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Hey guys - can you perform a "end of movement phase" action if you've come in from reinforcements? I haven't seen anything in the FAQs and don't recall if there is caveat on when timing occurs simultaneously, the player whose turn it is gets to choose which happens first.

So, you want to use sequencing to use a "end of movement phase" action before you come in from reinforcements ? I give you some time to think about that, maybe you get whats wrong with that idea.

 p5freak wrote:
So, you want to use sequencing to use a "end of movement phase" action before you come in from reinforcements ? I give you some time to think about that, maybe you get whats wrong with that idea.

No? The "Movement Phase" consists of two parts: 1. Move Units. 2. Reinforcements.

If you perform an action at the end of the movement phase and you also bring in reinforcements at the end of the movement phase, am I allowed to bring in reinforcements, and then perform the action with them? The two rules happen simultaneously.

There used to be a FAQ that stopped you from doing strats that happened at the end of the movement phase on stuff that had arrived from reinforcements, but that's now different, because reinforcements now don't happen at the end of the movement phase, they happen in the reinforcements sub-phase of the movement phase, which happens after the rest of the movement phase but not explicitly at the "end" of the movement phase.

This has the effect of making it ok to do stuff like putting cloud of flies on a unit of terminators that just came in from deep strike.

yukishiro1 wrote:
There used to be a FAQ that stopped you from doing strats that happened at the end of the movement phase on stuff that had arrived from reinforcements, but that's now different, because reinforcements now don't happen at the end of the movement phase, they happen in the reinforcements sub-phase of the movement phase, which happens after the rest of the movement phase but not explicitly at the "end" of the movement phase.

This has the effect of making it ok to do stuff like putting cloud of flies on a unit of terminators that just came in from deep strike.

That's been my take on this as well.

 puma713 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
So, you want to use sequencing to use a "end of movement phase" action before you come in from reinforcements ? I give you some time to think about that, maybe you get whats wrong with that idea.

No? The "Movement Phase" consists of two parts: 1. Move Units. 2. Reinforcements.

If you perform an action at the end of the movement phase and you also bring in reinforcements at the end of the movement phase, am I allowed to bring in reinforcements, and then perform the action with them? The two rules happen simultaneously.

Maybe i misunderstood. What exactly do you want to do ?

Reinforcements don't happen "at the end of the movement phase" any more. So it's not a sequencing issue. Reinfrocements arrive first, things that happen at the "end of the movement phase" happen after all reinforcements have been deployed.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Reinforcements don't happen "at the end of the movement phase" any more. So it's not a sequencing issue. Reinfrocements arrive first, things that happen at the "end of the movement phase" happen after all reinforcements have been deployed.

Well, technically they do. On page 208 it says that once all reinforcements have been brought in, the movement phase ends and you proceed to the psychic phase. However, the Sequencing block on page 201 makes it clear that even if it does happen simultaneously, that the player whose turn it is can choose which goes first. So, I could bring in someone in my opponent's deployment, and then Deploy Scramblers.

You cant do something with a unit which isnt on the battlefield. Sequencing literally means that something happens first, then something else happens, and so on.

 p5freak wrote:
You cant do something with a unit which isnt on the battlefield. Sequencing literally means that something happens first, then something else happens, and so on.

I'm not sure why you're not understanding, but I'll try to explain it more clearly. Reinforcements come on at the end of the movement phase. Deploy Scramblers happens at the end of the movement phase. They happen simultaneously. Therefore, you would use sequencing to say, "I am bringing on my Rangers. Now they're Deploying Scramblers."

I think you're conflating the end of the first step of the movement phase 1. Move Units, with the end of the movement phase en toto.

Except that that isn't true. The Movement phase is now defined as having two parts, Move Units and Reinforcements. The start and end occur before and after all the actions of those phases have taken place. So in terms of timing, it actually looks like this:

1 - start of Movement phase
2 - Move Units
3 - Reinforcements
4 - end of Movement phase

On page 208 it says that once all reinforcements have been brought in, the movement phase ends and you proceed to the psychic phase.

I disagree that this means the end of the phase comes under Reinforcements in its timing - but in any case, here it's a moot point. By this very definition, anything that happens "at the end of the Movement phase" has to happen after the Reinforcements have been set up.

 Super Ready wrote:
Except that that isn't true. The Movement phase is now defined as having two parts, Move Units and Reinforcements. The start and end occur before and after all the actions of those phases have taken place. So in terms of timing, it actually looks like this:

1 - start of Movement phase
2 - Move Units
3 - Reinforcements
4 - end of Movement phase

On page 208 it says that once all reinforcements have been brought in, the movement phase ends and you proceed to the psychic phase.

I disagree that this means the end of the phase comes under Reinforcements in its timing - but in any case, here it's a moot point. By this very definition, anything that happens "at the end of the Movement phase" has to happen after the Reinforcements have been set up.

Pretty much this. Reinforcements now arrive BEFORE the end of the movement phase, not at the end.

I agree with both posters above. Sequencing doesnt apply, because its not two rules happening at the same time. In the reinforcements part your units arrive on the battlefield, and after that you do any end of movement phase actions.

Reinforcements happen before the end of the movement phase, as has been stated. There are rules/stratagems that allow redeployment of units at the end of the movement phase, and those would kick in at the same time as performing actions and require sequencing. You can redeploy a unit, and then begin performing an action with it immediately afterwards. You can also begin performing the action with the unit, and then immediately redeploy them, but I'm pretty sure that counts as a normal move so the action would be failed.

 Oaka wrote:
You can redeploy a unit, and then begin performing an action with it immediately afterwards. You can also begin performing the action with the unit, and then immediately redeploy them, but I'm pretty sure that counts as a normal move so the action would be failed.

Actually, that depends entirely on the wording of the Action and the Stratagem/whatever that allows them to redeploy. When I've seen such Stratagems, they typically have wording like "this unit counts as having moved this turn". However, I'm not seeing any actions where simply the act of moving causes the Action to fail outright.
Example, page 285 "Investigate Sites", the requirement is that you be within 6" of the centre when you start the Action, and it completes at the end of your turn. You could even charge without a Stratagem, and the Action would still succeed.
Likewise with "Repair Teleport Homer", the requirement there is that your unit still be wholly within your opponent's deployment zone at the end of your next Command phase - you could whisk them a good foot away from where they were, and as long as that's somewhere still within the enemy deployment zone (and the unit doesn't get shot to pieces), you're still good.

I'm using a combination of the rules for Actions:

"If a unit is destroyed, makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls Back, attempts to manifest a psychic power, declares a charge, performs a Heroic Intervention or makes any attacks with ranged weapons after it has started to perform an action but before that action is completed, that action is failed."

and the rules for Repositioned and Replacement Units:

"2. Models in units that arrived as Reinforcements count as having moved a distance in inches equal to their Move characteristic this Movement phase."

Taken together, I think a replaced unit counts as having made a normal move, which causes any action it was performing to be failed. I'm sure I'm not supposed to use the words reinforce, reposition, redeploy, replace, reserve, remove, etc. so interchangeably but when I say one of those I actually mean whichever term is applicable to the rule. I've thoroughly confused myself on what the differences are between them all.

Yeah, I do think redeploying a unit would cause an action it started to fail. As usual with GW rules the language could be tightened up, but I do think it's fair to interpret the "counts as having moved a distance in inches equal to their Move characteristic" as " counts as having made a normal move."

Ah - correct. Sorry, I somehow completely managed to miss that first part out when I was looking at Actions...!