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the_scotsman 790201 10874065 wrote:

I mean, yes. GW does produce games where there is no manufactured discontent like this. GW even produces a game you can play with your current WH40k army with no manufactured discontent.

People dont like it, because the feeling of getting your new stuff and finally feeling like you can win games again is fun. For people to have that fun, other people need to be in the incubationary period where their stuff is aging, and they're waiting, and they don't get the special goodies.

There is absolutely positively 0 reason why GW could not fix problems like:

But some things are strange. First for an entire edition they make falchions the only, not even the best, valid option to take on strikes. the 9th comes and they make a pair of falchions 4pts. Now I don't care, my models are all halabards and sword, But If i had an optimised GK army, and now was told that I am suppose to cut off the hands and weapon from all my GK models and replace them with other weapons, and then repaint them. I would be really unhappy about it. And it is not like halabards are a new thing. GW just decied that instead of balancing the weapons against each other, they are just going to make the one that was used by everyone not worth taking.. And there are no primaris GK around the corner to make the whole problem non valid.

When orcs characters were repalced by worse buggy ones, they weren't very happy about it either. They were so unhappy, that GW had to cave in and put the shoka mek in the PA book.

auticus wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Auticus, Imma echo the calls for you to actually SHOW the posts of people complaining it's "too balanced". You've repeated that claim multiple times, in various threads, and yet never showed it.

I have dug numerous quotes out of dakka and other forums multiple times over the course of posting here and in other places. And each time it is rebutted by "yeah but thats just a handful of people that doesn't count". So ... no. I'm not going to spend time digging through forums to find the equivalent of "balance is boring" again for you so the goalposts can get moved and be told it doesn't count because its just one or two people or whatever. You can have a looky lieu with the search function or dig through facebook or Bell of Lost Souls comments or Warseer comments as well as I can if you're really interested in studying the topic.

Well, just gonna add that I’m another who has seen you constantly lean on this claim in multiple threads across dakka, and have somehow missed all the times you posted evidence too. Secondly, if you claim it was a majority of people “and that’s just what us wargamers really want deep down” but can only support your claims with one or two statements, that’s not moving the goalposts, that’s a fair dismissal of your claim. I can find one or two people who believe any stupid statement. Third - what possible reason would me and JNA have to lie here? Sure, slayer is one of the worst debaters on this forum and does almost nothing in good faith - but myself, and I’m pretty sure JNA, are just curious if you what you say has any real truth behind it? Because until you support it with convincing evidence, it does seem pretty outlandish, so the onus is on you to either do this or just outright respond that you won’t source any of your claims we just have to take your word for it lol.

the_scotsman wrote:
Reading this post gave me big "guy comes up to me at the bus stop and explains in extreme detail how a minor local government clerk I've never heard of has bugged his house and watches his every move" energy.

"It's all Gary Schlabotnik, you see, HE'S the one behind this, I TOL EM but they wouldn't listen to me I go shout in the lobby of the RMV every tuesday I do but what do they do? eh? They throws me out every time, filthyfrigginknifeears they do!"

I'm still joking, it was intentionally crazy, my avatar is a Necron I'm just playing up faction hatred for laughs. I really enjoyed the thing you wrote, you should get into creative writing.

@Auticus I cannot find your post where you answered my question after using the Dakka search function for "too balanced" and "azyr comp", all I can find is you saying that you have heard a lot of complaints, but not one example of an actual complaint from anyone complaining about the thing that you say everyone is complaining about.

Sure. Next time someone complains that too much balance is like chess and go play chess instead, I'll be sure to tag you all in it and scream it out for you.

You won't find the answer to azyr comp in dakka because there isn't much about azyr comp in dakka. I said that SPECIFICALLY pertaining to azyr comp and the complaints about too balanced that was the AZYR COMP facebook group that was active in 2015-2016, when fan comp was a thing before it was tanked by official points.

