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if he has game changing rules then he is worth it. Kind of a hard to judge without seeing his full rules.

Karol wrote:
if he has game changing rules then he is worth it. Kind of a hard to judge without seeing his full rules.

I really don't get this.

If GW makes a small model of a turd, charges you £50 for it, but it's a toughness 24 turd, with a 2 up Inv save that has 16 Str 10, AP-5 shots, costs 50pts and can be included with any army without breaking doctrine, is that worth £50 because it has game changing rules?

How much are the 'rules' a transatory, thing that is entirely a subjective matter of perspective and can Literally be changed at any time worth in $?

Well, I'll definitely buy it from the modeling and painting point of view,
but I don't plan to field it in an army.

yes, GW makes a ton of ugly models and if they are powerful they are being bought en mass.

Before the sm codex 2.0 I didn't even know centurions existed. yet when they could deploy 9" away from opposing army, I saw tons of them.

Stuff like obliterators, old models in finecast, often ugly and not very enticing to buy. But when it has a powerful rule people buy it.

If the new faction terrains end up being really good and essential to playing people are going to be buying them.

And my expiriance in 8th, tought me that it is always better to buy an army with a ton of good units and good rules, because even if nerfed the army often still stays at the good level. And worse thing is the bad rule armies do not cost that much, or even at all, less then the good ones.


So the money does translate to having fun. There is nothing fun in having an army, which you put out of the box to put it in to the box back again. Unless you really like painting. And I don't like painting, never painted a model in my life, and I doubt I ever will.


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 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'll definitely buy it from the modeling and painting point of view,
but I don't plan to field it in an army.

What if it is like nagash, bloodthirsters or any of the big kits in AoS? those armies practicaly start being build with, take two high cost more or less obligatory models, out of which one is a terrain pice and another a big model.

If he has something like use the necron doctrine twice, or pick each phases doctrin in the turn you want and not in advance, people are going to use him.

It is like Draigo or Voldus for GK, you could run a normal Librarian or GM, but why do it when those two cost not a lot more in points, and have much better rules.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
I personally would rather have the $150 so I can spend it on second hand GW stuff and get twice as many models.

or a full army with 3rd party models

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
How would you propose we quantify the amount of the gap in price between a Games Workshop Chaplain on Bike model and a Whizzbanger Miniatures Space Knight War Priest on Space Big Wheel?

1: 1

Oh god, you're serious, aren't you.

why not, if you need a fancy Marker for Gaming, going for the cheapest option that will do the job and is acceptable for you
if you want to buy a scale model for pro-painting to put on the shelf in a diorama, it is a different story

problem for the gamers is that GW is selling diorama models which are overpriced if you just want to play with them
I mean people start complaining if the whole army for a different game cost >100$ and call it too expensive to start playing yet, paying 150$ for 1/5 to 1/6 of an army is ok because "GW"

PS: but thanks to GW, Resin 3D printing is now an option for gamers, it would be way too expensive compared to other Wargames, but compared to 40k, buying a printer 500$ and paying 5$ in material cost for standard sized infantry model is now considered "an army on a budget" and "cheap"

 kodos wrote:


PS: but thanks to GW, Resin 3D printing is now an option for gamers, it would be way too expensive compared to other Wargames, but compared to 40k, buying a printer 500$ and paying 5$ in material cost for standard sized infantry model is now considered "an army on a budget" and "cheap"

So this is an....interesting figure that you've just listed right here.

I just bought a resin 3d printer, which was a brand new model for 200$, with a liter of resin that the data I can find online should be approximately enough to print 100-150 28mm miniatures, that was 50$.

Also, worth noting, recently I've bought miniatures for DnD, warhammer, malifaux and infinity for various projects.

That was the order of cheapest to most expensive per 28mm miniature. The Dnd minis were 1/2 as expensive per model but are absolutely of markedly worse quality and material than the GW plastics.

If I could have waved a wand and bought the same dnd miniatures in 'GW resolution' I would have absolutely found it to be worth 2x the price.

Buying a good 3D printer that can produce high-quality detailed minis is still out of reach of most people. That $200 to $500 printer isn't going to do it, though you can use cheap home-use printers for terrain now with no problems, and they can produce miniatures, albeit not at near the detail level of modern GW plastics or resins.

