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 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, starcannons are good vs. 2W Marines.
But as you said, if you face a horde, then shuriken weapons are better.
In view of tournament play, you need to find a balance between anti-Marine and anti-horde weapons.

Yeah, exactly this, but with the points increase, it's not that easy now, but i tried :

DETACHMENT : Spearhead Expert crafters + Masterful shots

HQ 1 : [Warlord] Farseer skyrunner, Singing spear [140]
Trait : Seer of the shifting vector
Relic : Phoenix gem
Psy : Smite, Doom, Executioner

Troup 1 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Bladestorm [70]
Troup 2 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Bladestorm [70]
Troup 3 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Bladestorm [70]

Elite 1 : 5 Wraithblades, Ghostaxes, Forceshields [200]
Elite 2 : 5 Wraithblades, Ghostaxes, Forceshields [200]

FA1 : 6 Shining Spears, Exarch : Star lance [215]

HS 1 : Falcon, Starcannon [130]
HS 2 : Falcon, Starcannon [130]

Transport 1 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Spirit stones [170]
Transport 2 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Spirit stones [170]

DETACHMENT : Patrol Expert crafters + Masterful shots

HQ 1 : Warlock skyrunner [65]
Psy : Ghostwalk, Protect/Jinx

Troup 1 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Bladestorm [70]

HS1 : War Walker, 2 Starcannon [70]
HS2 : War Walker, 2 Starcannon [70]

Transport 1 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon [160]

ARMY TOTAL [2000]

The Shining Spears are good against GeQ AND MeQ so I think they may be the best choice here.

Well, Serpents can take underslung shuricannons.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Serpents can take underslung shuricannons.

For what purpose? ^^

4 shots S6 PA-3 Dd3
or
6 shots S6 PA0 D1

The choice is made for me ^^

 -Ekko- wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Serpents can take underslung shuricannons.

For what purpose? ^^

4 shots S6 PA-3 Dd3
or
6 shots S6 PA0 D1

The choice is made for me ^^

Its the underslung shuricannon which is 24'', 3 shots, S6, PA0, D1.
It has longer range than the shurikats (12'').

 wuestenfux wrote:

 -Ekko- wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, Serpents can take underslung shuricannons.

For what purpose? ^^

4 shots S6 PA-3 Dd3
or
6 shots S6 PA0 D1

The choice is made for me ^^

Its the underslung shuricannon which is 24'', 3 shots, S6, PA0, D1.
It has longer range than the shurikats (12'').

Ow my bad i didn't get it !
But do you mean I should put underslung Shuricannon instead of the Shining spears? And add a falcon with the remaining points maybe?

Ok guys I've played more games, and the shining spears are really good to clean units on side objectives, who are less defended than the one in the middle. You can hide behind terrain then charge from very far away with them, it's priceless. Also, I think "Shredding fire" on Avengers is better with that marine meta, the AP-3 on all shots are really good to clean MeQ on objectives.

So I think I have my final list :

DETACHMENT : Spearhead Expert crafters + Masterful shots

HQ 1 : [Warlord] Farseer skyrunner [135]
Trait : Seer of the shifting vector
Relic : Phoenix gem
Psy : Smite, Doom, Executioner

Troup 1 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Shredding fire [70]

HS1 : War Walker, 2 Starcannon [70]
HS2 : War Walker, 2 Starcannon [70]
HS3 : War Walker, 2 Starcannon [70]

DETACHMENT : Patrol Expert crafters + Masterful shots

HQ 1 : Warlock skyrunner [65]
Psy : Ghostwalk, Protect/Jinx

Troup 1 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Shredding fire [70]
Troup 2 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Shredding fire [70]
Troup 3 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Shredding fire [70]

Elite 1 : 5 Wraithblades, Ghostaxes, Forceshields [200]

FA1 : 5 Shining Spears, Exarch : Skilled rider [175]
FA2 : 5 Shining Spears, Exarch : Skilled rider [175]

