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How exactly does this work ? I have heard people saying that the MW happen for each dice, but i dont think thats right, because it would mean that a unit, which is charged by 12 bloodcrushers, would suffer up to 12D3 MWs, when every bloodcrusher is within 1" of an enemy model, and the players rolls twelve 6s. It doesnt say for each roll of 2+, or for each roll of 6.

Basically if you have 3 Bloodletter Cav and they are all within 1 inch of three different models in a single unit, you roll 3d6 and for every 2+ the enemy unit suffers a mortal wound. For every 6 it is D3 mortal wounds.

Up to 12D3 is correct as far as I can tell. Where is the confusion?

Are you just worried that this is too much damage? I would think that a unit is 12 bloodcrushers is not going to be optimal in any other situation, plus you have to be able to get all 12 of those bulky models within an inch of whatever you are charging for the full effect. In addition to rolling 12 sixes.

As a small follow up question for this stratagem.

I’ve read on Spikey bits that the stratagem is still active when you make your second charge and inflict MW too the next unit your charging.

I do not think it works like that but would like to have an explanation if it does or don’t.
Thanks

Tazberry wrote:
As a small follow up question for this stratagem.

I’ve read on Spikey bits that the stratagem is still active when you make your second charge and inflict MW too the next unit your charging.

I do not think it works like that but would like to have an explanation if it does or don’t.
Thanks

You activate the stratagem after you have moved your models in the charge phase. Anything that is in range at that point takes mortal wounds. If you charge again later then you no do not get to cause additional mortal wounds because the time when the stratagem allows you to inflict mortal wounds has already passed.

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Up to 12D3 is correct as far as I can tell. Where is the confusion?

It doesnt say for each roll of 2+, or for each roll of 6. Thats my confusion.

 Bilge Rat wrote:

Are you just worried that this is too much damage?

Yes, thats what i think.

 Bilge Rat wrote:

I would think that a unit is 12 bloodcrushers is not going to be optimal in any other situation, plus you have to be able to get all 12 of those bulky models within an inch of whatever you are charging for the full effect. In addition to rolling 12 sixes.

You can charge multiple units.

 Bilge Rat wrote:
You activate the stratagem after you have moved your models in the charge phase. Anything that is in range at that point takes mortal wounds. If you charge again later then you no do not get to cause additional mortal wounds because the time when the stratagem allows you to inflict mortal wounds has already passed.

I agree that you don't get a second wave of mortal wounds... but not because the time for causing wounds has passed. It's because in order for the stratagem to apply, you must have followed that first line which tells you to use it when you end the charge move - you didn't do this for that second charge. To attempt to use it again would mean using the stratagem twice in the same phase, which of course you can't do even if you have the extra Command Points.

As to the original question - I think you're reading this correctly, it's not exactly ambiguous. But on the table, both the typical smaller size of Bloodcrusher units, the large size of their bases and the coherency rules all mean that in practice, you're not going to be able to squeeze the models into 3 or more units in one go.
If you're taking a unit big enough to pull that off, you've paid the points to do so and if your opponent has that many units that close together that your charge successfully reaches all of them (bearing in mind that if you fail to reach even a single unit, the charge fails) - they were kind of asking for it.

 p5freak wrote:

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Up to 12D3 is correct as far as I can tell. Where is the confusion?

It doesnt say for each roll of 2+, or for each roll of 6. Thats my confusion.

But it says for each model in the bloodletter cav unit, you select one enemy unit with 1 inch and roll one D6 So you can roll many D6 up to the number of models in the charging unit if they all are within 1 inch of an enemy.

So for every model you have that finishes its charge move within 1 inch of an enemy, you get one roll. Every time that roll comes up a 2+ you do a MW. on a 6 it is D3.

As DeathReaper noted, for each model in the unit within 1" of an enemy unit, you roll a d6. You then apply those results, so in theory, you can roll up to 1 dice per model in the unit. However, given the base size of Khorne Cavalry and the 9th Edition Unit Coherency rules, that's not going to happen.

The Stratagem is not active for the second charge it allows. It does not last "until the end of the Movement phase" and therefore you do not get to go back and reapply the parts of the stratagem after making the second charge.

 alextroy wrote:
As DeathReaper noted, for each model in the unit within 1" of an enemy unit, you roll a d6. You then apply those results, so in theory, you can roll up to 1 dice per model in the unit. However, given the base size of Khorne Cavalry and the 9th Edition Unit Coherency rules, that's not going to happen.

