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 Arbitrator wrote:
Visually I'm still torn between Marcher Worlds and ISA. I love the MW infantry but hate their Warjacks and vice versa for ISA. The latest Kickstarter MW designs look like GI Joe toys, being so crammed with oversized guns whilst the totally-not-Exemplar-Bastions are calling to me.

I think it is pretty ironic that in Immoren, Protectorate is dying lorewise, while in the galaxy of Cyriss their Iron Star Alliance descendents are rockin' it.

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I think its PP trying to avoid SKU bloat, but it does have the bad effect of creating very expensive boxed sets, esp when they've chunky metal models inside them. On their own the prices don't look too bad, but when they are mashed into a single box and single purchase (both in game and in real life) it can make the game appear more expensive than it is.

That said you've certainly got a lot of model choices you can add without the big sticker item

 Overread wrote:
New games typically need people who have at least two starter armies, terrain and a good understanding of the rules coupled with a big desire to do demo games and such to get people into the game.

You've got to become a GW staffer in style and a salesperson if you want new games to kick off locally

It's so true. Any game beyond 40K here needs advocates and alpha - gamers to push. Then it builds naturally.

My biggest concern with this game is the need to apparently magnetize models to have different weapon options? I dislike assembly and really
suck at it.

Kind of hoping my local privateer press crew will just let any weapon that is legal on a model "count as" in our lists...

Considering getting into this, we all are.

What's odd all of the Marcher Worlds Cadre are uniquely posed, despite there being more of them than what's in the ISA box. I suppose it's possible the ISA might get a few more poses, but it seems a bit of glaring 'the designer had more fun/time with MW'.

i saw that and was wondering if it was just someone only having those images at the time they made the graphs, rather then it being repeat poses in such small units

All the Empyrean stuff has that issue. The 3 existing squads actually only have 2 unique bodies and heads across the 9 total models and only 1 set of arms for each squad type.

It's not as bad as it seems though, because they're a lot more posable than the more human stuff. I got 6 fairly unique sculpts from my 2 squads of Strike Sabers just by adjusting the direction of the heads and arms.

 Mr. Grey wrote:
I see from the Iron Star Alliance that PP is still doing the whole "multiple duplicate poses in a small unit" thing. They really couldn't have sprung for three unique sculpts in a unit of three minis? Looking here at the Regulators Squad and the Witch Hounds specifically.

Scrolling further, I see that the Harbingers of Cyriss have the same issue.

Is it just me, or is $150 for roughly 9 minis quite the expensive buy-in? I don't know much about Warcaster, but that seems pricey and you'd still need additional units to fill out an army, yeah?

No.

Isn't there a game you play or plan on playing that you can comment on? Or do you purposely troll forums for games you don't play or plan on playing?

You can only have a maximum of 15 models in you army.

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There is no traditional "army" as such - your army is your sideboard and vis versa. You can have up to 15 units (keeping in mind that a squad might have more than 1 model - eg most infantry units) and in addition up to 3 heroes.

Units can be summoned to the table and removed by the player or destroyed by your opponent. Any full unit that is removed returns to your sideboard and can be called in again (squads have to lose all members to be removed and then added again).

Each unit has an arc cost and you start the game being able to deploy up to 5 arc in units from your force to the table. Thereafter you have to manage your arc resource that you get per turn (you start with 7); whilst also using void gates to at as summoning points.


Basically there's no fixed army or point system like in a traditional wargame.

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Also note the new KS introduces cadre champions. These are basically a free model you can add outside of the previously mentioned limits; but only if you take the units that comprise their specific cadre in your army. The regular units in the cadre can be used just like regular models otherwise and added to your roster in any number without having to be part of the cadre.


Also note there's a limit like in MTG - so you can't have any 4 of the same unit in your roster. So you can't just spam the same unit over and over.
Of course during the battle you can pull those units out or let them/encourage them to die so that you can summon them again.


Basically it creates a situation were sacrificial units are possible and practical to use; and one where you have to consider if you really want ot kill an enemy unit or pressure your opponent into such a choice. Killing things helps, but do you really want to obliterate your enemies powerful close combat unit when they've got an arc gate very near to your units and could call that unit right in close up etc...


I think it presents a fresh take on the concept of building an army for a wargame. Plus the nature of the sideboard style of army construction means there's more room for variety and more room for adding niche and situation units which, in regular wargames, might never or rarely see table time (esp at competitive events); but which might well see more use in Warcater because if you don't need them you don't call on them.

It also means that the army size - ergo roster - can be adapted very easily as its just 1 value to change. If they find 15 too limiting after a while they can raise the limit; or lower it etc....

I got the last two KS'ers to get a solid Marcher Worlds starter and the Empyrean one.