But commercially they are already there, and the price is falling on them every year. Probably within 5 years or so even home 3D printers will be able to come passably close to copying GW miniatures, and sooner or later that's going to cause a major reckoning.

My own pet theory is that it also explains at least to some degree why new GW models have all these difficult-to-produce pieces sticking off them, and part of the reason they've moved to dynamic mono-pose instead of multi-part: both these make it harder to develop STLs that can be used to produce knock-offs indistinguishable at a casual glance from the original.

yukishiro1 wrote:

My own pet theory is that it also explains at least to some degree why new GW models have all these difficult-to-produce pieces sticking off them, and part of the reason they've moved to dynamic mono-pose instead of multi-part: both these make it harder to develop STLs that can be used to produce knock-offs indistinguishable from the original.

Harder but not impossible; and once you've cracked the sculpt design you can just change the end of the arm and the attachment point remains the same shape. Besides that would be just modifying a GW model so you'd be buying a GW model and spending more for more parts; the person casting their own army at home doesn't care what the mount or design of the GW models is

Its a middle class luxury hobby.

At this point there is no objective value that can be attached to something, it just has to meet two criteria

A. Can you afford it?

B. Do you think it is worth it?

Neither of these can be evaluated by someone else.

If you think it is worth it? You buy it. You dont? You dont.

I dont get all of these people who buy things while saying "its not worth the price"

or the people who say "I should be cheaper" No joke, everyone wants everything to be cheaper. they literally have been unable to meet demand at their current prices during a pandemic, economics says they are priced too low.

I had this issue with the Triumph of Saint Katherine. Its $110 for what is essentially the amount of detail of a box of Seraphim on a fancy base.

I ended up getting it because I have no self control and I love the model. On one hand yes, the model is gorgeous, on the other hand it does not have the level of sophistication and detail you would find in some comparable kits like a greater Daemon or the amount of heft you would get from a Land Raider or a Storm Raven.

The model looks like a mash-up of a Chaos HQ performing Marilynn Monroe's version of Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend. I decided to spend $70 less on that big new Wendigo model Warlord Games just spoiled instead.

 Overread wrote:

the person casting their own army at home doesn't care what the mount or design of the GW models is

I think most people do care; they'd rather have models that look like the real ones, both for their own satisfaction and for the ability to use them outside the home. Most tournaments have rules prohibiting the use of non-GW models (or at least requiring 80%+ of the model to be GW), and although enforcement of those rules is pretty spotty at present, that might change as 3D printing becomes a real alternative, if GW decides to try to fight it by leaning on stores and TOs. Stores themselves obviously have a huge amount to lose from 3D printing too, mind you, so they do have a certain incentive to go along with those policies.

It'll be really interesting to see how GW approaches the issue. Historically GW has been very friendly towards conversions, but that's always been when the core of the model is GW and you're just sticking stuff on top that you have made yourself or gotten elsewhere. I can see GW being pretty unbothered by people using 3D printers to print themselves up a whole squad's worth of plasma guns or other bits (there's already a huge trade in these on 3D printing websites), but I can't see them being equally laissez-faire if people start showing up to tournaments with fully 3D-printed armies.

I think the price point is as expected. Is it good value? Well, in terms of points/$, it’s better value than Impulsors and Duneriders by a large margin, I’ll bet.

I will probably get him someday, as I think I can make it look awesome. I get enjoyment from simply seeing my models in my displays, and my friends and family all enjoy looking at them as well.

I mean, he's at the general price point for lord of war models like that.

Whether or not you think he's worth it is another story, but if I was a necron player and I liked his model, I'd probably buy it.

$150 is kind of expensive for a model, but it's a big centerpiece and I'm only going to buy one, so like...

yukishiro1 wrote:
Not a fan of the model either, it's mostly just a normal lord on a hunk of boring plastic with some boring plastic pillars on either side, but I'm sure some people dig it.

When was the last time you were actually a fan of anything GW have done, anyway? All I recall seeing from you, in the recent past, at least, is unrelenting negativity.

the_scotsman wrote:

Also, worth noting, recently I've bought miniatures for DnD, warhammer, malifaux and infinity for various projects.

