Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok I don't play orks, but i do like their comedy value and they certainly can make an interesting enemy.

On another thread about armies you wouldn't play i and several other people listed orks and a common reason was "Too many ing models to paint!"

I then thought i might possibly play an ork army if i could build a high octane one with relatively few models, a more quality than quantity army. (With apologies to joseph stalin.)

I'm familiar with orks generally, I know they have relatively high cost models and units, mega armored nobz, deff dreads, shokka jumpa dragstas, etc. I'm curious if ork players could point out how to build a legal ork army based on a relatively low number of models that could be competitive.

Ok, here's mine, *does not promise an effective army*

Ghazakull, deffkillar wartrike, 3 10 man squads of boyz, 1 3 man nobz on warbikes squad, 1 5 man tankbuster squad, 3 megatrakkscrapjets, 1 Battlewagon, a gorkoaught and a morkonaught.

2000 points of Orks with only 46 models. I've played Marine armies with more models.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok I don't play orks, but i do like their comedy value and they certainly can make an interesting enemy.

On another thread about armies you wouldn;t lay i and several other people listed orks and a common reason was "Too many ing models to paint!"

I then thought i might possibly play an ork army if i could build a high octane one with relatively few models, a more quality than quantity army. (With apologies to joseph stalin.)

I'm familiar with orks generally, I know they have relatively high cost models and units, mega armored nobz, deff dreads, shokka jumpa dragstas, etc. I'm curious if ork players could point out how to build a legal ork army based on a relatively low number of models that could be competitive.

Some players are actually finding success with a list that leans hard into buggies without a single troop choice in sight.

https://www.40kstats.com/adelaidegt

First place list.

https://www.40kstats.com/invasiongt

Fourth place list.

Wow, that was fast. I love the service around here!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
Ok, here's mine, *does not promise an effective army*

Ghazakull, deffkillar wartrike, 3 10 man squads of boyz, 1 3 man nobz on warbikes squad, 1 5 man tankbuster squad, 3 megatrakkscrapjets, 1 Battlewagon, a gorkoaught and a morkonaught.

2000 points of Orks with only 46 models. I've played Marine armies with more models.

Have you actually used this? If so what were the results?

Ork buggy spam is strong, and you can field like... 20 models?

Always found it odd that people seem to prefer scrapjets but take them as Deffskulls. You'd think that the Dragstas would be custom made for the blue boyz, where i'd say the Freebootaz would be a better fit for the Scrapjets, what with the weight of fire and all. (And you could easily model them like little battleships)

tulun wrote:
Ork buggy spam is strong, and you can field like... 20 models?

Hmm, ork buggy army vs like a white scars mobile force or a ravenwing army could be interesting. Make a mad max movie look pretty tame by comparison. Especially if they add in some of the space marine gocarts coming out.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Wow, that was fast. I love the service around here!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
Ok, here's mine, *does not promise an effective army*

Ghazakull, deffkillar wartrike, 3 10 man squads of boyz, 1 3 man nobz on warbikes squad, 1 5 man tankbuster squad, 3 megatrakkscrapjets, 1 Battlewagon, a gorkoaught and a morkonaught.

2000 points of Orks with only 46 models. I've played Marine armies with more models.

Have you actually used this? If so what were the results?

nope, this was just my futzing about with list building to see how small I could get a list. as I said I didn't promise this would be all that effective,

 Matt Swain wrote:
Ok I don't play orks, but i do like their comedy value and they certainly can make an interesting enemy.

On another thread about armies you wouldn't play i and several other people listed orks and a common reason was "Too many ing models to paint!"

I then thought i might possibly play an ork army if i could build a high octane one with relatively few models, a more quality than quantity army. (With apologies to joseph stalin.)

I'm familiar with orks generally, I know they have relatively high cost models and units, mega armored nobz, deff dreads, shokka jumpa dragstas, etc. I'm curious if ork players could point out how to build a legal ork army based on a relatively low number of models that could be competitive.

Its going to be hard to get away from at least some high model units to stay legal and competitive. They - at present - only have two troop units both of which pretty much require some hefty squad sizes to be effective, and without Troops you're missing out on ObSec.

Some of your biggest Points Per Model purchases aren't exactly good. Some of your best still-high Points Per Model purchases will still climb up some squad sizes compared to others.

Additionally many of them just haven't kept up with the Joneses. Nobs on Warbikes would be a lot of fun to play, but when you contrast them with SM Bikes, or especilly Outriders they're a little underpowered. The SM Bike gets to always Rapid Fire, so they're firing 4 times all the time with a better BS, while your dude is going to be firing 6 times with half the BS and a shorter range.

