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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 14:02:25
Subject: Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Been Around the Block
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When the Necron FAQ dropped GW changed the wording of Emergency Invasions beams to the following to allow for deployment on Turn 1 regardless of matched play rules.
*Page 110 – Stratagems, Emergency Invasion Beam, rules text
Add the following:
‘Units set up with this Stratagem can be set up during the first
battle round, regardless of any mission rules.’
What many people probably don't realise is they also changed the wording of the digital Codex of the Enhanced Invasion Beam Stratagem to the following:
"Use this stratagem before you set up a unit of from a tomb world using the Invasion Beam Ability of a Night Scythe from your army, or the Eternity Gate ability of a monolith from your army. You can set up two units from a tomb world instead of one. Units set up with this Stratagem can be set up during the first battle round even if you are using the tactical reserves rules"
Note: bolded above.
The combo
> The Deceiver grand illusions ability allows reployment of 1D3 units plus itself up to 9" from an enemy prior to battle start. Units cannot charge turn 1 that have been redeployed.
> A Melee infantry unit (Skopehk/Lychguard/etc) is held back in deployment using the Enhanced Invasion Beam strategem. the Melee infantry unit is not being redeployed, it is not on the board
> The Deceiver redeploys a Night Scythe or Monolith prior to battle start to 9" from Enemy unit.
> Using the Enhanced Invasion Beam Stratagem the melee unit is brought in 3" from Night Scythe. This is now explicitly allowed under the wording of the stratagem on turn 1.
> Melee infantry is now 6" from Enemy. Unit proceeds to make a charge roll (re-rolling with CP if required).
> If successful, you have now made a T1 charge.
All of the above relies on the assumption the Digital Codex is the definitive edition.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/06 14:30:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 14:46:44
Subject: Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Been Around the Block
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It certainly would be strange if the most recently updated rules source was superseded by its un-updated predecessor, but we are talking about GW, so who knows?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 16:57:05
Subject: Re:Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Current RAW in eternal war missions is reinforcements cannot arrive T1. Any unit that isnt set up on the battlefield during deployment is reinforcements. When you have a night scythe/monolith you set up infantry on the tomb world, rather than setting them up on the battlefield. Therefore, a unit set up on the tomb world is reinforcements, and cannot arrive T1.
There is no tactical reserves rule in 9th. There are no changes to enhanced invasion beams in the current indomitus 1.0 necron FAQ.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/08/06 17:01:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 17:05:22
Subject: Re:Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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p5freak wrote:Current RAW in eternal war missions is reinforcements cannot arrive T1. Any unit that isnt set up on the battlefield during deployment is reinforcements. When you have a night scythe/monolith you set up infantry on the tomb world, rather than setting them up on the battlefield. Therefore, a unit set up on the tomb world is reinforcements, and cannot arrive T1.
There is no tactical reserves rule in 9th. There are no changes to enhanced invasion beams in the current indomitus 1.0 necron FAQ.
Actually, any unit that isn't set up that doesn't have a special rule stating they can do so cannot arrive T1. There are some special rules that allow for the unit itself to not be set up but have a marker on the board (Cult Ambush having a FAQ that states they're not in Strategic Reserves and aren't reinforcements). These would be clearly noted exceptions to the rule, however.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 17:15:33
Subject: Re:Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Been Around the Block
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p5freak wrote:Current RAW in eternal war missions is reinforcements cannot arrive T1. Any unit that isnt set up on the battlefield during deployment is reinforcements. When you have a night scythe/monolith you set up infantry on the tomb world, rather than setting them up on the battlefield. Therefore, a unit set up on the tomb world is reinforcements, and cannot arrive T1.
There is no tactical reserves rule in 9th. There are no changes to enhanced invasion beams in the current indomitus 1.0 necron FAQ.
The FAQ unequivocally overrides the reinforcement rule from the eternal war missions for the emergency invasion beam.
*Page 110 – Stratagems, Emergency Invasion Beam, rules text
Add the following:
‘ Units set up with this Stratagem can be set up during the first
battle round, regardless of any mission rules .’