That was the order of cheapest to most expensive per 28mm miniature. The Dnd minis were 1/2 as expensive per model but are absolutely of markedly worse quality and material than the GW plastics.
If I could have waved a wand and bought the same dnd miniatures in 'GW resolution' I would have absolutely found it to be worth 2x the price.

DnD Models are first of all just markes, you sometimes use them only once and people who are used to paper/card don't really care
those of the local group who never played wargames at all even think it is crazy to pay that much for a model and are not interested in the quality of them at all

the_scotsman wrote:

So this is an....interesting figure that you've just listed right here.

I just bought a resin 3d printer, which was a brand new model for 200$, with a liter of resin that the data I can find online should be approximately enough to print 100-150 28mm miniatures, that was 50$.

for high quality models you need quality equipment
price may vary around but the lower priced ones don't get you that much detail for the small models and cheaper resin is a problem as well (specially for larger models)

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
$150 is kind of expensive for a model, but it's a big centerpiece and I'm only going to buy one, so like...

As an aside, when it comes to centrepiece models, I'd rather make the choice myself of what (if anything) in my army is the centrepiece. Merely buying a centrepiece holds no appeal whatsoever for me.

the_scotsman wrote:

Also, worth noting, recently I've bought miniatures for DnD, warhammer, malifaux and infinity for various projects.

Not really on topic I've been wondering about getting into Malifaux for a while now (specifically Neverborn). As someone whose opinion I've come to respect, I'd welcome your thoughts on the game and its models.

(If you're willing, feel free to PM me so as not to derail this thread.)

 Dysartes wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
Not a fan of the model either, it's mostly just a normal lord on a hunk of boring plastic with some boring plastic pillars on either side, but I'm sure some people dig it.

When was the last time you were actually a fan of anything GW have done, anyway? All I recall seeing from you, in the recent past, at least, is unrelenting negativity.

I commented just a day or two ago on how the changes we had seen to chapter tactics seemed surprisingly sensible. And then in this very thread one of the very first posts is a post by me defending the pricing as reasonable within GW's general pricing structure. If you are going to attack someone personally, at least try to be right?

But I don't know why you're making things personal in the first place. When you start attacking the person rather than the point it's a sure sign you're losing the plot.

Please stick to discussing opinions and topics rather than posters, it's a waste of everyone's time to make things personal.

 vipoid wrote:


I've said it before and I'll say it again - you should not need to give a character an entire diorama in order to convey that he is important and/or powerful.

Those models are also ok for a display cabinet but an absolute nightmare to carry and to play with.

Nightmare to transport sums up Necrons generally, especially the new models. All those little bits just begging to be snapped off.

Its not worth it to {me}.... You??

First if all its way more giant model that I want to carry around. My neurons fit very nicely in 1 case with a bit of room for new stuff. I dont want the army expanding to two cases.
Second, whatever it does,, I'm sure it costs more pts than I want to devote to one model. I'm also sure it won't be as effective as whatever else I could get for those pts.

I don't think it looks like a 150 euro model. It's just a glorified Overlord on a giant throne, I feel I'm paying for a piece of terrain plus 3 small models.
I'm pretty sure it's going to be good, GW wants to sell it's expensive stuff.

Anyone know what the uk price is?

mrFickle wrote:
Anyone know what the uk price is?

I think its the £90 bracket. £90/€120/$150

The colossal/gargantuan models from PP are slightly cheaper (many $105 but a few are $135~$155 rrp), slightly bigger in terms of pure size/plastic, but not sure about the quality being as good. I haven't really seen enough of them in person or even on video.

I've got a Storm Raptor (rrp $110) which is a nice plastic model https://store.privateerpress.com/storm-raptor but I'm not sure its quite as detailed/high quality as GW?