Its been a long long time but bell of lost souls had an article about azyr comp in august of 2015 that had a long comment list as well that may also contain some negative commentary about balance as well, though I can't confirm that since I have nto seen that thread in 5 years. I think warseer had something on it too but i was banned from warseer for promoting age of sigmar (that was considered trolling) so I don't know what the commentary there was like since I was not the one promoting azyr on warseer, that was one of our other tsters.

 auticus wrote:
Sure. Next time someone complains that too much balance is like chess and go play chess instead, I'll be sure to tag you all in it and scream it out for you.

You won't find the answer to azyr comp in dakka because there isn't much about azyr comp in dakka. I said that SPECIFICALLY pertaining to azyr comp and the complaints about too balanced that was the AZYR COMP facebook group that was active in 2015-2016, when fan comp was a thing before it was tanked by official points.

Its been a long long time but bell of lost souls had an article about azyr comp in august of 2015 that had a long comment list as well that may also contain some negative commentary about balance as well, though I can't confirm that since I have nto seen that thread in 5 years. I think warseer had something on it too but i was banned from warseer for promoting age of sigmar (that was considered trolling) so I don't know what the commentary there was like since I was not the one promoting azyr on warseer, that was one of our other tsters.

I've seen this so many times on this board. I just quit engaging them.

Karol wrote:

the_scotsman 790201 10874065 wrote:

I mean, yes. GW does produce games where there is no manufactured discontent like this. GW even produces a game you can play with your current WH40k army with no manufactured discontent.

People dont like it, because the feeling of getting your new stuff and finally feeling like you can win games again is fun. For people to have that fun, other people need to be in the incubationary period where their stuff is aging, and they're waiting, and they don't get the special goodies.

There is absolutely positively 0 reason why GW could not fix problems like:

But some things are strange. First for an entire edition they make falchions the only, not even the best, valid option to take on strikes. the 9th comes and they make a pair of falchions 4pts. Now I don't care, my models are all halabards and sword, But If i had an optimised GK army, and now was told that I am suppose to cut off the hands and weapon from all my GK models and replace them with other weapons, and then repaint them. I would be really unhappy about it. And it is not like halabards are a new thing. GW just decied that instead of balancing the weapons against each other, they are just going to make the one that was used by everyone not worth taking.. And there are no primaris GK around the corner to make the whole problem non valid.

When orcs characters were repalced by worse buggy ones, they weren't very happy about it either. They were so unhappy, that GW had to cave in and put the shoka mek in the PA book.

It's not strange at all. It's marketing 101.

Let me ask you a question - why does every single hugely popular video game now have a version you can play for free? Why can I download Fortnite, or League of Legends, and have the ability to play the game for years and years and years without spending a buck? Isn't that a huge undercut of the company's profits? How are these the companies that are making the some of the most profitable games in the entire world, giving gak away for free?

It's because the free mode is designed for you to be frustrated.

You're supposed to be stuck with sub-optimal choices, sub-optimal stuff, not able to play as competitively as before because your collection of guns, or champions, or whatever isn't deep enough. They know that just letting you buy golden bullets is a PR nightmare, but changing something that was previously underpowered and making it the best and taking the previously best thing and making it the worst? That'll be met with a chorus of hallelujahs from your player base! Just the other day you were posting yourself about how great it was that the Eldar were underpowered this edition, and how great that is, and how great that Grey Knights have now gone from one of the worst factions to one of the best. All the fans love that! It's exhilarating!

And now the person with the half-finished grey knights army looks at their shelf and has a reason to buy new models for them, and the person with the eldar army thinks "well...maybe if I buy some wraithblades, I can still have good games..." frustration drives sales.

Not Online!!! wrote:
and yet that works how well?

i will tell you how long it works well, until you don't run into SM players, because massed AP-1 /AP-2 will make that an excercise off futility.

I've had very few problems. They tend to panic when 6 Oblits deepstrike in their backfield.

