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Good Day fellow Gamers

i just played a few games of WH 40k with a friend and some Questions occured.

1. When there is a Unit embarked on a Trukk, does the Deathskull Reroll apply to each the Trukk AND the Unit(s) inside or do i have to Choose because they count as one Unit while embarked?

2. When i "Da Jump" a Unit into the closest distance possible (9" and Charge, do i need to roll a 8+ or 9+? So basically in Math Terms: is engagement Range < 1" or <=1"?

Help is much appreciated.

NBC_Demo wrote:
Good Day fellow Gamers
i just played a few games of WH 40k with a friend and some Questions occured.
1. When there is a Unit embarked on a Trukk, does the Deathskull Reroll apply to each the Trukk AND the Unit(s) inside or do i have to Choose because they count as one Unit while embarked?
2. When i "Da Jump" a Unit into the closest distance possible (9" and Charge, do i need to roll a 8+ or 9+? So basically in Math Terms: is engagement Range < 1" or <=1"?
Help is much appreciated.

Hi there! Can't answer the first one I'm afraid, but for the second one - it's important to note that your Jump needs to be more than 9" away from any enemy models. Think of it as 9.0001", or whatever.
If you were to roll an 8 to charge, that'd bring it down to 1.0001", and your charge would fail as you're not "within" that 1" Engagement Range. Therefore you need to roll a 9.

NBC_Demo wrote:
1. When there is a Unit embarked on a Trukk, does the Deathskull Reroll apply to each the Trukk AND the Unit(s) inside or do i have to Choose because they count as one Unit while embarked?

This is incorrect. A Transport and the embarked unit are not considered to be one unit. The transport is a unit and the other is an embarked unit(s). Should the embarked unit happen to be allowed to do anything, it is considered to have done the same move as the transport and be subject to limitations the transport has.

@Super Ready - THX!

@alextroy - So if they count as seperate Units i have correctly assumed that i can reroll for both Units even while embarked. Thx a lot.

NBC_Demo wrote:
When there is a Unit embarked on a Trukk, does the Deathskull Reroll apply to each the Trukk AND the Unit(s) inside or do i have to Choose because they count as one Unit while embarked?

There have been long, unresovable aguments on the forum about this before. The rules say that the unit inside the Trukk technically doesn't exist on the table. Some people argue that this means it is not allowed to use any abilities, even inherant ones like re-rolling shots. Others say that the Trukk rules allow them to shoot as normal and so of course they should get the re-roll that they can use the rest of the time. There is no official answer regarding which one is correct so you have to agree with your opponent.

 Bilge Rat wrote:

NBC_Demo wrote:
When there is a Unit embarked on a Trukk, does the Deathskull Reroll apply to each the Trukk AND the Unit(s) inside or do i have to Choose because they count as one Unit while embarked?

There have been long, unresovable aguments on the forum about this before. The rules say that the unit inside the Trukk technically doesn't exist on the table. Some people argue that this means it is not allowed to use any abilities, even inherant ones like re-rolling shots. Others say that the Trukk rules allow them to shoot as normal and so of course they should get the re-roll that they can use the rest of the time. There is no official answer regarding which one is correct so you have to agree with your opponent.

It's still worth noting that one interpretation cause multiple things to break (infinite bomb squigs), while the other makes the game work as expected.

NBC_Demo wrote:
@Super Ready - THX!

@alextroy - So if they count as seperate Units i have correctly assumed that i can reroll for both Units even while embarked. Thx a lot.

Units embarked can't re-roll anything as those re-rolls are granted by some abilities, and any ability doesn't work on an embarked unit.

The only ability that works for orks on an embarked unit that I can think of is the 5++ granted by the KFF, which is legit thanks to a FAQ but it doesn't work as a bubble, it just gives the 5++ to the vehicle while the bearer is embarked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bilge Rat wrote:

NBC_Demo wrote:
When there is a Unit embarked on a Trukk, does the Deathskull Reroll apply to each the Trukk AND the Unit(s) inside or do i have to Choose because they count as one Unit while embarked?

There have been long, unresovable aguments on the forum about this before. The rules say that the unit inside the Trukk technically doesn't exist on the table. Some people argue that this means it is not allowed to use any abilities, even inherant ones like re-rolling shots. Others say that the Trukk rules allow them to shoot as normal and so of course they should get the re-roll that they can use the rest of the time. There is no official answer regarding which one is correct so you have to agree with your opponent.

RAW there's no misunderstanding. It's just written so bad that utterly penalizes shooty units that are overcosted without their full abilties but also allows some abuses like safe plasma or infinite bomb squigs.

i never heard of infinite Bomb Squigs... how shall that work?

So no reroll? Why does GW not clarify it? Would be so easy... Literally one Sentence.


i played my buddy again and two more Questions occured so far:

1. when i have an Ork Biker, do i have to choose (within 12") to shoot with Pistols or Dakkagun or can i use Both? Because in Melee i use the Choppa, so the Pistol would be useless...

2. When half a Unit is in a Ruin and the other half isnt, how do i resolve Attacks and Saves in Terms of Cover? Does the Defending Guy get to choose? What if there are more Wounds to be allocated than there are Guys inside the Ruin?

2a: Same with LOS, when i just see two Models and lets say make 4 failed Saves, do just the two "LOS Guys" die or do i have to pick two more from the NON LOS Part of the Unit?

Thanks for the help, some stuff is really confusing to me... Like my Meganobz can shoot out of a Trukk, but cant whilst in CC, however my Trukks Big Shoota can o.O

NBC_Demo wrote:
i never heard of infinite Bomb Squigs... how shall that work?

So no reroll? Why does GW not clarify it? Would be so easy... Literally one Sentence.