For this one I am only getting the lore book.

I am kinda of conflicted on the price point. For 200$ I can get to 300 Pt. Infinity armies. Part of the cost is due to the scuplts having alot of chunk. These don't look like small models!

However, I am surprised that the 150 dollar price point level is not the force and soft cover lore book or something akin to that. I think the point is to not have their KS interfere with retailers, and while I can appreciate the effort, KS on any level will interfere with retailers unless you got a group that can gather up funds and give to the retailer ot back the KS..

KS is all about planting a seed and having it grow, so I am interested in seeing of PP approach gives Warcaster a good foothold because it is a lot of fun to play and I appreciate how it doesn't follow the standard force building every single other wargame implements.

As far as purchasing cadres, I think once I start seeing the models in comparison with other lines, I could get into them if they got enough chunk to them.

KS is about planting a seed, with PP's approach the seed is designed to try and not wipe out the local supply. By not steep discounting they likely are having KS that don't fund as high. However it also means they make greater profit per sale and also means that they don't flood the market with cheap product making it very hard to impossible for retail to pick up after because most of the core customers not only have everything they want, but also have a different sense of value.

When you buy a model on a KS for £5 that's its value to you. When the local store then charges £15 it feels a lot lot more expensive even if its still cheap for a model of that size and style.




And yep these are big chunky models in most of these sets; big heavy metal thick armoured guard models and walkers. It's more like getting a force of Tags rather than a force of infantry for Infinity.

marxlives wrote:

 Mr. Grey wrote:
I see from the Iron Star Alliance that PP is still doing the whole "multiple duplicate poses in a small unit" thing. They really couldn't have sprung for three unique sculpts in a unit of three minis? Looking here at the Regulators Squad and the Witch Hounds specifically.

Scrolling further, I see that the Harbingers of Cyriss have the same issue.

Is it just me, or is $150 for roughly 9 minis quite the expensive buy-in? I don't know much about Warcaster, but that seems pricey and you'd still need additional units to fill out an army, yeah?

No.

Isn't there a game you play or plan on playing that you can comment on? Or do you purposely troll forums for games you don't play or plan on playing?

You can only have a maximum of 15 models in you army.

This is not exactly correct, you can have 15 units plus 3 hero solos, not 15 models for a full size game (pg 41), for a skirmish its 8 units and 1 hero solo. (pg 57) still a very small model count, though it could get higher if you prefer units over solos and warjacks. starter sets were half a skirmish, but all things considered, it was relatively affordable and easy to bulk to a minimum 8 for skirmish, the hardest part really was deciding how you wanted to do it. Personally I liked going with the multiple coalition weavers for MW but decided to do 2 marauders for AC.

You're paying MSRP for the Kickstarter. It's serving more as a direct sale distribution model to get around the problems they're having with the existing distribution network crumbling apart over the last 5 years. This isn't a "plant the seed" loss leader system (which, lets be honest, has almost never actually worked) its a full blown business model built around direct orders, both to players whose local stores can't get PP products and to those stores who want to but can't through their distributors.


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My main disappointment with this KS is the lack of the Armory rewards. Those have been JUST enough to sweeten the deal in a lot of cases.

They confirmed on the KS comments the repeated sculpts aren't just a lack of renders, they actually are duplicates. That's a real bummer for things like the NotBastions who're big and only come in 3s.

marxlives wrote:
I am kinda of conflicted on the price point.

Price has pushed me out of all of the KS for Warcaster (and to a lesser extent metal minis). It's a bummer, as the game looks cool and I like supporting PP, but during each KS I get to a point where I'm fine waiting until somebody in my area plays the game and my LGS can get the minis and sell them to me at 15% off (+ 8% tax but without shipping ) From what I've seen there aren't even stretch goals to make me want to jump in a KS, the goals often seem to just unlock minis that I can pay a bunch to add on.

That said, still seems like a neat game. A bit mindboggling they didn't sculpt magnet holes into the jacks and their weapons, but ah well.

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 Boss Salvage wrote:

marxlives wrote:
I am kinda of conflicted on the price point.

Price has pushed me out of all of the KS for Warcaster (and to a lesser extent metal minis). It's a bummer, as the game looks cool and I like supporting PP, but during each KS I get to a point where I'm fine waiting until somebody in my area plays the game and my LGS can get the minis and sell them to me at 15% off (+ 8% tax but without shipping ) From what I've seen there aren't even stretch goals to make me want to jump in a KS, the goals often seem to just unlock minis that I can pay a bunch to add on.

That said, still seems like a neat game. A bit mindboggling they didn't sculpt magnet holes into the jacks and their weapons, but ah well.