 Togusa wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
and yet that works how well?

i will tell you how long it works well, until you don't run into SM players, because massed AP-1 /AP-2 will make that an excercise off futility.

I've had very few problems. They tend to panic when 6 Oblits deepstrike in their backfield.

I don't panic. I know that 85% of my BA are going to get slaughtered every game. 6 oblits is just one of many ways this can happen.

Karol wrote:

the_scotsman 790201 10874065 wrote:

I mean, yes. GW does produce games where there is no manufactured discontent like this. GW even produces a game you can play with your current WH40k army with no manufactured discontent.

People dont like it, because the feeling of getting your new stuff and finally feeling like you can win games again is fun. For people to have that fun, other people need to be in the incubationary period where their stuff is aging, and they're waiting, and they don't get the special goodies.

There is absolutely positively 0 reason why GW could not fix problems like:

But some things are strange. First for an entire edition they make falchions the only, not even the best, valid option to take on strikes. the 9th comes and they make a pair of falchions 4pts. Now I don't care, my models are all halabards and sword, But If i had an optimised GK army, and now was told that I am suppose to cut off the hands and weapon from all my GK models and replace them with other weapons, and then repaint them. I would be really unhappy about it. And it is not like halabards are a new thing. GW just decied that instead of balancing the weapons against each other, they are just going to make the one that was used by everyone not worth taking.. And there are no primaris GK around the corner to make the whole problem non valid.

When orcs characters were repalced by worse buggy ones, they weren't very happy about it either. They were so unhappy, that GW had to cave in and put the shoka mek in the PA book.

And that's why you magnetize every special weapon a marine can take. That way you're future proofed to every edition change. And can also switch your list around however you like without having to buy additional models.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So something I want to remind people is that we should be disagreeing with the statements made by the playtesters, not attacking them.

It's fine to disagree with people, but once we start slapping labels on them like "shills" we're not addressing their points, we're just acting in bad faith.

I personally buy the theory because GW has a track record in the past of balancing books internally, but rarely balancing them exterally. Obviously they did a lot of external balancing in 8th, but there is the chance that the devs feel that the factions were no longer balanced internally like they should be, leading to a rough pass to adjust things both for internal balance, and perhaps for the missions, but left external balance alone as the shifting meta from the changes to the game already threw that out of whack and they want more info before they adjust those points.

As such we could see some massive points shifts across the game as they push to keep internal balance the same but drastically rework things relative to each other.

Or we could be going back to a 3rd to 5th design philosophy where internal balance is the main focus to keep the faction "feeling" correct and external balance is largely ignored.

Honestly, I'm not really sure amd unless GW starts communicating more about why they make the changes they do, all we can do is make guesses at what they're doing and why.

This doesn't make sense in the context of GW making so many bad units much much worse. I mean, unless we're thinking GW just hates aspect warriors and wants no one to use them in an eldar army.

GW flatly, didn't balance very much in the update. They cut corners and it shows.

Balancing units relative to each other and pointing them based on lore justifications (such as a 3+ armour save being rare for Craftworlds so it needs to be expensive) is something GW has done for years. Points traditionally have been more about trying to make armies feel a certain way over making them balanced against each other.

As I said earlier in the thread, I don't hate this balance approach for inner codex balancing, but when it comes to external balance then we need a fair bit of rules to fill the gap or GW ia going to have to make another shift upwarss that allows these units to be better relatve to each other while fitting into their roles inside of their own codex.

Striking scorpians aren't the only aspect to be gak upon. Almost all the aspects are trash. Except the ones that were already viable in 8th. You know, dark reapers and shining spears. Reapers being a 3 plus save unit.

This idea that GW has some firm grasp of the balance they want is laughable. They simply did not want to pay writers or give them the time to flesh out the points properly. Indeed, I suspect the rules designers were maybe a third of the way through actually doing a unit by unit balance pass after the algorithm hit it and GW went "Okay, it has to be out now" and they're like "it's not done" and GW is "feth it, deadlines. No pandemic will stop us".

