New PL's and FAQs (2020-08-10)

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**Asmodai**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/#warhammer-40000

Highlights:

- Space Wolves keep ObSec on everything.

- Page 67 – Manifesting Psychic powers, first paragraphAdd the following sentence:‘The same Psyker unit cannot attempt to manifest Smite more than once during the same battle round.’

- Tweaks to Look Out Sir

- Page 85 – Obscuring, second paragraph, first sentence Change this sentence to read:‘Models that are on or within terrain feature can see, and can be seen and targeted normally.’

- Page 85 – Heavy Cover Change this paragraph to read:‘When an attack made with a melee weapon wounds a model that is receiving the benefits of cover from this terrain feature, add 1 to the saving throw made against that attack unless the model that the attack is allocated to made a charge move this turn (invulnerable saving throws are not affected).

- A rule that prevents Falling Back takes precedence over Desperate Breakout Stratagem (pg 79)

- Ta’unar Supremacy Armour up to 1040 base

- Fortifications cannot be placed into Strategic Reserves.

**Chenko_chenko**

Asmodai wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/#warhammer-40000

Highlights:

- Space Wolves keep ObSec on everything.

- Page 67 – Manifesting Psychic powers, first paragraphAdd the following sentence:‘The same Psyker unit cannot attempt to manifest Smite more than once during the same battle round.’

- Tweaks to Look Out Sir

- Page 85 – Obscuring, second paragraph, first sentence Change this sentence to read:‘Models that are on or within terrain feature can see, and can be seen and targeted normally.’

- Page 85 – Heavy Cover Change this paragraph to read:‘When an attack made with a melee weapon wounds a model that is receiving the benefits of cover from this terrain feature, add 1 to the saving throw made against that attack unless the model that the attack is allocated to made a charge move this turn (invulnerable saving throws are not affected).

- A rule that prevents Falling Back takes precedence over Desperate Breakout Stratagem (pg 79)

- Ta’unar Supremacy Armour up to 1040 base

- Fortifications cannot be placed into Strategic Reserves.

RIP - Ta’unar Tau meta - July 2020 - August 2020. Can I get an F in the chat?

**SamusDrake**

Power levels for Harlequins seem decent. Voidweavers should be a better option now.

**Niiru**

SamusDrake wrote:
Power levels for Harlequins seem decent. Voidweavers should be a better option now.

Death jesters got nerfed though, especially dreaming shadow ones. Not much point in jest inescapable any more either. No more chance of stacking mortal wounds.

**Mozzamanx**

Goodbye Warboss on Bike

**The Newman**

"Tweaks to Look Out Sir" he says.

For a Vehicle or Monster to protect a character jt has to be ten or more wounds now. No more Daemon Princes or Character Dreadnoughts guarding each other.

Also, strats that refund CP are no longer subject to the one-per-round restriction, although I suspect they'll have to FAQ the FAQ because now as written if you have a unit ability/relic/whatever that refunds CP you can get your 1 from that and then use your CP regen strat on top of it.

**Sterling191**

The Newman wrote:

Also, strats that refund CP are no longer subject to the one-per-round restriction, although I suspect they'll have to FAQ the FAQ because now as written if you have a unit ability/relic/whatever that refunds CP you can get your 1 from that and then use your CP regen strat on top of it.

Why exactly do you expect an FAQ to revert a change that explicitly allows that scenario? The intent here appears pretty clearly to want that occurrence to be a possibility.

**tulun**

Mozzamanx wrote:
Goodbye Warboss on Bike

Yeah, this is massive. Warboss on Bike might be our best HQ in 9th, and it's no longer legal.

**Gregor Samsa**

What a waste of resources to spend on fiddling with power level rather than repointing. Whoever's power point slide idea PL was sure has gone to war in ramming an odd system into the game regardless of unpopular and or poorly it functions.

**Tycho**

- Page 67 – Manifesting Psychic powers, first paragraphAdd the following sentence:‘The same Psyker unit cannot attempt to manifest Smite more than once during the same battle round.’

Ouch. That is a GOOD edit of course, but I was really hoping they would return Psychic Focus. I'm guessing this probably means that wasn't an accidental omission and we really aren't getting that back. Probably the final nail in the coffin for my poor Tsons. They faired well in the points debacle, but so much about 9th has pretty much been a swift kick in the nethers for them. Hopefully they get psychic focus back in their codex. Smite was the only reliable anti-armor we really had ...