I've got the old version of the Judicator (rrp $110 for the new version) which was a less nice mixed metal and resin (I think, or a wierd plastic) and there was a lot of flash to clean off and the metal and resin didn't fit snuggly in a few areas. https://store.privateerpress.com/judicator-revelator-protectorate-of-menoth-colossal-warjack

I do think $120 is the going rate for this kind of model and maybe $150 is GW seeing if they can slap $30 extra profit on top. I also think Teclis/Silent King aren't the best models to try this on as they are both a bit odd looking. While to me Morathi looks "ok" at $138.

EightFoldPath wrote:
The colossal/gargantuan models from PP are slightly cheaper (many $105 but a few are $135~$155 rrp), slightly bigger in terms of pure size/plastic, but not sure about the quality being as good. I haven't really seen enough of them in person or even on video.

I've got a Storm Raptor (rrp $110) which is a nice plastic model https://store.privateerpress.com/storm-raptor but I'm not sure its quite as detailed/high quality as GW?

I've got the old version of the Judicator (rrp $110 for the new version) which was a less nice mixed metal and resin (I think, or a wierd plastic) and there was a lot of flash to clean off and the metal and resin didn't fit snuggly in a few areas. https://store.privateerpress.com/judicator-revelator-protectorate-of-menoth-colossal-warjack

I do think $120 is the going rate for this kind of model and maybe $150 is GW seeing if they can slap $30 extra profit on top. I also think Teclis/Silent King aren't the best models to try this on as they are both a bit odd looking. While to me Morathi looks "ok" at $138.

The bird is apparently £109 rrp in the UK, the Silent King is £95 rrp. Just a point of interest, privateer press is always more expensive over here.

That kind of money will get you a Perfect-Grade Gundam kit. A figure about a foot tall, which has an internal articulated skeleton and can be posed right down to individual finger joints. It comes with an LED lighting kit, comes in multiple-coloured sprues and is snap-fit. You don't need to glue or paint the model if you don't want to.

For less than that, you can get a sharp, detailed kit of a Tiger I tank, historically accurate with interiors down to the gearstick. Ryefield is a good 1/35 example.

Or a HUGE, detailed ship model.

On the other hand, a model like the Silent King will give you a lot of pleasure. You'll spend weeks assembling and painting it, a hobby in itself. As a gaming piece, I prefer pieces that are a little more... robust.

So it's really for the individual to decide. You may be very happy with your purchase.

From GW, I would consider something in that price range £100-150) for something like a fully articulated plastic Warhound Titan

the_scotsman wrote:
How would you propose we quantify the amount of the gap in price between a Games Workshop Chaplain on Bike model and a Whizzbanger Miniatures Space Knight War Priest on Space Big Wheel?

How much of that price undercut is Very Bad Unfair Games Workshop Markup and how much is the fact that coincidentally Whizzbanger Miniatures seems to have found a strange market niche where they barely have to advertise that product at all, and people just seem to be coincidentally extremely interested in their innovative line of Space Knight products?

This logic is.... illogical. If SM are so popular that they can be sold this cheap by Whizzbanger, they are so popular that they can be sold that cheap by GW. On top of that, third party games show models for extremely unpopular ranges, like say Dark Eldar, at the same price point. On top of that, SM being popular or advertised doesn’t advertise for a third party site or make anyone think “huh, I wonder if there’s a site called Whizzbanger that I’m just gonna type in now for cheaper alternatives”, they wouldn’t even know about them. They need to do their own advertising.

You’ve completely moved the goalposts. Your original argument was unmistakably the cost of design justifies these prices. Looking at the design of some minis like ArtelW who are often even more detailed than GW, that’s clearly not the case at all.


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Also, can’t wait to see the Australian price for this lol

The only $150 models I'm looking at these days are Shadowswords. I don't even have an army for one (three). I just think they're super cool.

For 'Crons the Tesseract is pretty neat, but something about the detailing on it I don't like.

No, he means that Whizzbanger minis are riding on the money that GW spends on renting shops, hiring staff, publishing WD, making painting videos, publishing books, and making a game... All of which encourage people to buy something that has no context otherwise. GW created demand from nothing.

Whizzbanger Minis only need to advertise that something is like a GW model, but is different - cheaper, more detailed, made of cheese.

Sculpt and cast a Squonk Battlelord on a Float-Pod firing a Grop Gun, put up a website selling them, and I guarantee you won't sell 20 of them.