It can happen. Imagine one enemy unit on top, one on the buttom, the bloodcrushers in the middle.

I don't think anybody's likely to run bloodcrushers in bigger units than 5 in 9th, and it's definitely possible to get all five into contact with something. It doesn't have to be a different model, they can all key off the same model if it's something big like a vehicle or knight that you can get all five into 1" of.

 p5freak wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
As DeathReaper noted, for each model in the unit within 1" of an enemy unit, you roll a d6. You then apply those results, so in theory, you can roll up to 1 dice per model in the unit. However, given the base size of Khorne Cavalry and the 9th Edition Unit Coherency rules, that's not going to happen.

It can happen. Imagine one enemy unit on top, one on the buttom, the bloodcrushers in the middle.

Vertical Engagement is probably the only way it will ever happen, and only if you can move the Bloodcrushers below the target.

As already stated, you definitely cause 1MW per 2-5 rolled, for a maximum of 12D3 MWs.

It might sound powerful, but 12 Bloodcrushers is 540pts before upgrades, and you're unlikely to get enough models into range to maximise it. You'd want to use it mainly to clear a screen so you could charge something a bit more meaty.

Even if you did get in range, the chance of rolling 12 out of 12 6s to generate 12d3MW is so close to zero that you could play 40k for the rest of your life every day and never do it.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Even if you did get in range, the chance of rolling 12 out of 12 6s to generate 12d3MW is so close to zero that you could play 40k for the rest of your life every day and never do it.

Not to mention that it's an equal chance to roll 12 1s.

Back-of-the-envelope calculations say you could roll 12D6s every three seconds for the rest of your life with no breaks and not even come close to having a reasonable chance of doing it.

Rolling a 6 (for D3 MWs) roughly balances out any rolls of 1 (for 0 MWs), so you could reasonably expect each Bloodcrusher in range to cause 1 MW. 12 MWs is good, but requires such an investment in points (540+) and CPs to get them there (2 to deep strike, 1 for Banner of Blood, 1 for Brass Stampede) that it's by no means overpowered.

As for multicharging, if you charge 3 units with 12 bloodcrushers, you will have to split that up between them - you don't get (on the magic 12 6's) 12D3 on each unit, you get 1D3 from each bloodcrusher, allocated to a unit within 1" of that bloodcrusher. So you will only water down the effect by multicharging.

It’s per crusher, so 12x D3 is indeed possible, though highly unlikely.

Looking at the wording, I’d say it was written that way to prevent multi charges from hitting extra impacts against other units.

While hitting multiple targets with each crusher is situational at best, it’s still possibly.
They likely wanted to word it so it prevents them doing those hits against every unit within 1”

If you roll a 6 do you get the 1MW and the d3 MW because you satisfied both the 2+ and the roll a 6 requirements, or does the d3 MW on a 6 replace the 1 MW on a 2+?

Aash wrote:
If you roll a 6 do you get the 1MW and the d3 MW because you satisfied both the 2+ and the roll a 6 requirements, or does the d3 MW on a 6 replace the 1 MW on a 2+?

The result is one or the other, not both.

Aash wrote:
If you roll a 6 do you get the 1MW and the d3 MW because you satisfied both the 2+ and the roll a 6 requirements, or does the d3 MW on a 6 replace the 1 MW on a 2+?

I see where you're coming from on this, and at first I thought the same - it really could do with having "instead" at the end of the line.
However, DeathReaper is correct, and it's because the two clauses are separated by a semicolon. Quirks of the English language to the confusing rescue.

From a damage output perspective, assuming that the rules mean that you roll a d6 per model, on a 1 you do 0 MW, 2~5 you do 1 MW, 6 you do d3 MW, so 2 MW on average. Add these all up and divide by 6 and you get an average MW output per Bloodcrusher model in range of 1.

Therefore my suggestion is remove the dice rolling and just re-word it to say you do 1 MW per model in range. Get 12 models in range via some herculean feat of geometry, congrats 12 MW from a 540 point unit and 1 CP. And remember you probably spent another 15 points and 3 CP on a banner, banner upgrade and deepstrike for this unit.