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Hello :

DETACHMENT : Battalion

HQ1 : [Warlord] Shadowseer [115]
PSY : Twilight Pathways, Veil of Tears
TRAIT : Player of the Twilight
HQ2 : Troupe Master, Fusion pistol, Harlequin's caress [76]

Troup1 : 10 Troupe, 3 Fusion pistols, 10 Harlequin's kiss [215]
Troup2 : 5 Troupe, 5 Fusion pistols, 5 Harlequin's caress [125]
Troup3 : 5 Troupe, 5 Fusion pistols, 5 Harlequin's caress [125]
Troup4 : 5 Troupe, 5 Fusion pistols, 5 Harlequin's caress [125]

Elite1 : Death Jester [50]
RELIC : Cegorach's Lament
Elite2 : Solitaire, Harlequin's kiss, Harlequin's caress [102]

FA1 : 5 Skyweaver, 5 Haywire cannons, 5 Zephyrglaives [275]
FA2 : 5 Skyweaver, 5 Haywire cannons, 5 Zephyrglaives [275]
FA3 : 5 Skyweaver, 5 Haywire cannons, 5 Zephyrglaives [275]

Transport1 : Starweaver, 2 Shuriken cannons [80]
Transport2 : Starweaver, 2 Shuriken cannons [80]
Transport3 : Starweaver, 2 Shuriken cannons [80]

ARMY TOTAL [1998]

So, I have some questions :
1 : Which Masque? Frozen Star or Soaring Spite? Frozen star is a safe bet, but with 3*5 Fusion pistols in 3 Starweavers, Soaring Spite may be good. I don't know...
2 : About the melee weapons, which one are the best? Harlequin's caress looks good on every target, but I put some Harlequin's kiss on the Troupe of 10 because they have the wounds reroll from the Troupe Master. I'm not sure what's best though.
3 : I'm also not sure about the Psychic powers, I'm afraid "Twilight Pathways" will put the troup of 10 outside of my HQ's aura...
4 : Should I spend some CP for some Pivotal roles? If yes, which ones?

Your masque is probably personal preference. Both are good. I personally go soaring spite for the extra mobility and the strat to hop back in transports. But the +1 to wound strat for FS is great too.

As far as weapons, caress is pretty much a consensus as the best, but the others are by no means bad. If you see a lot of invuls and multiwound models, kiss is probably better. I like to have a mix, but heavier on the caress.

Definitely should add at least one pivotal role, veil of illusion on the shadowseer is almost a must.

For psychic, I like webway dance for an extra bit of durability, but you could also go shards of light for a targetable smite. Definitely keep twilight pathways though.

I think you are missing out if you don't give the troupe master the twilight fang, can save you a few points and turn him into a really CC monster.

If you give the Lament to the Death Jester, you may want to try harvesters torment for extra shots. Humbling cruelty is also a great choice. I wouldn't spend a CP to add those roles though, swap out his original ability.

Overall, a pretty solid list, the 5 man troupes are a little heavy on the upgrades. You may also want to add cegorachs rose to the solitaire to give him some extra punch.

cag6464 wrote:
Your masque is probably personal preference. Both are good. I personally go soaring spite for the extra mobility and the strat to hop back in transports. But the +1 to wound strat for FS is great too.

As far as weapons, caress is pretty much a consensus as the best, but the others are by no means bad. If you see a lot of invuls and multiwound models, kiss is probably better. I like to have a mix, but heavier on the caress.

Definitely should add at least one pivotal role, veil of illusion on the shadowseer is almost a must.

For psychic, I like webway dance for an extra bit of durability, but you could also go shards of light for a targetable smite. Definitely keep twilight pathways though.

I think you are missing out if you don't give the troupe master the twilight fang, can save you a few points and turn him into a really CC monster.

If you give the Lament to the Death Jester, you may want to try harvesters torment for extra shots. Humbling cruelty is also a great choice. I wouldn't spend a CP to add those roles though, swap out his original ability.

Overall, a pretty solid list, the 5 man troupes are a little heavy on the upgrades. You may also want to add cegorachs rose to the solitaire to give him some extra punch.

Hello, thanks for your input !

What do you think about this one :

DETACHMENT : Battalion Soaring Spite = 10 CP (-1 Pivotal role, -1 Relic)

HQ1 : [Warlord] Shadowseer [115]
[Psy] : Twilight Pathways, Shards of light
[Trait] : Player of the Twilight
[Pivotal role] : Veil of Illusion
HQ2 : Shadowseer [115]
[Psy] : Twilight Pathways, Webway Dance
HQ3 : Troupe Master, Fusion pistol [70]
[Relic] : The Twilight Fang

Troup1 : 5 Troupe, 4 Fusion pistols, 4 Harlequin's caress [114]
Troup2 : 5 Troupe, 4 Fusion pistols, 4 Harlequin's caress [114]
Troup3 : 5 Troupe, 4 Fusion pistols, 4 Harlequin's caress [114]
Troup4 : 5 Troupe, 3 Fusion pistols, 4 Harlequin's caress [109]

Elite1 : Death Jester [50]
[Relic] : Cegorach's Lament
[Pivot role] : Harvester torments
Elite2 : Death Jester [50]
[Pivot role] : Humbling cruelty

FA1 : 5 Skyweaver, 5 Haywire cannons, 5 Zephyrglaives [275]
FA2 : 5 Skyweaver, 5 Haywire cannons, 5 Zephyrglaives [275]
FA3 : 5 Skyweaver, 5 Haywire cannons, 5 Zephyrglaives [275]

Transport1 : Starweaver, 2 Shuriken cannons [80]
Transport2 : Starweaver, 2 Shuriken cannons [80]
Transport3 : Starweaver, 2 Shuriken cannons [80]
Transport4 : Starweaver, 2 Shuriken cannons [80]

ARMY TOTAL [1996]

I can swap the 2d Shadowseer and the 2d Death Jester for an additional 5 man trooper + Starweaver though.

