Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

While there is a general consensus that both Fulgrim and Angron should get models, what about Lorgar and Perturabo? Lorgar could be a daemonic Abaddon with the ability to use different gods' abilities while Perturabo could be a walking tank that responds to daemon buffs and can be a CSM HQ.

I mean they could. They just haven't had any mentions within current storylines and so people don't really speculate to much on them currently.

GW need to make up their mind about undivided daemon princes first!

Is Belakor the only one? If so, what gods raised Lorgar and Pert?

Anything is possible and anything can be cool.

I see Angron and Fulgrim coming before Pert and Lorgar though. From a marketing perspective I think there's just a bigger appeal to cult units and cult armies.

Guilliman has a sword that can permanently kill daemons. With the "advancing storyline" I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them were killed off. Possibly in a throwaway fluff blurb about how awesome Guilliman is. Space marines have a new codex coming up soon too...

I'd love to see both done eventually. I'm a little biased towards Lorgar but a Lorgar v. Guilliman scenario would be awesome, and seeing how Lorgar views what the IoM has become after ten thousand years would be a real treat if handled by a good author. Which rules out the GW studio, but still.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Guilliman has a sword that can permanently kill daemons. With the "advancing storyline" I wouldn't be surprised if one or both of them were killed off. Possibly in a throwaway fluff blurb about how awesome Guilliman is. Space marines have a new codex coming up soon too...

That would categorically never happen. They're not going to kill off any of their finite number of Primarchs when there is money yet to be made from them

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I mean they could. They just haven't had any mentions within current storylines and so people don't really speculate to much on them currently.

Not true,

Lorgar has been mentioned in several books going back to the Gathering storm series. He's aparently left the eye of terror and has been "preaching" to worlds across the galaxy.

As for OP's question, I hope they revive all the dead ones and bring everyone back into the 41st M. It's going to seriously suck balls if GW is only going to print a few primarchs and leave others out.

There isn't any reason to bring back the dead ones other than to spite the player base and undermine their own lore.

There's plenty of missing loyalists and 'retired' daemon primarchs to play around with and foist into the current setting.

Voss wrote:
There isn't any reason to bring back the dead ones other than to spite the player base and undermine their own lore.

There's plenty of missing loyalists and 'retired' daemon primarchs to play around with and foist into the current setting.

There is a reason.

30K sold extremely well because all of these characters are loved and were able to be used on the table. GW isn't stupid, they know many Iron Hands players want a Ferrus Manus for their 40K army. Blood Angles players would jump to have Sanguinius and I'd kill to get Horus for my Black Legion.

Why do you think the eldar were given a "get out of death free card" with their new lore.

Lore should come second to this game, it should never drive the production and creation of models.

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:
There isn't any reason to bring back the dead ones other than to spite the player base and undermine their own lore.

There's plenty of missing loyalists and 'retired' daemon primarchs to play around with and foist into the current setting.

There is a reason.

30K sold extremely well because all of these characters are loved and were able to be used on the table. GW isn't stupid, they know many Iron Hands players want a Ferrus Manus for their 40K army. Blood Angles players would jump to have Sanguinius and I'd kill to get Horus for my Black Legion.

Main talk about 30k is it's being shuttered entirely. People love the lore more than they love 4 (or 5) specific dead dudemans showing up on the table for no reason.

Why do you think the eldar were given a "get out of death free card" with their new lore.

?? As far as I know, they weren't. Just some plot armor for some special characters. Joe Random Ynnari gets his head blown off, he stays dead.

Lore should come second to this game, it should never drive the production and creation of models.

Nope. It should be the central push for the production of models.
When GW ignores lore they create utter trainwrecks.

Coming from a Night Lords player since 3rd edition: Curze is dead, he should stay dead. It's what he wanted.

DEATH IS NOTHING COMPARED TO VINDICATION.
Konrad Curze

Voss wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:
There isn't any reason to bring back the dead ones other than to spite the player base and undermine their own lore.