The statement "remove the model after firing" is listed under a column named Abilities but no abilities work on embarked units. At the moment there's no distinction from units' abilities and weapons' abilities, which means none of them works according to the open topped rule.

So stricly RAW the player can't remove the model after firing with it and the bomb squig is able to fire again in the subsequent turn.

NBC_Demo wrote:
i never heard of infinite Bomb Squigs... how shall that work?

So no reroll? Why does GW not clarify it? Would be so easy... Literally one Sentence.


i played my buddy again and two more Questions occured so far:

1. when i have an Ork Biker, do i have to choose (within 12") to shoot with Pistols or Dakkagun or can i use Both? Because in Melee i use the Choppa, so the Pistol would be useless...

2. When half a Unit is in a Ruin and the other half isnt, how do i resolve Attacks and Saves in Terms of Cover? Does the Defending Guy get to choose? What if there are more Wounds to be allocated than there are Guys inside the Ruin?

2a: Same with LOS, when i just see two Models and lets say make 4 failed Saves, do just the two "LOS Guys" die or do i have to pick two more from the NON LOS Part of the Unit?

Thanks for the help, some stuff is really confusing to me... Like my Meganobz can shoot out of a Trukk, but cant whilst in CC, however my Trukks Big Shoota can o.O

Because I don't think they realize it's an issue currently. GW's ruleset has always been "permissive" - i.e. if a general rule says you usually CANT do a thing, and then a rule a unit has or a unique ability has says that you CAN do a thing, then the CAN trumps the CANT.

-General rule says that units are not allowed to shoot if they fall back

-Ultramarines have a special rule that says they can shoot after falling back

-Ultramarines therefore trump the general rule.

And if you don't know, Bomb Squigs' rule that says that they get destroyed if you use them once, is actually a rule on their datasheet. So, if your opponent claims "no rules apply" when you shoot out of a transport using open-topped, you can put a unit with bomb squigs in there and they're allowed to use them infinitely.

For your questions:

1) When a model shoots it can choose one of 3 options. option 1: Shoot with all its PISTOL weapons. Option 2: Shoot with 1 GRENADE weapon (only one person per squad). Option 3: Shoot with all its other weapons that don't have PISTOL or GRENADE.

The only purpose of the slugga on a warbike is if your opponent either charges you, or survives and stays in combat long enough to get around to your turn again, then you'd shoot the pistol because pistols are allowed to be used in engagement range.

2) When wounds are taken, *technically* you're supposed to be resolving them one at a time. However, since that would take a million years, it's general practice to combine rolls together. The defender always gets to choose who takes wounds, so yes, you can allocate them to the models who are in cover rather than out of cover, and usually my practice would be like this:

I have 10 boyz, 6 of which are in cover. They take 10 wounds.

If I roll as bad as I can possibly roll, I'll lose all 6 to the first 6 and then I won't have anyone in cover anymore. So I take 6 of those wounds, and I roll them, and I save 2. Now I take 2 more wounds and roll them and lose both. Then I take the last 2 wounds and I take them on guys who aren't in cover.

So basically, roll the number of save dice equal to the worst case scenario, i.e. how many wounds of guys you have in cover.

2a) You can lose guys who are out of line of sight, BUT again technically weapons are resolved one at a time, and that's the sequence you default to in weird scenarios. so lets say 10 ork boyz are ALMOST hidden by a ruin, only 4 boyz poking out, and a squad of 5 marines can see them. They all declare they'd like to shoot their boltguns at him.

You would then determine that if two marines made perfect shots, all 4 hits all 4 wounds all 4 saves, they'd kill those 4 ork boyz, worst case scenario for you. So you resolve the 4 shots, and maybe you lose 3 of the 4 visible boyz. Then you'd resolve 1 more marine's shots.

If you lose 2 boyz from that marine's shots, bad luck. The wounds don't disappear the second the last visible boy dies, because you resolve shooting 1 weapon at a time.

Also, you have to resolve shooting from identical weapons together. So if one of those marines had a flamer, and for some reason your opponent decided to go for the boltguns first, he couldn't switch to the flamer after 2 boltguns when he goes "oh shoot I'm going to kill that last visible boy and then my flamer won't get to shoot them."

Tanks Guys for your answers.

@the_scotsman:

1. So i can, when i am in CC, shoot with Pistols in my Shooting Phase, and hack and slay with the choppas in my Fight Phase? Does that Apply to my Slugga Boyz as well? Or am i getting it wrong?

2 and 2a: I think i understand that now, thanks a lot!

NBC_Demo wrote:
Tanks Guys for your answers.

@the_scotsman:

1. So i can, when i am in CC, shoot with Pistols in my Shooting Phase, and hack and slay with the choppas in my Fight Phase? Does that Apply to my Slugga Boyz as well? Or am i getting it wrong?

2 and 2a: I think i understand that now, thanks a lot!

You can shoot with pistols IN YOUR SHOOTING PHASE even if you are within 1".

in practice, this happens pretty rarely because if you're the one charging, you need to get through your fight phase, then your opponent needs to not fall back, then you need to get through his fight phase, then you need to get back to your shooting phase.

It's usually a thing that happens when you're on defense rather than offense.

Yes, you can always shoot pistols like sluggas or grot blasters at people you are locked in combat with.

Wow nice, I actually had the Opportunity to shoot my Pistols in CC in a game yesterday and didnt know it... damn


THX a LOT!

It's a departure from previous editions where you were considered to be "in combat", or "in base contact". That's where the confusion lies, I think.
"Engagement Range" is importantly not directly tied to the Assault or Fight phases. Because of this, you can do anything you like in Engagement Range that you normally would be able to, unless the rules state you can't.
So for example, you can also use psychic powers in Engagement Range.