes.

"Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury brought us plenty of amazing new Stratagems, but we’ve still found ourselves feeling obligated to bring along an endless sea of Chaos Cultists (a Tide of Traitors, you could say) to pay for them. While that may feel appropriate for the Alpha Legion or Word Bearers, it’s definitely less so for the Night Lords or Emperor’s Children. This also meant you were putting yourself at a disadvantage by not choosing to mix and match your Chaos army – after all, if you’re bringing three Battalion Detachments to the party, why not bring three different Legions and gain additional options?"

It's specifically about them not bringing them to the battlefield. Perfectionist astartes don't want a bunch of stubby unwashed messing up their perfect plan.

Maybe it's because they're not all that useful. If most Slaaneshi cultists are just in it for the fun, they might make for poor dedicated soldiers. If they can keep their cults secret, they might not even be that interested in overthrowing the Imperium, which would make them useless to CSM.

That just says that cultists are more common in the factions that specifically make extensive use of normal humans. Not that the EC in some way dislike cultists.

Having waves of people who LIKE being shot is pretty useful.

Now I would Like to see a Slaaneshi variant of the Blood Pack, a disciplined and professional force that can match a guard regiment in equipment and skill.

Perhaps they don't bring them to the battlefield because they prefer to use the cultists for other purposes

locarno24 wrote:
Faction focus: Heretic Astartes.

"Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury brought us plenty of amazing new Stratagems, but we’ve still found ourselves feeling obligated to bring along an endless sea of Chaos Cultists (a Tide of Traitors, you could say) to pay for them. While that may feel appropriate for the Alpha Legion or Word Bearers, it’s definitely less so for the Night Lords or Emperor’s Children. This also meant you were putting yourself at a disadvantage by not choosing to mix and match your Chaos army – after all, if you’re bringing three Battalion Detachments to the party, why not bring three different Legions and gain additional options?"

It's specifically about them not bringing them to the battlefield. Perfectionist astartes don't want a bunch of stubby unwashed messing up their perfect plan.

Yeah. The thin fluff context is 'not much use on the battlefield.'

But its mostly about 'top tier tournament playtester guy' ranting about metabuilds to max out CP for Stratagems.

Despite my earlier comment slaneesh isn’t just about about Sex drugs and rock n roll. I was just saying that as an obvious example of what might easily entice large amount of humans into the worship of slaneesh, even if they didn’t know it.

But slaneesh is also about perfection, including martial perfection. I could easily see frustrated commissars using slaneesh as a way to improve to fighting force by breaking the conventions of imperial warfare in the same way as EC did.

Also adulation is a big part of the temptation of slaneesh. What warlord wouldn’t want to see a wave of acolytes charging into battle chanting their name as if they were themselves a god

I plan to have a number of slaneesh cults operating around my army, including gluttons and those who simply think they are better than the rest of the imperium

Slaanesh has a boatload of cultists, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine that the Emperor's Children don't make use of them much.

The EC have a desire to achieve perfection (or their twisted view of it), and humans are a constant reminder of the weakness inherent in themselves. The only cultists it seems like they'd deign to work with would be ones that were particularly skilled or useful.

Pariah (Dan Abnett) shows an Emperor's Children marine, and his disdain for human beings. Even one of the most wealthy and connected cultists in the sector is only something he barely forces himself to work with.

Slaanesh does indeed inspire cults and a massive variation of them as people forget Slaanesh is also "an Artist" so creativity and free thinking are allowed if not outright encouraged. This makes a very wide net...you might find art in paintings...but you might also find melee combat an art or marksmanship.

I think this whole 'having less cults' is more from a gaming perspective rather than from a background point of view.

 Malika2 wrote:
I think this whole 'having less cults' is more from a gaming perspective rather than from a background point of view.

Its a little of both. The Emperor's Children legion doesn't particularly have much time for cultists (aside from 'playthings'), and the playtester/tourney player who wrote up the faction focus article regards cultists as just CP farms and thinks that its boring.

On the other tentacle, you could very well have a EC warband leader who thinks its important to winnow out the weak and put particularly impressive specimens through all manner of trials to find alternate paths to perfection or sensation.
Its a weird stance for GW to allow someone to take in their focus articles for the new edition as it seems tailored to stomp out creative thinking (or sales).

So this may be entirely head cannon, and just absolutely not how things work. But let me tell you about the Cult of Carnal Light.

The Cult Leader is drug chemist who trades in warp tainted compounds to alter consciousness. He surrounds himself with those who become addicted to his wares, balancing the compounds to achieve influence and control. He fights with a needle pistol, and upon recovery, his victims find themselves triggered by music, and they inevitably find their way back to the only one who can give them what they crave.

His lieutenant is a Rogue psyker whose smites enthrall rather than kill.