HS 1 : Falcon, Starcannon [130]
HS 2 : Falcon, Starcannon [130]

Transport 1 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Spirit stones [170]
Transport 2 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Spirit stones [170]
Transport 3 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon [160]

ARMY TOTAL [2000]

 -Ekko- wrote:
Ok guys I've played more games, and the shining spears are really good to clean units on side objectives, who are less defended than the one in the middle. You can hide behind terrain then charge from very far away with them, it's priceless. Also, I think "Shredding fire" on Avengers is better with that marine meta, the AP-3 on all shots are really good to clean MeQ on objectives.

So I think I have my final list :

DETACHMENT : Spearhead Expert crafters + Masterful shots

HQ 1 : [Warlord] Farseer skyrunner [135]
Trait : Seer of the shifting vector
Relic : Phoenix gem
Psy : Smite, Doom, Executioner

Troup 1 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Shredding fire [70]

HS1 : War Walker, 2 Starcannon [70]
HS2 : War Walker, 2 Starcannon [70]
HS3 : War Walker, 2 Starcannon [70]

DETACHMENT : Patrol Expert crafters + Masterful shots

HQ 1 : Warlock skyrunner [65]
Psy : Ghostwalk, Protect/Jinx

Troup 1 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Shredding fire [70]
Troup 2 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Shredding fire [70]
Troup 3 : 5 Dire Avengers. Exarch : 2 Avenger shuriken catapults, Shredding fire [70]

Elite 1 : 5 Wraithblades, Ghostaxes, Forceshields [200]

FA1 : 5 Shining Spears, Exarch : Skilled rider [175]
FA2 : 5 Shining Spears, Exarch : Skilled rider [175]

HS 1 : Falcon, Starcannon [130]
HS 2 : Falcon, Starcannon [130]

Transport 1 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Spirit stones [170]
Transport 2 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon, Spirit stones [170]
Transport 3 : Wave Serpent, Twin Starcannon [160]

ARMY TOTAL [2000]

Excellent! Now we are just refining.

Why not do 1 Battalion? As far as I can tell, the Craftworld traits are identical so you're only saving 2CP by doing this.

You'd have to combine all of the war walkers into 1 unit but I think this is better anyway (less efficient crafters, more efficient guide and doom is the same anyway).

Cut out 5x dire avengers. I like Avenging strikes myself as even 2 or 3 DAs do wonders with +1 to hit and wound. Remember, shredding fire is only for the Exarch.

I would do 3x3 shining spears. You save on points by dropping a guy and you can be in 3 places at once. The Exarch has more, better attacks with the star lance too.

You have roughly 100 points now to do whatever you like with. The only thing you lost was 5 DA and 1 shining spear. But, you gained an exarch with a star lance and +2CP.

Mistake, sorry

Excellent! Now we are just refining.

Why not do 1 Battalion? As far as I can tell, the Craftworld traits are identical so you're only saving 2CP by doing this.

You'd have to combine all of the war walkers into 1 unit but I think this is better anyway (less efficient crafters, more efficient guide and doom is the same anyway).

Cut out 5x dire avengers. I like Avenging strikes myself as even 2 or 3 DAs do wonders with +1 to hit and wound. Remember, shredding fire is only for the Exarch.

I would do 3x3 shining spears. You save on points by dropping a guy and you can be in 3 places at once. The Exarch has more, better attacks with the star lance too.

You have roughly 100 points now to do whatever you like with. The only thing you lost was 5 DA and 1 shining spear. But, you gained an exarch with a star lance and +2CP.

2x4 Spears to fit in the 2 Vypers. Take Star Cannons if you face a lot of Marine armies. I like the list as a solid take all comers.

How about this, if you like the list as is just put upgrades on the vehicles for now.

$$$ wise, this is the safest option. When you play a few games, you can drop them again if you feel like you need to for another option.

Plus, spirit stones are amazing lol. Ruin your opponent's day