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Hey Everyone,

Question here regarding a small DW rule regarding SIA if you are in devastator doc can you get Stalker Boltguns and rifles to AP-4. Looking at it from the perspective of having the SIA take you to AP-3 as it is capped at that, then added the extra AP+1 for heavy weapons does it work that way or Devastator Doc first then weapon mods?

Would love some clarification

Cheers

Doctrines dont stack with anything, unless a rule says otherwise. From the SM FAQ :

Page 109 – Combat Doctrines
.
.
.
Unless specified otherwise, this bonus is not cumulative
with any other rules that improve the Armour Penetration
characteristic of a weapon (e.g. the Storm of Fire Warlord Trait).’

As p5freak says, Doctrines do not stack unless it says otherwise. SIA does not say otherwise.

Actually you're both wrong Special Ammunition is cumulative with Doctrines. You should check the FAQ for the Deathwatch codex rather than the Space Marine FAQ...

"With the exception of Special Issue Ammunition (see Codex: Deathwatch), and unless specified otherwise, this bonus is not cumulative with any other rules that improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of a weapon."

However, even the doctrine bonus cannot take a AP characteristic below the maximum allowed for the ammo type as per the codex.

ItsPug wrote:
Actually you're both wrong Special Ammunition is cumulative with Doctrines. You should check the FAQ for the Deathwatch codex rather than the Space Marine FAQ...

"With the exception of Special Issue Ammunition (see Codex: Deathwatch), and unless specified otherwise, this bonus is not cumulative with any other rules that improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of a weapon."

However, even the doctrine bonus cannot take a AP characteristic below the maximum allowed for the ammo type as per the codex.

Huh, how about that.

I guess the lesson learned is to read the FAQs before answering because the books and WD articles are useless. And to be fair DW spent months without an FAQ, it's fair for it to slip peoples minds.

So yeah, I guess it does stack.

Doesn't any source of ap improvement move you beyond "the amount in the book?"???

Dukeofstuff wrote:
Doesn't any source of ap improvement move you beyond "the amount in the book?"???

No? If I fire a Storm Bolter (AP0) with a Vengeance Round (Subtract 3" from the range of this weapon if it is a Pistol – or 6" otherwise – and improve the AP of the attack by 2 (e.g. an AP of 0 becomes -2), to a maximum AP of -3.), it goes to AP-2. Combat Doctrines then bumps that to -3AP.

However, if I fire a Stalker Bolt Rifle (AP-2) with a Vengeance Round, it goes to AP-3 (the cap of the Vengeance round), and Combat Doctrines doesn't make it AP-4, it stays at AP-3.

Likewise for a regular Bolt Rifle (AP-1) with Kraken Bolts in Tactical Doctrine, it caps at AP-2.

By the amount in the book I dont mean the AP on the weapon profile.

You have the base AP of the weapon as shown on its profile, but then you get bonuses from Doctrines and Special Ammunition, but some of the ammo types have a max limit (Kraken -2, Vengeance -3)

So if you fired Vengeance Rounds (-2 AP) from a Stalker Bolt Rifle (normally AP -2) in the devastator doctrine (a further -1 AP) you would think you would have -5 AP but this is capped at -3.

ItsPug wrote:
You should check the FAQ for the Deathwatch codex rather than the Space Marine FAQ...

Note that this is not in the Codex: Deathwatch FAQ. It is in the White Dwarf: Deathwatch FAQ.