You're going to be down 1W, 1 Armor Save (which isn't necessarily a BAD thing) down 1-7A Depending on who charges) on the first round and up 2 on the second round (total out of a unit of 3 on 3) for about 75% of the points. Now this isn't zero sum the Outriders could be too good for their points, the Nobs might not be good enough, or they could both be right in a "proper" (as GW envisions it) list. Your FA bikers are going to be closer to the Firstborn Marine bikers. At the same time, they're in FA which I'm given to understand is a more contested slot having more good units, and only 3 openings instead of 6 in Elites.

You could run a lot of Meganobz in Battlewagons or Trukks. it would make a decent but slow-acting hammer but you'll still need the anvils in blobs of Boyz.

New Codex aren't that far away, I'd hold off and see what happens. I don't think Orks are one of the first ones which is probably good news once you get past having to wait longer. If they buff the bikers a SpeedFreak/Evil Sunz/Biker themed army could be competitive, fun, and fewer painting hours.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One more point to remember, transports and transporting has become more expensive.

Without open-topped, and assault ramp style rules allowing assaulting after disembarking most units you want to transport will lose a turn of opportunity. The game shortening from 6+ turns to 5 makes each turn relatively more important.

In theory a going first transport moves 10”, disembark/deploy 3 away can put you on an unsecured objective not costing you a turn, but that’s one of the few scenarios we here the transport cost isn’t double dipped in points and missed opportunity.

Yes, it's possible to play orks (semicompetitively at least) without a high model count. However I strongly recommend not to go focus all your money budget to create a full skew list with tons of the same specialist/vehicle unit, like multiple meganobz squads or loads of buggies, because if GW nerfs one unit it may nerf your entire collection of models, probably making the army completely unplayable.

Ork can do fairly well by just bringing a pile of vehicles, thanks to all the kustom jobs from PA. The big stars here are clearly the scrapjet and the shokkjump dragsta, but the kustom boosta-blasta is not lagging far behind.
Battlewagons or bonebreakas with the forktress kustom job can transport your MANz, a single gunwagon with the da boomer kustom job is a reliable objective camper and long-range artillery.
Deff dreads can either march up the field, sit on objectives or be tellyported in.
Even a morkanaut with sparkly bits is an option since it has some pretty mean shooting but has issue surviving in metas that are used to taking out knights.
Then you have koptas which are decent at taking unprotected objectives out of nowhere, and mek guns (smashas/KMK) which can destroy anything if you have enough of them.
Warbikers and Nobz are pretty meh right now, but we also have seen both run along these kind of lists successfully.
For HQs we will be getting the biker boss back soon, but the wartrike, MA big mek and Thrakka all do a decent job in these lists.

So, as you can see, there is plenty of stuff to build that insane mad max army from, and it actually does surprisingly well if you take some time to learn and tweak it.
Whether you want to go troopless or not is very much a matter of taste - you can either pay 3CP for an outrider, 150 for 3 units of gretchin tax or you bring trukk boyz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
Always found it odd that people seem to prefer scrapjets but take them as Deffskulls. You'd think that the Dragstas would be custom made for the blue boyz, where i'd say the Freebootaz would be a better fit for the Scrapjets, what with the weight of fire and all. (And you could easily model them like little battleships)

The issue with freebootas is that you need to kill a unit to trigger the bonus. Even a scrapjet with its higher volume of fire isn't unlikely miss its 2d3 rokkits, and against armies like marines, wiping out a unit through shooting is not a trivial task. The freeboota bonus also doesn't stack with the wing missile, while deff skulls do, for a 75% hit chance against vehicles.
In the end the reliability of having guaranteed re-rolls per scrapjet and the 6++ save win out over the potentially more powerful bonus that you might not be able to activate when it matters.

Orks have for as long as I have been playing (since late 4th) an army where you need to pick mostly choose all vehicle or all infantry thus invalidating part of your opponent's take all comers list. buggy and battlewagons spam is strong. I still advise bringing one blob of boyz and setting them up in a teleporter. so 30 boyz + vehicles. a few grot squads to sit behind los terrain to hopefully be untargetable and just hold things.

Two Stompas

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Orks have for as long as I have been playing (since late 4th) an army where you need to pick mostly choose all vehicle or all infantry thus invalidating part of your opponent's take all comers list. buggy and battlewagons spam is strong. I still advise bringing one blob of boyz and setting them up in a teleporter. so 30 boyz + vehicles. a few grot squads to sit behind los terrain to hopefully be untargetable and just hold things.

Yeah, an all vehicle army can be powerful but not always flexible. You need a few infantry units to take objective or complete tasks like raise the banner or tap communications.

