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Like orks havent been hit hard enough you also had to invalidate grots :(

I mean that nothing should be less than 5 points is just odd. Guardsmen are what 6 points? like they can even remotely do the same things

Given that it wasn't done in a war, it's not a war crime. So, you've been proven wrong.

Having a minimum points cost makes some amount of sense, but the thing is, that minimum is far too high compared to where the mainstay heavy infantry of the game is.

The comparison to Guardsmen is irrelevant as I see it, simply because they are not an option for Ork players. Grots have value as the cheapest models within the faction and the cheapest way to get one of the 'core' Detachments.
Whether that value is worth a pretty paltry 3pt saving compared to a Boy remains to be seen, although I very much suspect that it isn't. But as always, if Grots continue to appear in successful lists, then cross-faction comparisons frankly don't matter.

To be very clear, I suspect that 5pts is still too high to justify over a Boy, but I think we should allow the game to settle before writing them off completely. Guardsmen being objectively better doesn't matter because they are not an alternative option, in much the same way that Chaos Cultists saw use in 8th.

Grots lost like half their usage the moment we lost the opportunity to milk CP by making cheap detatchments by putting grots in them to fill out troops slots.

Now they're just expensive units for what they do, which is basically nothing. Why do people use grots? Because they still have uses and its the cheapest unit orks have for sitting on points.

And the occational grot shield.

But yes they are insanely overpriced. The price between Boy and Grot is too close to one another yet the difference in power is night and day.


But then again what did i expect. it seems like most changes from 8th to 9th as well as the point changes and FAQs were deliberately made to ruin Orks.

War crimes !

 Stevefamine wrote:
War crimes !

War crimes indeed my friend!

Would sort of care more if Ork lists with grots weren't placing and even winning the limited tournaments that are operating.

Beardedragon wrote:
Grots lost like half their usage the moment we lost the opportunity to milk CP by making cheap detatchments by putting grots in them to fill out troops slots.

Now they're just expensive units for what they do, which is basically nothing. Why do people use grots? Because they still have uses and its the cheapest unit orks have for sitting on points.

And the occational grot shield.

But yes they are insanely overpriced. The price between Boy and Grot is too close to one another yet the difference in power is night and day.


But then again what did i expect. it seems like most changes from 8th to 9th as well as the point changes and FAQs were deliberately made to ruin Orks.

How many points is an extra 10 wounds on a Warboss with relic klaw worth? Or the value when stopping rounds coming into your loots blob?

These are the reasons grots are priced as they are, there isn't a fixed definable value to what they can ccomplish. You perform an action with a grot, youre not wasting a unit that can charge or shoot etc. It's not clear what that is worth in points. Their vertical height, they're incredibly short so easy to hide from LoS when other units can't, again has no real price tag that can be defined to it.

GW doesn't set out to ruin orks, they just aren't sure what they want from them and play it too safe I think.

I've said it before and i"ll say it again: If GW is worried about min size grot units pushing out Ork Boyz, just give them AOS horde pricing.

First 10: 5ppm.
Second 10: 3ppm
Third 10: 2ppm.

100pts total for a 30-grot blob, compared to 90pts for 30 in 8th.

New morale makes up for a 10% price hike IMO.

3x10 grots have many advantages over 1x30 grots so some price differential is warranted, and it keeps them from being an ultracheap buy-in to get a detachment or an ultracheap objective holder to force ork boyz out of lists.

Grots are 1 wound per 5 points, Marines are 1 wound per 8 points.

??

Why should grots even be even *better*

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Grots are 1 wound per 5 points, Marines are 1 wound per 8 points.

??

Why should grots even be even *better*

I'm having a tough time figuring out if this is a joke or not?

...because a wound at T4 Sv3+ Ld8 should be worth much, much more than a wound at T2 Sv- Ld4?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Grots are 1 wound per 5 points, Marines are 1 wound per 8 points.

??

Why should grots even be even *better*

I'm having a tough time figuring out if this is a joke or not?

...because a wound at T4 Sv3+ Ld8 should be worth much, much more than a wound at T2 Sv- Ld4?

Saddly probably Not a Joke given there is people saying 2W marines won't be competitive at 18 points per model

Ice_can wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Grots are 1 wound per 5 points, Marines are 1 wound per 8 points.

??

Why should grots even be even *better*

I'm having a tough time figuring out if this is a joke or not?

...because a wound at T4 Sv3+ Ld8 should be worth much, much more than a wound at T2 Sv- Ld4?

Saddly probably Not a Joke given there is people saying 2W marines won't be competitive at 18 points per model

meh, 2 w marines won't be because for 2 pts more you get far superior rifles and an additional A.

as for cult marines, considering most of them are allready preeeeettttyyy close to overpriced i have no idea how they will perorm.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Grots are 1 wound per 5 points, Marines are 1 wound per 8 points.

??

Why should grots even be even *better*

I'm having a tough time figuring out if this is a joke or not?

...because a wound at T4 Sv3+ Ld8 should be worth much, much more than a wound at T2 Sv- Ld4?

Saddly probably Not a Joke given there is people saying 2W marines won't be competitive at 18 points per model

meh, 2 w marines won't be because for 2 pts more you get far superior rifles and an additional A.

as for cult marines, considering most of them are allready preeeeettttyyy close to overpriced i have no idea how they will perorm.

The issue I have is they are still better than 2 Firewarriors, Guardians, Kabalites who are all 9ppm.
That 18 points for tac marine doesnt compete with intercessors says intercessors are too cheap not 18 ppm 2W tacs are too cheap.

Ice_can wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Grots are 1 wound per 5 points, Marines are 1 wound per 8 points.

??

Why should grots even be even *better*

I'm having a tough time figuring out if this is a joke or not?

...because a wound at T4 Sv3+ Ld8 should be worth much, much more than a wound at T2 Sv- Ld4?

Saddly probably Not a Joke given there is people saying 2W marines won't be competitive at 18 points per model

meh, 2 w marines won't be because for 2 pts more you get far superior rifles and an additional A.

as for cult marines, considering most of them are allready preeeeettttyyy close to overpriced i have no idea how they will perorm.

The issue I have is they are still better than 2 Firewarriors, Guardians, Kabalites who are all 9ppm.
That 18 points for tac marine doesnt compete with intercessors says intercessors are too cheap not 18 ppm 2W tacs are too cheap.

see, but you gave the keyword here i'll mark it.
They won't be , simple as. especially if you are talking about an faction that has with mirror matches removed a really nice winrate.
And i have not stated anything about if they are too cheap, just in regards to competitveness.

Not to mention grots are 3 and a bit bodies for the price of one marine.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Not to mention grots are 3 and a bit bodies for the price of one marine.

your commitment to taking the P is impressive.

the_scotsman wrote:
I've said it before and i"ll say it again: If GW is worried about min size grot units pushing out Ork Boyz, just give them AOS horde pricing.

First 10: 5ppm.
Second 10: 3ppm
Third 10: 2ppm.

I've been half expecting such a thing. Perhaps it will get rolled out with new codexes.

We really don't need a new thread with an extremely inappropriate title for a topic that's been acknowledged and rehashed more than once, let's try and be a bit better please. If anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me.