There are three other fighters when the crusade begins- among them, the exiled bastard children of the Thresher houses, AWOL guardsmen and common thugs.

As they recruit more and more of the Threshers, the corrupted gestalt consciousness of the Cult draws the eye of the warp, and whisper the secrets of summoning.

Lurking deep within the endless fields of whey-grain, sun fruit and cablegrass, the original Explorator landing sites await rediscovery. Among the ancient archeotech and ruin lies a gate to an ancient and idle Daemonic Forge.

If the Carnal Light mange to summon their Daemons, and waken the Unholy Forge, Slaanesh will send her Apostles and Masters of Possession, and the Infernal Enrapturess will play counterpoint to the Noise Marines, directing the whims of the corrupted consciousness of the agriworld that feeds an entire star system.

And when the tainted exports are shipped off world...

So a surprisingly good representation of a slaaneshi cult is the cult from Conan the Barbarian (they even worship a snake God).

They are hedonistic to the extreme including canibalism (cannibal soup orgy scene still gives me chills). They are warriors but show all the revels of excess. Sure it's closer to an AoS setting but you can get the feel.

Now I want to watch Conan again.

Slaaneshi cults are very common- as common as any other god's cult. For Emperor's Children specifically? Hard to say, as the fluff doesn't talk about it much. What I will say is that I wouldn't take a blurb from a WarCom article very seriously, especially when it's an absolute statement for the fluff.

In Lucius: The Faultless Blade, human conscripts were used quite frequently by Lucius' warband. They're used in the beginning of the book to capture other human crew during a boarding action against a World Eaters warband, and then they're used again in the climax- mutated by Lucius' apothecary and used as a meatshield to bait more Khorne marines into overextending and getting surrounded by Lucius and his marines.

All warbands can have a use for cultists, because at bare minimum they can be sacrificed for an objective. It's definitely fair to say that the EC likely don't have as many cultists as some of the other legions, but that's because most of the time the EC would much rather use cultists as test subjects and sacrifices instead.

Caradman Sturnn wrote:
Now I would Like to see a Slaaneshi variant of the Blood Pack, a disciplined and professional force that can match a guard regiment in equipment and skill.

perfectionists, probably a light infantry regiment obssessed with the art of the perfect kill?

However since R&H just got squatted...

Not Online!!! wrote:

Caradman Sturnn wrote:
Now I would Like to see a Slaaneshi variant of the Blood Pack, a disciplined and professional force that can match a guard regiment in equipment and skill.

perfectionists, probably a light infantry regiment obssessed with the art of the perfect kill?

However since R&H just got squatted...

When did R&H get squatted?

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199125_ChapterApprovedGTPackContent.jpg

see for yourself, so did corsairs and elysians seemingly, if the contents are accurate and gw didn't mess up.
but considering there are no blank non mentioned pages yes, i'd say R&H got curbed.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Slaanesh has a boatload of cultists, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine that the Emperor's Children don't make use of them much.

The EC have a desire to achieve perfection (or their twisted view of it), and humans are a constant reminder of the weakness inherent in themselves. The only cultists it seems like they'd deign to work with would be ones that were particularly skilled or useful.

Pariah (Dan Abnett) shows an Emperor's Children marine, and his disdain for human beings. Even one of the most wealthy and connected cultists in the sector is only something he barely forces himself to work with.

"The Children" are suitably awesome in that book. Must reread it.

Not Online!!! wrote:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199125_ChapterApprovedGTPackContent.jpg

see for yourself, so did corsairs and elysians seemingly, if the contents are accurate and gw didn't mess up.
but considering there are no blank non mentioned pages yes, i'd say R&H got curbed.

That... doesn't look good for the Elysians or R&H, I'll give you that. In the case of Corsairs, they didn't have an entry in the Contents page for the 2019 MFM, either - they were just listed in the Asuryani section.

Not saying there are blank pages, but the AdMech section in FW looks odd - listed as page 44, with the IG starting on 46, yet in MFM19 they are less than one column of data. It could just mean a full page illustration in the middle of the data, but that'd be weird. Can't see anything similar in the Chaos section, though.

 Dysartes wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/60040199125_ChapterApprovedGTPackContent.jpg

see for yourself, so did corsairs and elysians seemingly, if the contents are accurate and gw didn't mess up.
but considering there are no blank non mentioned pages yes, i'd say R&H got curbed.

That... doesn't look good for the Elysians or R&H, I'll give you that. In the case of Corsairs, they didn't have an entry in the Contents page for the 2019 MFM, either - they were just listed in the Asuryani section.

Not saying there are blank pages, but the AdMech section in FW looks odd - listed as page 44, with the IG starting on 46, yet in MFM19 they are less than one column of data. It could just mean a full page illustration in the middle of the data, but that'd be weird. Can't see anything similar in the Chaos section, though.

