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So a discussion at classichammer over the last Batrep I did has become a bit involved and I wanted to get some fresh minds in on this.

If a unit passes a Terror test at the start of the turn for being within the 6" bubble is it then exempt from the Fear test for declaring a charge that same turn?


My argument is that there is a clear difference between Start Of The Turn when the Terror test happened, and the Movement phase, where the charge was declared. I took the Fear test and failed after passing the Terror Bomb test, and the discussion now is whether or not I should have even taken that test in the first place.

Thats an interesting one. I can see the argument both ways but do think you played it wrong.
P.82 of the rulebook says;
"However, you never have to take a Terror test and a Fear test from the same enemy or situation - just take a Terror test..."
Though that could be taken to mean to that when charged by a Terror causing monster you wouldn't do the Terror test followed by the Fear, the fact that it says "enemy or situation" suggests the opposite.

 ingtaer wrote:
Thats an interesting one. I can see the argument both ways but do think you played it wrong.
P.82 of the rulebook says;
"However, you never have to take a Terror test and a Fear test from the same enemy or situation - just take a Terror test..."
Though that could be taken to mean to that when charged by a Terror causing monster you wouldn't do the Terror test followed by the Fear, the fact that it says "enemy or situation" suggests the opposite.

I interpreted the situation as different for each test, but "same enemy" is pretty clear.

Right, same enemy BUT you treat that enemy as fear causing in "subsequent encounters." So when is it a subsequent encounter? During the next PHASE or during the next TURN? That's the question I think we need to be asking here.

Your thought experiment in classichammer was interesting, too. What if during the magic phase they charge due to some item or spell? Does it still carry over then? (Although most magic caused charges do say ignore psych tests and sometimes even prevent charge reactions...)

I think what feels most weird to me is if the two tests would happen back to back and the fact that knights charging from 7" would only be half as terrified as knights charging from 5". From 7" they are not hit with the Start of Turn and only take one test that covers both Fear and Terror on their charge.

MAYBE they were intending this and positioning is key and fast movers get momentum going before they have time to consider the consequences of charging a Carnosaur?

MAYBE they should have made the "Terror Halo" something that gets triggered at 6" whenever it occurs, not just during the Start of Turn phase? (those Knights from 7" out maybe wouldnt take their Terror test until they hit the 6" mark? from 7" they would be charging a fear-or-worse causing enemy? Then they would get hit with the same 2 tests that the Knights charging from 5" get hit with?) but that gets into changing rules rather than interpreting them.


As always I just want to thank everybody for being so knowlegable and respectful. It's incredible how this old game still has people helping each other out like this.

Actually both Wild Call and Unseen Lurker have you test for psychology, it just forces the receiving unit to hold as its only charge reaction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Just Tony wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:
Thats an interesting one. I can see the argument both ways but do think you played it wrong.
P.82 of the rulebook says;
"However, you never have to take a Terror test and a Fear test from the same enemy or situation - just take a Terror test..."
Though that could be taken to mean to that when charged by a Terror causing monster you wouldn't do the Terror test followed by the Fear, the fact that it says "enemy or situation" suggests the opposite.

I interpreted the situation as different for each test, but "same enemy" is pretty clear.

Upon rereading the entry it looks as that section applies solely to clarifying what is meant by "a model that causes Terror also causes Fear", and is there to keep people from making both tests from the same charge for instance.

We used to have units take a fear test to charge despite having passed the terror test. It makes sense; a regiment is not terrified by the dragon close by but still must face its fears to charge said dragon.

 ingtaer wrote:
Thats an interesting one. I can see the argument both ways but do think you played it wrong.
P.82 of the rulebook says;
"However, you never have to take a Terror test and a Fear test from the same enemy or situation - just take a Terror test..."
Though that could be taken to mean to that when charged by a Terror causing monster you wouldn't do the Terror test followed by the Fear, the fact that it says "enemy or situation" suggests the opposite.

The counter point that I made is that there is no opportunity to take a fear test in the "Start of the Turn" phase as that is a test made in the movement phase. The only logical fear test that you would have to worry about while taking a terror test is during the movement phase. Thus if you were hit with a "Terror halo" at the start of the turn, which fear test do you take?

On another note, I do remember taking terror tests at the start of the turn using my dwarves during the 6th and 7th, and we never took a fear test to charge the terror causing opponant.

As far as being charged or charging a terror causing unit for the first time, the rules clearly state that this is the situation where your terror test counts for both terror and fear.

WHAT I LIKE ABOUT JT'S INTERPRETATION: This feels like the cleanest way to go (mostly) by the letter of the rules. You don't have to remember to carry over a passed test from phase to phase. This way also means that positioning is key and you can make the argument that fast movers get some momentum going from over 6" away before they have a chance to realize just how big and scary the Terror causing thing is (taking only 1 test if charging from outside of the "halo" in total that Turn rather than 2 total tests)

WHAT I DONT LIKE ABOUT JT'S INTERPRETATION: in a good amount of cases you could have your Start of Turn phase be the Terror test, start of turn phase ends, Movement phase begins and immediately you have to have the same unit test again for the same enemy. This just feels bad I think, to have the charge fail because of that when charges are so key in this game. Goblin wolf riders attempting to charge a dragon from 6.01" away have an expected 42.5% success rate. Empire Swordsmen with superior Leadership charging a dragon from 5.99" away have an expected 33% success rate. But were they to have Started their Turn at 6.01" away like the Goblins the Swordsmen would be getting that charge off 57.5% of the time. That doesn't feel right to me.

MY OPINION: I like TinyLegions' point that they DO intend for ONE fear test auto pass. I think it is within the letter and spirit of the rules to carry over JUST THAT ONE fear autopass when it applies to a unit that just took its one and only Terror test of the game during its Start of Turn phase due to being within the "halo" of the enemy it wishes to charge. That sounds very complicated but all i mean is this: Empire Swordsmen are 5.99" away from Carnosaur at Start of Turn. They pass Terror test. Movement Phase begins, Swordsmen declare a charge on that same Carnosaur - this test is considered auto passed due to the Start of Turn phase. That's it. Anything after that counts as a "subsequent encounter" so the enemy causes Fear and all applicable Fear tests need to be taken. This closes any loopholes from Magic or Shooting phases, this keeps you having to carry anything over a VERY short carry over and it doesn't suck the fun out of a game by ruining a big charge for a unit that already passed a Terror test 5 seconds ago.

OscarWao wrote:
We used to have units take a fear test to charge despite having passed the terror test. It makes sense; a regiment is not terrified by the dragon close by but still must face its fears to charge said dragon.

You can also counter that if a regiment already faced its terror, it's fear of the dragon is assuaged as they are already psyching themselves up for a charge. I think about the line on a failed charge on page 52 of the BRB: "This represents when troops have begun to charge before realizing it is impossible to reach their enemy: consequently their movement peters out as they loose impetus and enthusiasm." If a unit is gaining enthusiasm and impetus to charge to begin with on something that they already faced a terrifying threat to their psyche, then what is fear at that moment when they are mentally gearing up for a charge.