There's plenty of missing loyalists and 'retired' daemon primarchs to play around with and foist into the current setting.

There is a reason.

30K sold extremely well because all of these characters are loved and were able to be used on the table. GW isn't stupid, they know many Iron Hands players want a Ferrus Manus for their 40K army. Blood Angles players would jump to have Sanguinius and I'd kill to get Horus for my Black Legion.

Main talk about 30k is it's being shuttered entirely. People love the lore more than they love 4 (or 5) specific dead dudemans showing up on the table for no reason.

Why do you think the eldar were given a "get out of death free card" with their new lore.

?? As far as I know, they weren't. Just some plot armor for some special characters. Joe Random Ynnari gets his head blown off, he stays dead.

Lore should come second to this game, it should never drive the production and creation of models.

Nope. It should be the central push for the production of models.
When GW ignores lore they create utter trainwrecks.

The game is C level scifi. I care about models, games. Most people I've met are in the same boat. The characters are kind of cool, but otherwise who gives a crap about the story.

The Ynnari god literally can resurrect any dead thing it wants to. IE we now have a confirmed character that provides a reason to bring characters thought dead, back into the game.

30K as a game, is failing because they failed to advance their rule set from the awful 7th rules. 8th blew the game to pieces with its better rules and people came back. Before 8th, people were jumping ship to 30K left and right. Most of the people in that community also happened to be big lire buffs and loved the idea of narrative gaming. I was in it for the last two years of 7th because of how bad 40K had become.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Coming from a Night Lords player since 3rd edition: Curze is dead, he should stay dead. It's what he wanted.

DEATH IS NOTHING COMPARED TO VINDICATION.
Konrad Curze

I'll give GW 100$ for a 40K Curze model.

"Capitalism is the driving force of the world" -me

 Stux wrote:
GW need to make up their mind about undivided daemon princes first!

Is Belakor the only one? If so, what gods raised Lorgar and Pert?

Malice / Malal, bring back the 5th chaos god!.

Though it would be fun to see pert not as a demon primarch but have him build his own demon primarch body out of living metal (necron/old ctan style)

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Coming from a Night Lords player since 3rd edition: Curze is dead, he should stay dead. It's what he wanted.

DEATH IS NOTHING COMPARED TO VINDICATION.
Konrad Curze

I agree. That said, I really like the fan theory (?) about the Corona Nox having a spirit stone (hence the Asuryani interest in it), that may contain the soul of Curze/The Night Haunter. Having whoever the wearer is possesed by the Primarch would be cool.

IMO Any/all of the Chas Primarchs should be possible in the game as they are all (?) active in the lore.

I could see one of the other Chaos Primarchs/Gods raising Curze out of sheer spite but keeping the loony from killing himself, never mind controlling him would be challenging

Perhaps Fabius would be involved

Loyalists - I would be very happy to see the Khan and Vulkan, I should be happy to see Russ but given the sheer levels of Wolf-Wolf Wolfiness likely involved I doubt I could even look at the model but something like the FW one would be good. Dorn seems possible, Much less keen on Sang and Fulgrim.

Bringing back dead primarchs is about as "bad"/controversial as removing old marines to make way for the primaris line (depends entirely on your point of view, hence the quotes).

It's clear that the lore is absolutely secondary to making money at this point (Just look at the end times), so it's really only a matter of time before everyone gets their primarch back.

It is kinda sad that the lore is being abused/used for profit like this though. Old fluff doesn't seem to be the safe canonicity that it was for decades.

Oh well, nothing to do now but look forward to getting my 40K version of Krazy Konrad Curze B)

Edit: just make the fluff actually good for when each primarch comes back and everyone will be much happier! None of that factions jobbing crap that Matt Ward spread all over the Grey Knights and his "Ultramarines" codex. I don't want Sanguinius to come back if he takes a massive dookie on the Tyranids, or the Lion to come back if his lore is just wiping the floor completely with the Night Lords again. Ditto for Dorn on the Iron Warriors, Russ on the Thousand Sons (seriously, WHY do the Wolves even have anything against those guys? They kick the gak out of them constantly, it's not actually entertaining to read when the animosity doesn't even make sense), although I would accept Manus beating the Emperors Children to even up that score.