**The Newman**

Sterling191 wrote:
The Newman wrote:

Also, strats that refund CP are no longer subject to the one-per-round restriction, although I suspect they'll have to FAQ the FAQ because now as written if you have a unit ability/relic/whatever that refunds CP you can get your 1 from that and then use your CP regen strat on top of it.

Why exactly do you expect an FAQ to revert a change that explicitly allows that scenario? The intent here appears pretty clearly to want that occurrence to be a possibility.

Unless I'm remembering incorrectly (a strong possibility) it used to be "you can only get a single CP refunded unless it's coming from one of these specific sources that can refund several, and in those cases you can still only refund CP from a single source", in which case a lot of people are going to wonder if GW intended the original meaning and wrote it incorrectly again.

**Sterling191**

Gregor Samsa wrote:What a waste of resources to spend on fiddling with power level rather than repointing. Whoever's power point slide idea PL was sure has gone to war in ramming an odd system into the game regardless of unpopular and or poorly it functions.

PL interacts with multiple systems in 9th, and the values havent been adjusted (with a tiny handful of specific exceptions) since the Index days of 8th. It was a critical update, whether you like it or not.

The Newman wrote:
Unless I'm remembering incorrectly (a strong possibility) it used to be "you can only get a single CP refunded unless it's coming from one of these specific sources that can refund several, and in those cases you can still only refund CP from a single source", in which case a lot of people are going to wonder if GW intended the original meaning and wrote it incorrectly again.

That is indeed what it used to be, and it mooted multiple options for multiple armies because they couldnt overlap anymore. There's a middle ground for CP gain between the old Aquila + Grand Strategist days, and the hard cap of only ever getting one per battle round. We've been seeing them creep back into codices and supplements, and this change allows those additions to do more than collect dust.

**Gregor Samsa**

i mean i guess....it seems as though it would have been better for players to simply spend the time repointing units for the release of 9th rather than poorly develop two parallel systems at the same time.

**yukishiro1**

tulun wrote:
Mozzamanx wrote:
Goodbye Warboss on Bike

Yeah, this is massive. Warboss on Bike might be our best HQ in 9th, and it's no longer legal.

Did you miss the memo? Only Space Marines get bike characters these days.

**Togusa**

tulun wrote:
Mozzamanx wrote:
Goodbye Warboss on Bike

Yeah, this is massive. Warboss on Bike might be our best HQ in 9th, and it's no longer legal.

Use the war trike?

**Sim-Life**

Gregor Samsa wrote:
What a waste of resources to spend on fiddling with power level rather than repointing. Whoever's power point slide idea PL was sure has gone to war in ramming an odd system into the game regardless of unpopular and or poorly it functions.

Considering a LOT of people are showing an interest in Crusade which uses PL I don't think its a waste. I would prefer points myself but I like the idea of an army with narrative growth of more than granularity min/maxing.

**Sterling191**

Gregor Samsa wrote:
i mean i guess....it seems as though it would have been better for players to simply spend the time repointing units for the release of 9th rather than poorly develop two parallel systems at the same time.

You do understand that the new PL are a derived value from the new points costs for 9th edition right?

**tulun**

Togusa wrote:
tulun wrote:
Mozzamanx wrote:
Goodbye Warboss on Bike

Yeah, this is massive. Warboss on Bike might be our best HQ in 9th, and it's no longer legal.

Use the war trike?

You're joking right?

They are not substitutes.

1) Wartrike is a gunboat. It's best used with the Gork's Roar and trying to flame / melta stuff.

2) It cannot take our Relic Klaw, so is stuck on Dd3 Damage and str 7. It cannot take any useful relics anymore (the only good one for it was in a specialist detachment)

3) It has a massive base. It's hard to hide it and use it aggressively.

4) It cannot take Da Biggest Boss strat and gain a 4+ invul.

Wartrike is fine in its own right, but it cannot compare to the Biker Boss in damage consistency and melee threat.

**Gregor Samsa**

the problem is that right now building lists with either provided points or using power level produces skewed or broken lists because they're not in good shape. This just seems like an odd hill to die on....I am principally a crusade player and would love to use PL. but I would even more like to have one system that works rather than two that sort of do not.

**Dysartes**

Interesting to see the Brotherhood Champion option removed from Grey Knights.

**SamusDrake**

Niiru wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Power levels for Harlequins seem decent. Voidweavers should be a better option now.

Death jesters got nerfed though, especially dreaming shadow ones. Not much point in jest inescapable any more either. No more chance of stacking mortal wounds.

Not even for the extra 12" range?