The second list is much better for Soaring Spite and the change for swapping out the second Shadowseer is probably better because if you're not running any on foot, you probably won't need the second support.

I do think you should mix in some kisses if you're going to kit any melee weapons.
In most scenarios the caress and kiss will preform around the same except for multi wound and especially against anything with SV++. Prime example is Lord of Change with Impossible Robe. The kisses will double their effectiveness against something like that compared to caress and dealing with that with only fusions would be really unreliable.
In particular kisses will preform better at murdering anything with lots of wounds and T7

I think the only pivotal role is for the Shadowseer as you can pick up 2 defensive auras which is especially great with Starweavers.

Just a couple tweaks i would suggest.

I would put the webway dance power on the shadowseer with the veil of illusion, swapping out twilight pathways. That way you have a super buffing character, -1 to wound, -6" range, and 6+++. At that point it is also worth considering giving him the shadowstone to increase those auras to 9". But that will cost an extra 2 CP, so a little steep.

I still think maybe the troupes could lighten on the upgrades. Maybe one with just fusion, and another with just kisses. No sure what to do with those extra pts though, maybe make a couple squads 6 models instead of 5.

I would suggest playing a few games and seeing what works.

SiLKY wrote:The second list is much better for Soaring Spite and the change for swapping out the second Shadowseer is probably better because if you're not running any on foot, you probably won't need the second support.

I do think you should mix in some kisses if you're going to kit any melee weapons.
In most scenarios the caress and kiss will preform around the same except for multi wound and especially against anything with SV++. Prime example is Lord of Change with Impossible Robe. The kisses will double their effectiveness against something like that compared to caress and dealing with that with only fusions would be really unreliable.
In particular kisses will preform better at murdering anything with lots of wounds and T7

I think the only pivotal role is for the Shadowseer as you can pick up 2 defensive auras which is especially great with Starweavers.

That's what I thought too about the 2d Shadowseer, do I really need him? Because 5 more Fusion pistol/caress/kiss Troupe in a Starweaver sounds good.

I didn't thought about that kind of units, I think you're right about the kisses, thanks !

cag6464 wrote:Just a couple tweaks i would suggest.

I would put the webway dance power on the shadowseer with the veil of illusion, swapping out twilight pathways. That way you have a super buffing character, -1 to wound, -6" range, and 6+++. At that point it is also worth considering giving him the shadowstone to increase those auras to 9". But that will cost an extra 2 CP, so a little steep.

I still think maybe the troupes could lighten on the upgrades. Maybe one with just fusion, and another with just kisses. No sure what to do with those extra pts though, maybe make a couple squads 6 models instead of 5.

I would suggest playing a few games and seeing what works.

Good call, but if i do that, I need a 2d Shadowseer for twilight pathways, but as I said above, do i really need him when I could have another 5 man Troupe unit in a Starweaver?

I prefer to mix weapons in squads because if so, they can do everything, a squad with only fusion pistols will be useless in CC, and I prefer to keep the squads to 5 models because of the blast rule

I can swap the 2d Shadowseer and the 2d Death Jester for an additional 5 man trooper + Starweaver though.

More bodies are always better.
But then you need a 2nd HQ for your battalion.

 wuestenfux wrote:

I can swap the 2d Shadowseer and the 2d Death Jester for an additional 5 man trooper + Starweaver though.

More bodies are always better.
But then you need a 2nd HQ for your battalion.

I already have a 2d HQ : The Troop Master, who's here since the beggining lol

 -Ekko- wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

I can swap the 2d Shadowseer and the 2d Death Jester for an additional 5 man trooper + Starweaver though.

More bodies are always better.
But then you need a 2nd HQ for your battalion.

I already have a 2d HQ : The Troop Master, who's here from the beggining lol

Sorry, now I see her.
But as I said, another gunboat would be useful.

I think so too, I will try this list on Saturday against a Daemon player.

We've got a player in our group who's running about the same list, and has gone 5 for 5 since 9th edition.
He's been running Frozen Stars, though I since the list is in a class of its own, it really wouldn't matter what he runs.

He does run 4 star weavers, and from what I've seen 2 x 6 sky weavers is more than anyone can handle.

I have tested Twilight's Grasp on a Troupe Master with Twilight Fang in a tournament last weekend.

It was disgusting. Starting turn 3 the TM was outperforming the Solitaire.

5 attacks base + 3 for the turn number because of the sword at -3 AP D2 and with Twlight's Grasp wounds everything except monsters and vehicules on unmodified 2+

You will wreck Bikes, Aggressors. Yesterday at a tournament, the TM ate a whole squad of 5 intercessor in one charge and right after went through a DW watch master like butter before moving on to techmarines.

With the general increase in toughness we are seeing across marines, wounding everything on a 2+ is more valuable in my eyes than re-rolling a charge. We are fast enough to get roughly wherever we want to have a decent charge.

Also Shards of Light is always good for stacking MW and lowering LD. Couple that with Cegorach's Lament and the Grenade Launcher and you can easily put 3D3 MW on a single squad.