 Mr Morden wrote:
IMO Any/all of the Chas Primarchs should be possible in the game as they are all (?) active in the lore.

At best six and a half are active in the lore, maybe seven - the Alpharius/Omegon situation is a mess when it comes to these discussions.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I could see one of the other Chaos Primarchs/Gods raising Curze out of sheer spite but keeping the loony from killing himself, never mind controlling him would be challenging

Perhaps Fabius would be involved

Why waste the energy on someone who doesn't want to live?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Loyalists - I would be very happy to see the Khan and Vulkan, I should be happy to see Russ but given the sheer levels of Wolf-Wolf Wolfiness likely involved I doubt I could even look at the model but something like the FW one would be good. Dorn seems possible, Much less keen on Sang and Fulgrim.

I'm curious as to what the HH Khan model will eventually look like - I'm confident it'll be good, don't get me wrong, but it has been a long time coming.

Russ & Lion are my two most probable, with Corax, Vulkan and Khan in the second tier. Dorn has the whole "is he living or dead?" question hanging over his head, due to inconsistent background, while AFAIK it is unclear what happened to Vulkan after he tangled with The Great Beast.

Ferrus (I'm assuming a typo there, Mr Morden) and the Angel need to stay dead, though.

 warmaster21 wrote:

 Stux wrote:
GW need to make up their mind about undivided daemon princes first!

Is Belakor the only one? If so, what gods raised Lorgar and Pert?

Malice / Malal, bring back the 5th chaos god!.

Though it would be fun to see pert not as a demon primarch but have him build his own demon primarch body out of living metal (necron/old ctan style)

Seeing as chaos is seemingly contiguous between 40k and Sigmar, why not the Horned Rat?

Kind of makes sense for pert actually! Lots of sieging and bastardising technology.

a fat guy wrote:
Bringing back dead primarchs is about as "bad"/controversial as removing old marines to make way for the primaris line (depends entirely on your point of view, hence the quotes).

It's clear that the lore is absolutely secondary to making money at this point (Just look at the end times), so it's really only a matter of time before everyone gets their primarch back.

It is kinda sad that the lore is being abused/used for profit like this though. Old fluff doesn't seem to be the safe canonicity that it was for decades.
.

I don't agree with your assertions here. GW is being far more conservative with reintroduction of primarchs than you're giving them credit for. A lot of people have been surprised that the Lion hasn't happened. It was fully expected with both their last codex, their PA book and after the gathering storm stuff, where the Rock was moving around and people were poking in various corners.

If it's being used and absurd for profit, why aren't Fulgrim, Angron, Russ and Lion already here, and the third wave impending? Those four have been expected for years now, yet somehow we're still in the dark if they're actually happening at all!


Personally I find their restraint pretty heartening. It's more stuff that belongs in epic scale, at best.

Ive always envisioned Perturabo as a Nurgle follower, due to his bitterness, attrition, and all the Technovirus Scrapcode research and Obliterator projects, even working with Mortsrion to perfect it.

But what about hybrid Pantheons? Perturabo could reflect a different aspect of Nurgle and Khorne, rather than blood and rot.

Lorgar seems drawn to Tzeentch with his scheming and quest for knowledge but also Slaanesh in his need for followers and gratification.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Ive always envisioned Perturabo as a Nurgle follower, due to his bitterness, attrition, and all the Technovirus Scrapcode research and Obliterator projects, even working with Mortsrion to perfect it.

But what about hybrid Pantheons? Perturabo could reflect a different aspect of Nurgle and Khorne, rather than blood and rot.