The removal of Elysians and Renegades is not too schocking though since both lines got axed by FW more than a year ago, we'd probably see similar things for the more recently pulled resin kits. And of course non of this prohibits, GW from simply re-creating Renegade-guard as a different faction.

I hope that we see new plastic releases for Guard this edition - there are so many cool regiments, and so few good infantry models.

Also, a Slaaneshi cult just sounds... exhausting. Not that any of the Chaos Gods are going to be fun to worship, but man. Always forcing yourself to plumb new depths of depravity in the search for perfection feels like a lot of work.

Archebius wrote:
I hope that we see new plastic releases for Guard this edition - there are so many cool regiments, and so few good infantry models.

Also, a Slaaneshi cult just sounds... exhausting. Not that any of the Chaos Gods are going to be fun to worship, but man. Always forcing yourself to plumb new depths of depravity in the search for perfection feels like a lot of work.

This isn't how it works...your idea of perfection might be swordsmanship or sculpture so it can be completely different from the pleasure side although it doesn't have to be..

Rebel4ever85 wrote:

Archebius wrote:
I hope that we see new plastic releases for Guard this edition - there are so many cool regiments, and so few good infantry models.

Also, a Slaaneshi cult just sounds... exhausting. Not that any of the Chaos Gods are going to be fun to worship, but man. Always forcing yourself to plumb new depths of depravity in the search for perfection feels like a lot of work.

This isn't how it works...your idea of perfection might be swordsmanship or sculpture so it can be completely different from the pleasure side although it doesn't have to be..

The perfection thing is a late 'add-on,' mostly HH related- and specific to the EC. It doesn't even rate a mention in the current daemon codex, or any that came before it.
'pursuit of earthly gratification and the overthrow of all decent behavior' is largely the whole of thing for Slaanesh. Older materials do actually indicate that you must go further and find new vices, as Archebius suggests. That's intentional, of course, as that's where a lot of Slaanesh champions fail and fall to spawndom.

Perfection, if its even a starting point, becomes obsession, and indulgence takes worshipers even further away from even the pretense of perfection. The Fabius trilogy even paints a very poor picture of the Third Legion. Most of the ones capable of thought (including Fulgrim) are entirely aware they've lost any claim to perfection, and turning to Slaanesh has ruined them for anything but the pursuit of indulgence.

Rebel4ever85 wrote:

Archebius wrote:
Also, a Slaaneshi cult just sounds... exhausting. Not that any of the Chaos Gods are going to be fun to worship, but man. Always forcing yourself to plumb new depths of depravity in the search for perfection feels like a lot of work.

This isn't how it works...your idea of perfection might be swordsmanship or sculpture so it can be completely different from the pleasure side although it doesn't have to be..

I'd argue that is pleasure, even though it might not be physical pleasure. Slaanesh is called the Prince of Pleasure, and the descriptions of the last days of the Aeldari empire, his Palace of Pleasure in the warp, and being "dedicated to the pursuit of earthly gratification and the overthrow of all decent behaviour" make it pretty clear what your run-of-the-mill Slaanesh worship looks like.

Even if you derive your pleasure and fulfillment from something like swordsmanship, devoting that to Slaanesh means that you're obsessed, pursuing perfection at all costs - in speed, strength, technique. That's not just practicing a few times a day, that's desperately trying to reach new levels of ability. Dueling until your hands are bleeding and torn. Experimenting with new and more potent drugs to enhance your senses for a single burst of performance, whatever it does to you. Expending whatever wealth and connections you have in the pursuit of better equipment, better trainers, ignoring friends, family, lovers, obligations until you've finally reached the pinnacle of perfection... which you never will, because you can always be a little faster, a little stronger, a little better. The deeper you go, the deeper the costs - maybe that whispering, homicidal-sounding sword really will make you the best. Maybe training to find the heart of a living person, fleeing down dark alleys to escape you, will hone your accuracy more than stationary dummies. As the people around you grow more concerned, try to help... maybe they are what holds you back from greatness? How can you know you've surpassed your father, that legendary duelist, until your whispering blade has tasted of his blood and is sated?

So yeah, I stand by what I said. Exhausting.

 CatachanDevil wrote:
Perhaps they don't bring them to the battlefield because they prefer to use the cultists for other purposes

Yea exactly, they abandoned the Seige of the Imperial Palace to sate their peversions on the Terran populace, and despite constant slave taking afterwards they burnt through their followers so quickly, due to their endless abuses, that they that they started raiding other Legions for fresh meat. That's what started the Chaos civil war that ended with the Emperors Children decimated and shattered as a Legion! It makes sense that they have few followers because no one can endure their attentions for long.

Obviously though the roving warbands of Emperors Children are only a small part of Slanesh's followers, there are few who are as extreme as them. There will be endless tides of cultists and mutants who follow the Prince of Pleasure not least because self indulgence is a popular vice.