But seriously, I got a feeling Harlequins and Deathwatch could be among the first codices for 9th edition as they went straight to WD for their PA updates. Somewhere in the next 12 months, I reckon...

**Wakshaani**

Huh. Interesting.

Attacks that have a special thing that triggers on a 6, like additional attacks, do not then trigger additional effects.

So, for example, the Chaos rule where you generate more attacks on a 6 to-hit against Imperium forces. If you were using the Death Guard flails which blow up into several hits, attacks generated by the Death to the False Emperor do *not* flail explode.

Huh.

Not sure where all this comes up off the top of my head, but, interesting.

(Same applies to Mortal Wounds, Shurkien/Rending claws effects, and so on. Extra attacks never get additional rules, just "hit or miss" and that's it. Huh.)

**Gadzilla666**

So We Have Come For You takes precedent over Desperate Breakout and the Kharybdis is back. Good.

Why has stuff that went up in points gone down in pl? Chosen, warp talons, and land raiders all down.

Everything didn't go down though. Fellblades up to 44pl. So 14 more than a baneblade, 9 more than an astreus, and 12 more than a

Castellan. Why does gw hate this model?

**Not Online!!!**

Well, r&h does not exist anymore as so elysians.
As allready known but now Black in white.
Well was a nice ride.

**Sterling191**

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Why has stuff that went up in points gone down in pl? Chosen, warp talons, and land raiders all down.

Because the PL values that are being adjusted were from the Index days of 8th. In many cases there have been *years* of points decreases unaccounted for. Some units may have gone up in points from CA2018 -> CA2019, but compared to their original Index values are still changed enough to fit into decreased PL value results.

**tneva82**

Gregor Samsa wrote:
What a waste of resources to spend on fiddling with power level rather than repointing. Whoever's power point slide idea PL was sure has gone to war in ramming an odd system into the game regardless of unpopular and or poorly it functions.

Seeing points are　also junk　for balance if you want balance you　use neitker.

And as hard as it might be for you to imagine there are fans for pl. Not everybody takes 40k as some competive game of skill it isnt. Trying to play it as such just shows you don't understand how 40k works

**Dysartes**

Good to see the Corsairs still exist under FW Eldar.

I might be missing something here - what's the title on the datasheet for Mephiston's Primaris version? I only see Chief Librarian Mephiston in the table, while the model shows as "Mephiston, Lord of Blood" on the webstore. See also Tigurius, Ragnar Blackmane, and assorted versions of Marneus Calgar. I wasn't aware of the proper versions of these characters making it to Legends, but I may have missed something.

Frankly, that update PDF really needed a ToC - Forge World appearing in the middle threw me.

**vict0988**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
So We Have Come For You takes precedent over Desperate Breakout and the Kharybdis is back. Good.

Why has stuff that went up in points gone down in pl? Chosen, warp talons, and land raiders all down.

Everything didn't go down though. Fellblades up to 44pl. So 14 more than a baneblade, 9 more than an astreus, and 12 more than a Castellan. Why does gw hate this model?

Isn't it because of weapon options going down in pts? They average out the most expensive and least expensive loadout for a unit so that might have led to it. Better nerf Fellblade might have to become a meme, it's funny because Castellan went down in pts.

Gregor Samsa wrote:
What a waste of resources to spend on fiddling with power level rather than repointing. Whoever's power point slide idea PL was sure has gone to war in ramming an odd system into the game regardless of unpopular and or poorly it functions.

I'll have to second that adjusting PL is real easy, this can't have taken more than a week for an intern to do. If you had a list building application then it would be even easier since you wouldn't have to calculate the max and min costs in excel.

Gregor Samsa wrote:
i mean i guess....it seems as though it would have been better for players to simply spend the time repointing units for the release of 9th rather than poorly develop two parallel systems at the same time.

Repointing the game ought to be a vastly larger effort than calculating PL, several people would have to work on pts for a couple of weeks and 100+ playtests would need to be organized in such a manner that every unit is tested a couple of time. As it is CA20 Munitorum Field Manual isn't worth the paper it's been printed on and I doubt what little effort went into this system could have saved the flustercluck that is 9th pts.

**Pyroalchi**

a bit weird that Astra Militarum can still take Crusaders in packs of ten. So should we use the new Sisters of Battle datasheet for the rest of the rules but our own old for the number of models?

**Tristanleo**

Everyone else is getting into the minute details, I'm just sat here wondering how, despite having the exact same stats, a chaos lord is worth 6 power level when a captain is worth 5...