The Empyrean stuff does, fwiw, though only on the arms.

 Mr. Grey wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
They confirmed on the KS comments the repeated sculpts aren't just a lack of renders, they actually are duplicates. That's a real bummer for things like the NotBastions who're big and only come in 3s.

Why Privateer Press, whyyyyy?

What are you talking about. You don't even play these games. On every post in the PP section you dog them all, but you don't even play them. Feedback, free speech all that good stuff, however there must be some game on the Dakka Dakka site you can put positive energy into. Critical opinions are good but your comment patterns on this portion of the Dakka site is just a pure black hole negativity.

There is a having an opinion that is critical of a product you play. Then there is just using forum space to attack products you don't like just because, I don't know you just are fixated. Bored. Working for another company. It's therapy. Whatever you are doing it is just not normal behavior. I am not trying to be mean or anything, it is just a noticeable thing.

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 LunarSol wrote:
The Empyrean stuff does, fwiw, though only on the arms.

Hey, that's awesome! Empyrean are the faction I'm most likely to pick up as well.

Ya, I magnetized the weapon load out but it is not new player friendly at all. Having magnet holes sculpted into the pieces, with the guns being resin, and heck I would go as far as saying have magnets packaged with the product would be really get things to do.

The game itself is great mechanically, the aesthetic and story are shaping up. However, the logistics of the models themselves needs to be addressed if the game is to have normie appeal.

All the Star Wars stuff exploded post Co-Vid in our stores and is the same size as 40k in audience. Part of that has alot to do with the hobby side being either non-existent or very light on the normie side of thngs.

So, one thing that makes the magnetizing a lot less of an issue than it first appears is just that Warjacks are both incredibly powerful, but also very resource intensive. You 100% absolutely want/need a Warjack or 2 in your list, but you cannot realistically get much out of more than that. Heavies in particular consume half your ARC pool, so a second is a really tough sell.

One magnetized heavy/light is likely all you will ever need and the only other thing that you'd want to magnetize are the vehicles which have far fewer parts to swap. I bought the Empyreans when they were first released and picked up a second light because the heavy wasn't available for a month; now that I have my heavy, I'm very unlikely to ever use that second light.

I wonder if the arc limits per army and turn might increase as time goes on. The neat hting is that PP can raise and lower those limits pretty easily and its a very fast change. No need to write a whole new book or such to update 2 values.

I could see, over time, them raising the sideboard to 20 and raising the arc amounts up somewhat. It's a very simple system that lets them slide the sliders up and down to change the nature of the game.

The OP packet has basically already one that. They let you take 1 extra of each unit type (Warjack/Squad/Solo/Vehicle) and each card type that you can swap into your deck or model pool between rounds. There's also an "enhanced" version of Skirmish that ups the 8/1 to 11/2 for more roster variety.

Not sure if they'd change ARC though. It's very different from focus. Having more of it wouldn't really enhance the game. It might let you keep more models charged on the table, but one of the joys of the system is how ARC flows during your turn. Summoning more on the table doesn't really benefit the game since you're really limited in activating models so it would mostly just result in stuff for your opponent to kill. It's really more about getting things out and using up the ARC to get it back for further use.

I think War Budgies is getting in on the kickstarter. I want to see how it will affect the narrative in his stories when the cadres come in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf6hVtYN8BQ&list=PLoiwQMLdtchS7GleBD0GuYZvawwHAEAxR


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 LunarSol wrote:
The OP packet has basically already one that. They let you take 1 extra of each unit type (Warjack/Squad/Solo/Vehicle) and each card type that you can swap into your deck or model pool between rounds. There's also an "enhanced" version of Skirmish that ups the 8/1 to 11/2 for more roster variety.

Not sure if they'd change ARC though. It's very different from focus. Having more of it wouldn't really enhance the game. It might let you keep more models charged on the table, but one of the joys of the system is how ARC flows during your turn. Summoning more on the table doesn't really benefit the game since you're really limited in activating models so it would mostly just result in stuff for your opponent to kill. It's really more about getting things out and using up the ARC to get it back for further use.

Arc not being an expansive resource does give the game a momentum feel that is very different than any other game I have played.

Feel like this KS would benefit from providing an entry point for new players, i.e. including pledge levels that net you content from previous releases or add-ons at least for those items.

750ish backers at the time of writing. Considering the last Kickstarter ended at 1100ish they seem to be doing something right by way of retention?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Feel like this KS would benefit from providing an entry point for new players, i.e. including pledge levels that net you content from previous releases or add-ons at least for those items.

The last Kickstarter you could purchase the starter sets as an Add-On I believe. I think they mentioned in the Comments they'd be making some of the previous stuff available, so I assume it includes them.