The enchanced invasion states you can setup in the first turn, regardless of rules for reserves. It's written in the codex.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/08/06 17:21:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 20:20:44
Subject: Re:Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Ok, when you use the stratagem you can set up two units in T1 in eternal war missions. But you cant set up one unit without the stratagem, because units set up on a tomb world are reinforcements.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/06 20:21:04
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 20:25:43
Subject: Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Implacable Skitarii
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Enhanced invasion beam is not in the physical codex, FAQ, or App as including the line "Units set up with this stratagem can be set up in the first battle round, regardless of mission rules."
I have no idea what the protocol is if the digital codex uses different wording than the printed codex, but has not been changed via FAQ.
I will point out that the app agrees with the printed codex wording, so absent an FAQ I'd assume that's the correct wording (not that I'd generally rely on the app over a codex, but id use it when there's some variance between the printed codex and the electronic one as a tie-breaker of sorts)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/06 20:26:39
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 21:33:02
Subject: Re:Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
Texas
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Link to relevant FAQ dated July 13
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/sO6Jx19rP2aU6YnD.pdf
Copy of relevant text from FAQ section
Q: Are units that are set up on their tomb world using the
Invasion Beams and Eternity Gate abilities counted as
Reinforcement units for the purpose of any mission rules?
A: Yes.
So the units count as reinforcements and subject to those rules. Seems pretty clear so far...
Copy of relevant errata
*Page 102 – Night Scythe, Abilities, Invasion Beams
Change the penultimate sentence of this ability to read:
‘Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and not within Engagement Range of any enemy units; the unit that has just been set up counts as having disembarked from a Transport for all rules purposes.’ (This matches text in 40K app).
So no change to units being counted as reinforcements nor any exceptions to the reinforcement rules so by RAW no turn 1 charge is possible it seems, except.....
*Page 110 – Stratagems, Emergency Invasion Beam, rules text
Add the following:
‘Units set up with this Stratagem can be set up during the first battle round, regardless of any mission rules.’ (This matches text in 40K app)
Note that context is important as the text before this that part of the rule states, "Use this Stratagem when the last <Dynasty> Night Scythe and/or Monolith from your army is destroyed. Before removing the model from the battlefield, you can immediately set up a friendly <Dynasty> unit still on their tomb world wholly within 3" of the Night Scythe / Monolith and more than 1" from any enemy models."
*Emphasis mine
So is a turn 1 charge possible? by RAW the answer seems yes if you are able to use the stratagem above that has two very specific prerequisites. Is it practical or a reliable strategy? I would say definitely not given that it has to be your last Night Scythe and has been destroyed turn 1. A very expensive and iffy proposition to say the least.
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"Preach the gospel always, If necessary use words." ~ St. Francis of Assisi |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 21:40:14
Subject: Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I think this is GW getting confused by the "Emergency Invasion Beam" and the "Enhanced Invasion Beam" and changing the wrong one (or both) in the digital edition. A new type of problem to be sure, and a hilarious one. That said, Enhanced Invasion Beam from the digital codex is the latest publication....
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/06 21:41:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/06 23:00:36
Subject: Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Implacable Skitarii
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Unit1126PLL wrote:I think this is GW getting confused by the "Emergency Invasion Beam" and the "Enhanced Invasion Beam" and changing the wrong one (or both) in the digital edition.
A new type of problem to be sure, and a hilarious one.
That said, Enhanced Invasion Beam from the digital codex is the latest publication....
That’s does seem like a reasonable guess as to what happened.
Is the digital codex the latest publication though? The app doesn’t have the wording, and it’s at least as recent as the updated digital codex.
Leave it to GW to create a situation where their rules are different based on what format you paid to access them....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/07 06:03:20
Subject: Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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TBH I'm more concerned with getting a blob of 20 reaper armed warriors into 7" of an enemy infantry unit than I al with charging into CC, any ideas on that?
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"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/07 06:08:33
Subject: Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Matt Swain wrote:TBH I'm more concerned with getting a blob of 20 reaper armed warriors into 7" of an enemy infantry unit than I al with charging into CC, any ideas on that?
This isnt the necron tactics thread.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/08/07 17:18:42
Subject: Can Necron's now reliably perform a Turn 1 Charge with any Infantry Unit?
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Power-Hungry Cultist of Tzeentch
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Matt Swain wrote:TBH I'm more concerned with getting a blob of 20 reaper armed warriors into 7" of an enemy infantry unit than I al with charging into CC, any ideas on that?
If we're lucky Sautehk will have the rapid fire at 18" like the leak suggests. so you'll have rapid fire reapers at 14".
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