Lorgar seems drawn to Tzeentch with his scheming and quest for knowledge but also Slaanesh in his need for followers and gratification.

Yeah, that would be a fun take.

You can preserve the uniqueness of being undivided, but still do something different.

The brooding, calculating rage that would sit between nurgle and khorne would be a good Perturabo fit. And I also agree Tzeentch and Slaanesh would well represent someone at the centre of heretical machinations and cults of personality.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I mean they could. They just haven't had any mentions within current storylines and so people don't really speculate to much on them currently.

Perturabo and his boys recently got their butts kicked by the Death Guard. He is back in 8th edition.

 Togusa wrote:
The game is C level scifi. I care about models, games. Most people I've met are in the same boat. The characters are kind of cool, but otherwise who gives a crap about the story.

The Ynnari god literally can resurrect any dead thing it wants to. IE we now have a confirmed character that provides a reason to bring characters thought dead, back into the game.

30K as a game, is failing because they failed to advance their rule set from the awful 7th rules. 8th blew the game to pieces with its better rules and people came back. Before 8th, people were jumping ship to 30K left and right. Most of the people in that community also happened to be big lire buffs and loved the idea of narrative gaming. I was in it for the last two years of 7th because of how bad 40K had become.

Strongly disagree with most of your statements in this thread.
40k is a rich settings with lots of interesting lore. Not that I looked for it, but from all the random exposure I had in my life to different settings, nothing ever came close.

Horus Heresy book series is going very strong for several years. People celebrate animations like Helsreach or Astartes on Youtube.
From my personal experience, most people are very interested in the 40k lore. Haven't met a single one who was like "eh, whatever, I'm just here for the models".

 Togusa wrote:

Voss wrote:
There isn't any reason to bring back the dead ones other than to spite the player base and undermine their own lore.

There's plenty of missing loyalists and 'retired' daemon primarchs to play around with and foist into the current setting.

There is a reason.

30K sold extremely well because all of these characters are loved and were able to be used on the table. GW isn't stupid, they know many Iron Hands players want a Ferrus Manus for their 40K army. Blood Angles players would jump to have Sanguinius and I'd kill to get Horus for my Black Legion.

Real life counter argument: Endless amounts of time have been spent on the Batman vs. Superman argument. Giving the fans what they wanted by making it into a movie still resulted in a bad movie.

Haven't met a single one who was like "eh, whatever, I'm just here for the models".

Let me introduce you to Games Workshop: it doesn't care about the lore, or the rules; and is seemingly only interested in models.

 Stux wrote:


Seeing as chaos is seemingly contiguous between 40k and Sigmar, why not the Horned Rat?

If they bring in the Horned rat they need to bring in the Hrud

 warmaster21 wrote:

 Stux wrote:


Seeing as chaos is seemingly contiguous between 40k and Sigmar, why not the Horned Rat?

If they bring in the Horned rat they need to bring in the Hrud

The Hrurned Hrud

Joking aside, I would rather both Lorgar and Perturabo be elevated by The big four than by a separate entity. I still don’t understand why this has become such a big issue.

It's not so much a big issue for me as it is a point of amusement.

If GW just say "actually in 40k Belakor is not the only undivided Daemon Prince" then fine! He's nowhere near as important to the narrative as Lorgar and Perturabo, and so their narrative needs should take precedence.

Its the feeling that GW instead seem to just skirt around the issue that I find quite funny!

No. But that's just my opinion, I couldn't give less of a feth about primarchs and have never found any of them anything but irritating in game, and I despise the way that ultra-mega-super-characters have shrunk the game world from feeling like a vast, uncaring universe full of infinite possibilities to something akin to Transformers: Beast Wars where anything that happens is due to these dozen-odd dudes.

The game needs less super heavy models, not more. They're not fun to fight against, and they're impossible to balance. Luckily GW has mostly erred on the side of making them bad since the Guilliman fiasco, but it'd be better if they just weren't in the game at all, at least not in matched play.