Aspect warriors should have plasma shields like protoss at this point. Why the feth not?

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Spoiler:

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
9th edition is probably the first one which is going to be able to collect any meaningful data.

In 8th there was a try to do that, but due to the fragmentation of formats, the data was useless. ITC data was not accepted by ETC or CA players, CA data was not accepted by ETC and ITC players and ETC data was not accepeted by CA and ITC players.

Even a nice effort like 40stats was made into something useless due to that.

If GW can nail their app and make something that competes with BCP while tracking mission objectives in games they could very easily gain a lot of information on how the game is being played, which could lead to them drilling down into the "why" it's being played that way, resulting in a better balanced game.

That requires them to really dial the app in and not screw it up though.

Heh. That ship already sailed.

But 'why' isn't really a question that an app like that can reach with data collection. Is it points, is it price, is it aesthetics, is it meta, is it something else? The only way to answer that outside of surveys (which have their own issue) is toggle each of those variables, and that isn't practical, or even achievable at all in several cases.

Nah, that ship can still pull into port if they do a better job than BCP, which has known issues all its own. Like the regular crashing issues when large events are going on.

Paper solves that problem. If that's you're only concern, don't use the 40k app or whatever BCP is.

BCP or Best Coast Pairings is required for a number of major tournaments, and some minor ones. TOs aren't taking paper lists as often anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

And that's why you magnetize every special weapon a marine can take. That way you're future proofed to every edition change. And can also switch your list around however you like without having to buy additional models.

[Conspiracy]That sounds just like what someome in the back pocket of Big Magnet would say! Clearly it's all a plot to seek more magnets! They don't want you to know but it's truuuuuuue![/Conspiracy]

More seriously, while I'm all for magnetizing stiff like Carnifex options because he's a big chonky lad who works well with that (plus waving his talons around is a lot of fun) on smaller models I don't like the fiddly hassle.

I've never done a magnetization I later regretted. I even did my rubrics, on the off-chance that warp flamers ever become good.

stratigo wrote:
Striking scorpians aren't the only aspect to be gak upon. Almost all the aspects are trash. Except the ones that were already viable in 8th. You know, dark reapers and shining spears. Reapers being a 3 plus save unit.

This idea that GW has some firm grasp of the balance they want is laughable. They simply did not want to pay writers or give them the time to flesh out the points properly. Indeed, I suspect the rules designers were maybe a third of the way through actually doing a unit by unit balance pass after the algorithm hit it and GW went "Okay, it has to be out now" and they're like "it's not done" and GW is "feth it, deadlines. No pandemic will stop us".

Oh I know how bad they are. I've been working on Iyanden for a couple weeks now and had to laugh that I lucked into the halfway decent Craftworld option for this edition.

My point wasn't that GW isn't really trying to balance anything. They're trying to adjust the look and feel of an army to fall into a certain design when it's put on the board. For most armies this balances the options internally, but external balance is a crapshoot at best.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

auticus wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Auticus, Imma echo the calls for you to actually SHOW the posts of people complaining it's "too balanced". You've repeated that claim multiple times, in various threads, and yet never showed it.

I have dug numerous quotes out of dakka and other forums multiple times over the course of posting here and in other places. And each time it is rebutted by "yeah but thats just a handful of people that doesn't count". So ... no. I'm not going to spend time digging through forums to find the equivalent of "balance is boring" again for you so the goalposts can get moved and be told it doesn't count because its just one or two people or whatever. You can have a looky lieu with the search function or dig through facebook or Bell of Lost Souls comments or Warseer comments as well as I can if you're really interested in studying the topic.

