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So, if I get this right, ninth has as a reinforcement / redeployment anything that is not 1) set up on the board or 2) in a transport that was INITIALLY set up on the board.

So if you bring in a transport (e.g. drop pod) it was not initially on the board, that unit debarking from it, can you shoot it as it steps out?
Same question to a valkyrie, the only other transport I know of that can show up from strategic reserves and grav-chut drop out the troops in it, allowing them to arrive and be instantly in auspex range (under 12 inches).
1. Am I reading this wrong? and
2. If you have a turn where the valkyrie sits on the board (or a chimera, that came in from off board, or a rhino, whatever!) with the unit sitting in it still, is that unit still reinforcement when initially set up on the board, as it did not come out of a transport that STARTED on the board, and thus eligible for supressing fire from auspex scan (or "superior intelligence", if scions), or any other "use this when someone has a unit arrive on the battlefield within 12 inch type strat?

I get that da jump is (unwisely) suddenly made vulnerable to this crap, and I cry for the maligned ork players who really didn't need another marine chance to shoot them before they get stuck in, but does this mean I can also kill arriving drop pod marines with my scions? ?

Pg. 366 of the BRB says that a reinforcement unit is :

Any unit that starts the battle in a location other than on the battlefield, and is not embarked within a transport unit that does start the battle on the battlefield, is considered to be reinforcement unit.

Thus, a transport that doesnt start the battle on the battlefield, is reinforcements. Same is true for the embarked unit inside.

Yes, you can use auspex scan, or similar, on a disembarking unit from a transport that is reinforcements. And yes, you can use auspex scan (or similar) on a da jumped unit, because pg. 363 (repositioned and replacement units) says you can.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
I get that da jump is (unwisely) suddenly made vulnerable to this crap, and I cry for the maligned ork players who really didn't need another marine chance to shoot them before they get stuck in

You're correct on everything else but this. Da Jump takes a unit that was already on the battlefield and sets it back up somewhere else. That unit came from the battlefield, therefore isn't coming from reinforcements, per the quote p5freak gave.

 Super Ready wrote:

Dukeofstuff wrote:
I get that da jump is (unwisely) suddenly made vulnerable to this crap, and I cry for the maligned ork players who really didn't need another marine chance to shoot them before they get stuck in

You're correct on everything else but this. Da Jump takes a unit that was already on the battlefield and sets it back up somewhere else. That unit came from the battlefield, therefore isn't coming from reinforcements, per the quote p5freak gave.

Did you read pg. 363 repositioned and replacement units ? You can use auspex scan (or similar) on a da jumped (or similar) unit.

That's sort of hard to wrap my head around.
So to be VERY CLEAR.
0. Anything teleporting and being set up again can be shot with auspex scan/superior intelligence or whatever.
1. Anything leaving a drop pod can be shot with auspex scan / superior intelligence / whatever, as that is by definition reinforcements from a non-started on the field transport.
2. Anything deepstriking in or entering by strategic reserves gets auspexed as well, as its coming in to be set up(1) and that suffices by itself, but its ALSO a unit that did not start on the board so it will
3. ALSO be vulnerable if it ever gets into a transport that started off board and then gets back out again, as it now fullfilled the letter of the law about "a unit that did not start on the board AND was in a transport that did not start...".

So a deepstrike terminator team comes in, bam, auspex scan, and in a panic the marine player puts them in his landraider that he just got up the field with strategic reserves. They are saved! But then they step out again ... do they get auspex scanned a SECOND time (condition 3, a non started unit in a non started transport) by the same unit of eradicators the next turn when they get out again?

God save them if their owner then says "well, they is grey knights terminators, and I am going to teleport them on turn 4 right beside your custodes supertank..."

I may have to consider changing my scions loadout a bit over this, I dislike being auspexed and it makes the tactic of using smaller and smaller units (you can only swat one with auspex scan per deepstrike wave) make sense. Sure, its more efficient to put 10 men in front, but not if you get auspexed by a line of aggressors. Then you are just feeding your foe your most expensive single unit of deepstrikers, or you are pushed out of range.

4. A valkyrie or any other transport that STARTS on the board is immune to auspex scan for its cargo the entire game. So it makes sense to start at lesast most of your transports that way -- even if your longfangs rhino can start in strategic cause at 40+ inches of lascannon range, it won't matter.

 p5freak wrote:
Did you read pg. 363 repositioned and replacement units ? You can use auspex scan (or similar) on a da jumped (or similar) unit.

Ooh, whoops, no I did not catch that! Thanks for the correction.

Dukeofstuff wrote:


That's sort of hard to wrap my head around.
So to be VERY CLEAR
.
.
.

Yes to all.

Wait, really?

So if I were to tellyport a battlewagon, it gets auspexed.
Next turn, I disembark, and get auspexed?

The issue, really, is that you only need to start the battle as reinforcements for that status to stick. You don't ever lose that reinforcement status.

This is something I would hope is FAQed, perhaps something along the lines of "any rules whose effects are caused by the appearance of a reinforcement unit, can only take effect if the unit in question is being set up on the battlefield for the first time".

 some bloke wrote:
Wait, really?

So if I were to tellyport a battlewagon, it gets auspexed.
Next turn, I disembark, and get auspexed?

Yes, and yes. GW rules are great, arent they ?

 Super Ready wrote:
This is something I would hope is FAQed, perhaps something along the lines of "any rules whose effects are caused by the appearance of a reinforcement unit, can only take effect if the unit in question is being set up on the battlefield for the first time".

Maybe if they clarifiy that a unit is only reinforcements for the turn in which it enters play? That way people can still auspex scan drop pod marines (and I guess something like scion para troops) but not guardsmen climbing out of their chimera two turns later.