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Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
LMAO. Entire armies and units were deleted on 9th Edition's release.

Removing rules is not unbelievable at all.

Aye, Renegades and Heretics, Elysium Drop Troops, and the Kharybdis Assault Claw R.I.P..

And the Stormhammer superheavy tank.

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They killed the Stormhammer too? So that's two models that they still sell that have been removed. Anybody have any more?

VladimirHerzog wrote:at this point i'll just start bringing stuff that my night lords SHOULD have access to. Screw GW's rules, i'll bring land speeders to my friendly games even if theyre not in the codex. I'll also start playing my Dreadclaw so that it can arrive turn 1 like the loyalists.

I really hope Dreadclaws get that rule.

I heard that Canoptek Wraith got nerf a lot in repackaged datasheets.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
at this point i'll just start bringing stuff that my night lords SHOULD have access to. Screw GW's rules, i'll bring land speeders to my friendly games even if theyre not in the codex. I'll also start playing my Dreadclaw so that it can arrive turn 1 like the loyalists.

So you are playing narrative. Which is cool and absolutely encouraged by GW.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
at this point i'll just start bringing stuff that my night lords SHOULD have access to. Screw GW's rules, i'll bring land speeders to my friendly games even if theyre not in the codex. I'll also start playing my Dreadclaw so that it can arrive turn 1 like the loyalists.

So you are playing narrative. Which is cool and absolutely encouraged by GW.

not narrative per say, ill still be using the Grand Tournament pack. I just want an army with equal rules to its mirrored version and that fits its fluff. (I'll also play it so that legion traits apply to all my models, not just infantry/biker/chars/helbrutes).

I'm still having fun with my night lords but i hope the rules in PA will stay legal for as long as possible since without them, Night lords don't have much to go on.


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armisael wrote:
I heard that Canoptek Wraith got nerf a lot in repackaged datasheets.

yeah, -1S and WS4 now.

armisael wrote:
I heard that Canoptek Wraith got nerf a lot in repackaged datasheets.

Which was a model which had been treated very very well by point changes.

This gives credit to the theory that the new points are actually meant for the codex versions of the models, as dumb as that sounds.

Don't leave out the +1A that they apparently will get.

Which means that against T4 and below there is no difference to what they do now (assuming all other rules stay the same for their claws).

Against T5 they will do 1,66 wounds instead of 2,22 like before.

Spoletta wrote:

armisael wrote:
I heard that Canoptek Wraith got nerf a lot in repackaged datasheets.

Which was a model which had been treated very very well by point changes.

This gives credit to the theory that the new points are actually meant for the codex versions of the models, as dumb as that sounds.

So when everyone gets their new codex csm will remain tacs -1, Chosen will continue to be equal to tacs, all Contemptors will be equal (which would beg the question: Why do loyalists need three data sheets if they're all the same?), grots will be equal to guardsmen, and gw is somehow going to make Fellblades worth 880 ppm. Nope, sorry, ain't buying it. No way are these ridiculous points an indication of rules most factions will be getting months from now.

Source of our mystery datasheets:

Thankfully, the manuals included in all three Starter Sets feature some suggested additions for the collections in the boxes. Not only that, but as an added bonus, they also include the full datasheets for these new units as well as an extra mission designed with their inclusion in mind! They may not be available just yet, but keep an eye out for the Primaris Invader ATV, the Primaris Firestrike Servo-turret, the Lokhust Heavy Destroyer and Canoptek Doomstalker, as they’re all coming soon!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/07/warhammer-40000-starter-sets-your-next-steps/

Though 'full datasheets' is laughably wrong.

New Terminator instruction-sheet spotted: +1 wound, Chainfists are D3 damage, power fists flat 2 damage, power swords are S+1, heavy flamer is 12" range, Cyclone Launcher Frag Profile changed to 2d6 shots (was 2d3).

That's an interesting typo on the Chainfist AP - it improves the target's save by 4?

 Khorzain wrote:
New Terminator instruction-sheet spotted: +1 wound, Chainfists are D3 damage, power fists flat 2 damage, power swords are S+1, heavy flamer is 12" range.

That...has a great many intriguing implications.

Also its about fething time they fixed the frag profile on the CML.

Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

I wouldn't describe the apparent change to the Chainfist's AP as a buff...

(Yes, I appreciate the lack of a - is probably a typo)

The Cyclone Launcher was always 2d6 in Frag mode, it is and always has been just a twin-linked Missile Launcher.

What interests me is that suddenly the Power Sword, Power Axe, etc all being 5 points makes sense, I'll be very surprised if that S+1, Ap 3, D1 profile isn't standard over all the power weapons now. (They did the same thing going from 2nd to 3rd if I recall, there were a half dozen different profiles in 2nd but they were all lumped under "Power Weapon" in 3rd.)

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

You're assuming all other terminators won't go to 3 wounds as well? Because I see plenty of buffs for chaos marines on there that they will simply have to faq in.

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

You're assuming all other terminators won't go to 3 wounds as well? Because I see plenty of buffs for chaos marines on there that they will simply have to faq in.

you mean like they did when the loyalist chapter tactics started applying to all their units?

The Newman wrote:
The Cyclone Launcher was always 2d6 in Frag mode, it is and always has been just a twin-linked Missile Launcher.