Well, just gonna add that I’m another who has seen you constantly lean on this claim in multiple threads across dakka, and have somehow missed all the times you posted evidence too. Secondly, if you claim it was a majority of people “and that’s just what us wargamers really want deep down” but can only support your claims with one or two statements, that’s not moving the goalposts, that’s a fair dismissal of your claim. I can find one or two people who believe any stupid statement. Third - what possible reason would me and JNA have to lie here? Sure, slayer is one of the worst debaters on this forum and does almost nothing in good faith - but myself, and I’m pretty sure JNA, are just curious if you what you say has any real truth behind it? Because until you support it with convincing evidence, it does seem pretty outlandish, so the onus is on you to either do this or just outright respond that you won’t source any of your claims we just have to take your word for it lol.

Auticus does not and has never had any real points. His entire existence on this forum is to play 'no true scotsman' with wargaming while having some of the dumbest ideas and weakest takes imaginable.

I still vividly remember him claiming over and over again that an AoS spell that did an average of 1 mortal wound to a standard 6" move unit (i.e. roll 2d6 compare subtract the movement value from the result, do mortal wounds equal to the difference) was somehow massively superior(and brokenly op) compared to a spell in the same army that gave a unit with ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY ATTACKS AP-1 and damage 2 instead of 1.

Martel732 wrote:
Aspect warriors should have plasma shields like protoss at this point. Why the feth not?

Nah. Holo Fields like the old Eldar Titan rules. Let 'em get saves versus your hits before you roll to wound (never let it be better than a 4+ though).

yukishiro1 wrote:
I've never done a magnetization I later regretted. I even did my rubrics, on the off-chance that warp flamers ever become good.

I have. Completely destroyed the weapon I was trying to magnetize. I just use superglue instead of plastic glue for arms so I can snap them off later.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I've never done a magnetization I later regretted. I even did my rubrics, on the off-chance that warp flamers ever become good.

I never said I regret magnetizing options, I'm just saying with some things it's a fiddly pain in the backside I'd rather not muck with.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Spoiler:

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
9th edition is probably the first one which is going to be able to collect any meaningful data.

In 8th there was a try to do that, but due to the fragmentation of formats, the data was useless. ITC data was not accepted by ETC or CA players, CA data was not accepted by ETC and ITC players and ETC data was not accepeted by CA and ITC players.

Even a nice effort like 40stats was made into something useless due to that.

If GW can nail their app and make something that competes with BCP while tracking mission objectives in games they could very easily gain a lot of information on how the game is being played, which could lead to them drilling down into the "why" it's being played that way, resulting in a better balanced game.

That requires them to really dial the app in and not screw it up though.

Heh. That ship already sailed.

But 'why' isn't really a question that an app like that can reach with data collection. Is it points, is it price, is it aesthetics, is it meta, is it something else? The only way to answer that outside of surveys (which have their own issue) is toggle each of those variables, and that isn't practical, or even achievable at all in several cases.

Nah, that ship can still pull into port if they do a better job than BCP, which has known issues all its own. Like the regular crashing issues when large events are going on.

Paper solves that problem. If that's your only concern, don't use the 40k app or whatever BCP is.

BCP or Best Coast Pairings is required for a number of major tournaments, and some minor ones. TOs aren't taking paper lists as often anymore.

I don't know what to tell you. If it has 'regular crashing issues,' as you say, it seems obvious that they shouldn't use it.

It's definitely a pain, but it's not nearly as much of a pain as having to buy and paint new models or break your old ones when GW decides that in the new edition they'll switch what's good and what's bad.

the_scotsman wrote:

Karol wrote:

the_scotsman 790201 10874065 wrote:

I mean, yes. GW does produce games where there is no manufactured discontent like this. GW even produces a game you can play with your current WH40k army with no manufactured discontent.

People dont like it, because the feeling of getting your new stuff and finally feeling like you can win games again is fun. For people to have that fun, other people need to be in the incubationary period where their stuff is aging, and they're waiting, and they don't get the special goodies.