Ork Vehicles are pretty good right now. Expensive / low model count units I've enjoyed so far this edition:

Flashgitz - plus the models are sweet. All mine are konverted, I plan to get me a box of official gitz at some point though.
Shokkjump Dragstas - I've had fun running these as evil suns, as they can advance & shoot without penalty, so with the gyroscopic whirlygig they can jump all over the board at full 3+ BS (plus the token rokkit at 5+)
Deff Dreads - early in this edition I tried deff dreads with kustom mega blastas. They did suprisingly well, and if they get a potshot at a character, the character tends to die. Currently konverting 3 dreads to have 3KMB and 1 saw, for versatility.
Morkanaughts are expensive and fairly good.
Ork Fliers are fun, the Wazbomm is good for covering fast units with KFF.

Nothing but Gunwagons. I want my Ork armored division, damnit!

 Jidmah wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
Always found it odd that people seem to prefer scrapjets but take them as Deffskulls. You'd think that the Dragstas would be custom made for the blue boyz, where i'd say the Freebootaz would be a better fit for the Scrapjets, what with the weight of fire and all. (And you could easily model them like little battleships)

The issue with freebootas is that you need to kill a unit to trigger the bonus. Even a scrapjet with its higher volume of fire isn't unlikely miss its 2d3 rokkits, and against armies like marines, wiping out a unit through shooting is not a trivial task. The freeboota bonus also doesn't stack with the wing missile, while deff skulls do, for a 75% hit chance against vehicles.
In the end the reliability of having guaranteed re-rolls per scrapjet and the 6++ save win out over the potentially more powerful bonus that you might not be able to activate when it matters.

Curiously the only factions I've had issues with triggering the freebootas trait on any given turn is, well obviously imperial knights. Even marines usually had some squishy units last edition, scouts or thunderfire cannons were easy pickings. Either with anti infantry fire or with dragstas which tend to be a staple in my lists at least. (As fun as it is to hit with dragstas on a 2+ it's more handy to use them to pass on the trait to others.) Or just, you know smasha gunz.

Sure, I have no doubt that you will eventually trigger it, but due to the MSU nature of buggies you probably have shot a good portion of your army by then. Deff skulls re-rolls on every SJD, scrapjet, KBB and whatever you are using to support them just beats having +1 to hit after already having shot a good portion of your army.

Mind you the difference is not a huge gulf, so freeboota buggies are definitely a valid choice, just not the best one.

You can bring low model ork lists and they do alright. Every once in a while I'll bring Mork and Gork nauts for fun and they eat up about 300 points each.

The buggies list is doing very well right now but I'd be cautious about spending $$$ on 9 of them as our Codex for 9th isn't out (wont be for some time most likely) and the last thing you want is 9 buggies you'll never end up playing because of a rules shift.

Buy what you want based on how you like the model.

Too many to paint, when there is contrast out there, hmmm...

Keramory wrote:
The buggies list is doing very well right now but I'd be cautious about spending $$$ on 9 of them as our Codex for 9th isn't out (wont be for some time most likely) and the last thing you want is 9 buggies you'll never end up playing because of a rules shift.

Buy what you want based on how you like the model.

The good thing is that those buggies are pretty much all really good looking.

 godardc wrote:
Too many to paint, when there is contrast out there, hmmm...

Contrast doesn't paint itself. I love Contrast, and I can paint a lot faster. I basically Airbrush Prime, and Basecoat, stick brush Wraithbone or Grey Seer if I even need to on some details, then pick them out with contrast when contrast works for the color I'm painting, and it is a lot faster. I can't rattlecan to save my life so airbrush priming may save me as much time as the contrast. I havent obliterated the details so bad drybrushing and washing still work easy and well. But it's still a time spent. If you're lucky you can look at it as a time invested not a time wasted. I've got a Nid army to get painted when I get time and paints. Need to figure out the scheme, and get the right contrasts.

Keramory wrote:
You can bring low model ork lists and they do alright. Every once in a while I'll bring Mork and Gork nauts for fun and they eat up about 300 points each.

The buggies list is doing very well right now but I'd be cautious about spending $$$ on 9 of them as our Codex for 9th isn't out (wont be for some time most likely) and the last thing you want is 9 buggies you'll never end up playing because of a rules shift.

Buy what you want based on how you like the model.

The buggies work well enough in singles and doubles, so you don't need to go all-in on SJD or scrapjets to play the list. Pretty much any semi-durable multi-wound model orks have fit well with buggies, so you have a large number of options to chose from if you just want a nice looking vehicle army.