What interests me is that suddenly the Power Sword, Power Axe, etc all being 5 points makes sense, I'll be very surprised if that S+1, Ap 3, D1 profile isn't standard over all the power weapons now. (They did the same thing going from 2nd to 3rd if I recall, there were a half dozen different profiles in 2nd but they were all lumped under "Power Weapon" in 3rd.)

Well even if it is codex changes won't be all that quick so many will be old stats for long while


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Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

You're assuming all other terminators won't go to 3 wounds as well? Because I see plenty of buffs for chaos marines on there that they will simply have to faq in.

Like multi melta change last year was errataed? Oh sorry they didn't.

And all armies obviously have terminators. Oh yes...oh sorry where's dark eldar terminators? Tau? Sob? Necron?

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

You're assuming all other terminators won't go to 3 wounds as well? Because I see plenty of buffs for chaos marines on there that they will simply have to faq in.

They might, but it'll take time for those Codexes to get out. They didn't "FAQ" the Stormshields and explicitly said they'll wait for the Codex to update those. I assume that'd be the philosophy going forward.

If you happen to be the 8th-Ed. "Space Wolves" or "Genestealer Cult"-Equivalent of 9th Edition, you might not get a Codex "bringing you up to 9th Edition standards" for a year or two (especially how slowly GW seems to be rolling out the Marine / Necron book to kick things off).

Combined with Codex-specific Secondaries making it easier to play the missions for books that have a 9th Ed. Codex, it might be a tough year or two for the "late Codex armies" of 9th.

True, but we also all know what GW's track record on it's first 2-3 codexes of a new edition looks like. Nice to be first, until the 5th or 6th comes out and roflstomps you all the time.

I could actually see Swords & Axes being the same +1S AP-3 profile. But Power staves don't make sense with that.

I'm glad to see 3W Terminators though.

I really hope all these Marine changes get incorporated into the Chaos Marines via FAQ and not whenever their codices drop.

-

The point values for terminators make little sense if they give them a 3rd wound. So I don't think you can assume that the points costs we have now incorporate changes that haven't yet been released (which would be an incredibly stupid thing to do anyway).

Dudeface wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

You're assuming all other terminators won't go to 3 wounds as well? Because I see plenty of buffs for chaos marines on there that they will simply have to faq in.

Tell me again how that helps Necrons or Eldar or Sisters, or Orkz?

So chaos gets buffed to be just as bad relative to marines, while every other factions eat a big fat one.

Neat.

The Newman wrote:
The Cyclone Launcher was always 2d6 in Frag mode, it is and always has been just a twin-linked Missile Launcher.

Did I miss an update to it? The datasheets I'm looking at all say the Cyclone Launcher is 2d3 for Space Marine units. The Typhoon Launcher is the one with a d6 frag profile like a missile launcher.

 Khorzain wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The Cyclone Launcher was always 2d6 in Frag mode, it is and always has been just a twin-linked Missile Launcher.

Did I miss an update to it? The datasheets I'm looking at all say the Cyclone Launcher is 2d3 for Space Marine units. The Typhoon Launcher is the one with a d6 frag profile like a missile launcher.

Indeed. CML in frag has been gak all of 8th.

Galef wrote:I could actually see Swords & Axes being the same +1S AP-3 profile. But Power staves don't make sense with that.

I'm glad to see 3W Terminators though.

I really hope all these Marine changes get incorporated into the Chaos Marines via FAQ and not whenever their codices drop.

-

That makes two of us. Though knowing gw they'll drag they're feet. Or we'll find out all these terminators have primaris in them.

yukishiro1 wrote:The point values for terminators make little sense if they give them a 3rd wound. So I don't think you can assume that the points costs we have now incorporate changes that haven't yet been released (which would be an incredibly stupid thing to do anyway).

What? You mean all those insane points changes weren't actually just gw preplanning for all the new codexes? They're just an enormous hack job that does absolutely nothing for actual balance?

Shocking.

 Khorzain wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The Cyclone Launcher was always 2d6 in Frag mode, it is and always has been just a twin-linked Missile Launcher.

Did I miss an update to it? The datasheets I'm looking at all say the Cyclone Launcher is 2d3 for Space Marine units. The Typhoon Launcher is the one with a d6 frag profile like a missile launcher.

Well shut my mouth. I suppose it's a good thing I never ever fired it in Frag mode despite how often I take the ruddy thing.

 Khorzain wrote:

The Newman wrote:
The Cyclone Launcher was always 2d6 in Frag mode, it is and always has been just a twin-linked Missile Launcher.

Did I miss an update to it? The datasheets I'm looking at all say the Cyclone Launcher is 2d3 for Space Marine units. The Typhoon Launcher is the one with a d6 frag profile like a missile launcher.

Yup, just 2D3 in the Space Marine book.

Also not merely a twin linked ML since it's range is only 36" :(

The Powerfist/Chainfist damage swap is weird. I wish Chainfists were so much better than they are. S10 or D6 damage or something. It's annoying that the Thunder Hammer is both now available to non-Terminators and Terminators don't have an exclusively nasty CC option.

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

Yes, buffs to weak and underused units. Terminators weren't the thing breaking the game.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are　hoping new marine codex to balance things yet　all we see so far is buffs

Yes, buffs to weak and underused units. Terminators weren't the thing breaking the game.

This right here. Now we might at least see a few Termies on the table instead of them being the "lol that's cute" option. About time they were good for a change!

The Powerfist / Chainfist swap makes sense since they're the same points now, one has the consistent damage that everyone thinks is more valuable and the other has the better Ap. I'm ok with this change.