There is absolutely positively 0 reason why GW could not fix problems like:

But some things are strange. First for an entire edition they make falchions the only, not even the best, valid option to take on strikes. the 9th comes and they make a pair of falchions 4pts. Now I don't care, my models are all halabards and sword, But If i had an optimised GK army, and now was told that I am suppose to cut off the hands and weapon from all my GK models and replace them with other weapons, and then repaint them. I would be really unhappy about it. And it is not like halabards are a new thing. GW just decied that instead of balancing the weapons against each other, they are just going to make the one that was used by everyone not worth taking.. And there are no primaris GK around the corner to make the whole problem non valid.

When orcs characters were repalced by worse buggy ones, they weren't very happy about it either. They were so unhappy, that GW had to cave in and put the shoka mek in the PA book.

It's not strange at all. It's marketing 101.

Let me ask you a question - why does every single hugely popular video game now have a version you can play for free? Why can I download Fortnite, or League of Legends, and have the ability to play the game for years and years and years without spending a buck? Isn't that a huge undercut of the company's profits? How are these the companies that are making the some of the most profitable games in the entire world, giving gak away for free?

It's because the free mode is designed for you to be frustrated.

You're supposed to be stuck with sub-optimal choices, sub-optimal stuff, not able to play as competitively as before because your collection of guns, or champions, or whatever isn't deep enough. They know that just letting you buy golden bullets is a PR nightmare, but changing something that was previously underpowered and making it the best and taking the previously best thing and making it the worst? That'll be met with a chorus of hallelujahs from your player base! Just the other day you were posting yourself about how great it was that the Eldar were underpowered this edition, and how great that is, and how great that Grey Knights have now gone from one of the worst factions to one of the best. All the fans love that! It's exhilarating!

And now the person with the half-finished grey knights army looks at their shelf and has a reason to buy new models for them, and the person with the eldar army thinks "well...maybe if I buy some wraithblades, I can still have good games..." frustration drives sales.

This is just factually wrong though. I can't speak for fortnite but League of Legends is the exact same game whether you pay a billion dollars or nothing. The only thing money gets you that's even close to power is more champions and for 99% of players it's a far better strategy to just play the champions you have until you're good at them rather than chase so called 'op champs'.

I've never bought anything with money in league that wasn't purely cosmetic and never once felt like I was at a disadvantage. Same with DOTA, Overwatch, and every other halfway playable Esports title(minus the CCGs because Hearthstone and every variety of magic is just about as pay to win as games get).

The part about every popular game having a free version is wrong too but that's more nuanced than I want to get in a warhammer thread.

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Spoiler:

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
9th edition is probably the first one which is going to be able to collect any meaningful data.

In 8th there was a try to do that, but due to the fragmentation of formats, the data was useless. ITC data was not accepted by ETC or CA players, CA data was not accepted by ETC and ITC players and ETC data was not accepeted by CA and ITC players.

Even a nice effort like 40stats was made into something useless due to that.

If GW can nail their app and make something that competes with BCP while tracking mission objectives in games they could very easily gain a lot of information on how the game is being played, which could lead to them drilling down into the "why" it's being played that way, resulting in a better balanced game.

That requires them to really dial the app in and not screw it up though.

Heh. That ship already sailed.

But 'why' isn't really a question that an app like that can reach with data collection. Is it points, is it price, is it aesthetics, is it meta, is it something else? The only way to answer that outside of surveys (which have their own issue) is toggle each of those variables, and that isn't practical, or even achievable at all in several cases.

Nah, that ship can still pull into port if they do a better job than BCP, which has known issues all its own. Like the regular crashing issues when large events are going on.

Paper solves that problem. If that's you're only concern, don't use the 40k app or whatever BCP is.

BCP or Best Coast Pairings is required for a number of major tournaments, and some minor ones. TOs aren't taking paper lists as often anymore.

I don't know what to tell you. If it has 'regular crashing issues,' as you say, it seems obvious that they shouldn't use it.

It only has that problem during especially large events, but it's happened more than once resulting in some complaints.

My point was if GW can make something that can do the same thing for them while also making it more stable, then they'd have people subscribing just to play in tournaments, much like how people suscribe to BCP to play in tournaments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
It's definitely a pain, but it's not nearly as much of a pain as having to buy and paint new models or break your old ones when GW decides that in the new edition they'll switch what's good and what's bad.

Perhaps. I'm not faulting anyone for it, I'm just saying that not everyone likes doing it.

More back on topic: I don't think GW will ever hit "perfect" balance, nor do I think that is a goal. I do think they want the game to be more balanced so more options are fun to play with, but fun isn't always the same as competitive (and a lot of ultra competetive strats are pretty unfun to play against) which might be part of the disconnect between their design goals and the community's expecations of what those goals should be.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Aspect warriors should have plasma shields like protoss at this point. Why the feth not?

Nah. Holo Fields like the old Eldar Titan rules. Let 'em get saves versus your hits before you roll to wound (never let it be better than a 4+ though).

Oh that reminds me, I once did regret trying to magnetize some plasma guns I had printed from a 3D printer, because the plastic they use for that stuff is brittle and breaks easily if you try to drill holes in it.

GW plastic tolerates drilling really well though. Don't let it be said that I'm always anti-GW.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Aspect warriors should have plasma shields like protoss at this point. Why the feth not?

Nah. Holo Fields like the old Eldar Titan rules. Let 'em get saves versus your hits before you roll to wound (never let it be better than a 4+ though).

Oh that reminds me, I once did regret trying to magnetize some plasma guns I had printed from a 3D printer, because the plastic they use for that stuff is brittle and breaks easily if you try to drill holes in it.

GW plastic tolerates drilling really well though. Don't let it be said that I'm always anti-GW.

We're onto you and your anti-Giant Whale bias.

More seriously, they do have good plastics. Quality keeps getting better and better too.

The models are definitely the best part of what GW does. If only they could make rules as high quality as their models, I'd be a happy camper.

The lore is up there with the models for me, but in the case of 40k that’s gotten kinda bad in lots of instances


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Specifically PA

yukishiro1 wrote:
The models are definitely the best part of what GW does. If only they could make rules as high quality as their models, I'd be a happy camper.

I'm solidly in your camp.

 Nitro Zeus wrote:
The lore is up there with the models for me, but in the case of 40k that’s gotten kinda bad in lots of instances


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The good part of the 40k lore has always been the world-building. The weak part has always been the particular stories, especially when they are being created out of thin air for marketing purposes. Unfortunately, they are learning harder and harder on the latter and less and less on the former. The whole Primaris lore fiasco is the biggest example of this, but not the only one. Most of the PA books are also examples of it. "Hey guys we have new models for ghaz and ragnar, come up with a story!" "ok, they kill each other and then both get resurrected into new super saiyan versions of themselves!" "that sounds terrible...oh, who am I kidding, let's just go with it."

I didn't hate all of the PA stories. The Sisters being protected by a golden light that shielded tham was decent for example. Bile's machinations that let him scamper off with Custodes and Sisters of Silence to experiment on was also pretty decent.

But some definitely felt more like Saturday morning cartoons.

One thing I have learned is that a lot of their stories are better on full than in summary. Draigo vs Mortarion was better as a short story than the codex summary for example, same for Dante's "alliance" with the Necrons.

Then again I've long accepted that the setting runs of dramatic causality over everything else and that may have softened my feelings about it quite a bit.

GW's rules can be real hit or miss though, and sometimes they really nail how a faction should field to play only.to gut that in the next codex in the name of change instead of working to dial that book in better with the rest of the game as a whole.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm moving to Boston next year, and I'm probably ditching 80% of my BA, mostly oldbois. I don't even know when I'll be able to try 9th outside of TT simulator.

well shoot, I just moved from that area to the other side of the country