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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 06:50:40
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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the_scotsman wrote:
If it helps, talk about Sisters Retributors: We know exactly what their rules are going to be with the release of the new marine dex, their point cost, their power level, and their access to strats and traits and auras and whatever. There's no 'well we dont know what x and y and z are going to cost, well we don't have the full profile with all the special rules'
How do you avoid deep-strikeable 8-shot 24" range suicide melta with the new melta damage rule?
Yeah, we know that but at the moment those retributors are very meh, they need the boost. Adepta Sororitas have Seraphims which can deepstrike and fire 8 melta and 2 plasma shots for 100 points and 1 CP. Lower range than multimelta but they're also way cheaper than retributors (and they don't compete with them in taking precious heavy support slots) and yet no one consider that combo OP.
Retributors with multimelta will be fine, not OP. Maybe Immolators will become viable thanks to the melta boost, which is also a good thing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 07:01:05
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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the_scotsman wrote:If it helps, talk about Sisters Retributors: We know exactly what their rules are going to be with the release of the new marine dex, their point cost, their power level, and their access to strats and traits and auras and whatever. There's no 'well we dont know what x and y and z are going to cost, well we don't have the full profile with all the special rules'
No. We do NOT know for sure point cost. We only know point cost if GW are totally incompetent fools. If they are even amateur game designer level the multi melta will go up when it gets buff. Point values in field manual should reflect abilities NOW. Not what it is in future.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 07:06:48
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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tneva82 wrote:the_scotsman wrote:If it helps, talk about Sisters Retributors: We know exactly what their rules are going to be with the release of the new marine dex, their point cost, their power level, and their access to strats and traits and auras and whatever. There's no 'well we dont know what x and y and z are going to cost, well we don't have the full profile with all the special rules'
No. We do NOT know for sure point cost. We only know point cost if GW are totally incompetent fools. If they are even amateur game designer level the multi melta will go up when it gets buff. Point values in field manual should reflect abilities NOW. Not what it is in future.
Yeah, the multimelta should be around 35 points under the new rules, but I doubt that GW will update the costs.
Though, if the first leaks are to be believed, the thunder hammer cost is being adjusted, so we could see that too for other weapons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 07:19:38
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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a_typical_hero wrote:_Maybe_ anti tank units are becoming so efficient so we have to take less in each list to make room for units to deal with horde armies.
As much as I like to see a good reasoning behind it, I doubt GW does have this kind of foresight to their own rules.
I do wonder what "hordes" that would be?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/01 07:19:49
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 07:20:38
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Hacking Interventor
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Togusa wrote:Kitane wrote:I have no idea what to do with my Nid monsters against this escalation. They will just evaporate when something looks in their direction.
And I don't think the mid-sized 3W 4+ elites will fare much better. They have no answer to the elite-hunting meta either.
I don't understand why they don't give Tyranids a blanket 5+ FNP army wide to represent just how brutal and unforgiving they are. When you read stories about Tyranid assaults, they're always taking massive amounts of damage before going down. And while on the subject, wouldn't it be neat if Tyranids had the opposite affect of other armies, the more wounds their monsters take, the faster and harder hitting they become, like a trapped animal lashing out at its predator?
There's a Hellforged Land Raider (the Achilles) that starts at WS 5+ and BS 3+, and trades those on brackets as it loses wounds, and that's pretty close to that.
Maybe leave the Weapon Skill at 4+ not affected by brackets; it loses ballistic skill as it becomes blinded by rage, but increases in Attacks and Move as it frenzies.
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"All you 40k people out there have managed to more or less do something that I did some time ago, and some of my friends did before me, and some of their friends did before them: When you saw the water getting gakky, you decided to, well, get out of the pool, rather than say 'I guess this is water now.'"
-Tex Talks Battletech on GW |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 07:47:00
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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Spoletta wrote:
Yeah, the multimelta should be around 35 points under the new rules, but I doubt that GW will update the costs.
Though, if the first leaks are to be believed, the thunder hammer cost is being adjusted, so we could see that too for other weapons.
A lascannon is 15 and nobody says it's overpowered/undercosted. Aren't two lascannons comparable if not better than a single multi-melta? +1S, twice the range, split fire but +1AP and no melta bonus. Sounds like there is no competition to me.
I'd price a new multimelta 20 points for infantry and 25 for vehicles. Oh wait, it's exactly how they are priced now! The current multimelta does definitely not worth 20/25 points.
Again it's not the profile that screams OP, it's the layer or rules and bonuses upon it. Multimelta's buff on sisters doesn't look horrible, I think they actually need it. On SM though? There has to be some compensation to balance their codex indeed and we have already seen a few nerfs for the poster guys.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 07:52:32
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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Well, the answer to units that can destroy tanks with ease is bringing many MSU units to the battle field.
Then the high damage weapons will be largely wasted.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 08:26:42
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Fixture of Dakka
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wuestenfux wrote:Well, the answer to units that can destroy tanks with ease is bringing many MSU units to the battle field.
Then the high damage weapons will be largely wasted.
That's fine. I don't mind overkilling things.  If I could arm every model in a squad with a melta, guess what I'd do?
You see waste, I see near assured destruction of target.....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 08:39:33
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Blackie wrote:Spoletta wrote: Yeah, the multimelta should be around 35 points under the new rules, but I doubt that GW will update the costs. Though, if the first leaks are to be believed, the thunder hammer cost is being adjusted, so we could see that too for other weapons. A lascannon is 15 and nobody says it's overpowered/undercosted. Aren't two lascannons comparable if not better than a single multi-melta? +1S, twice the range, split fire but +1AP and no melta bonus. Sounds like there is no competition to me. I'd price a new multimelta 20 points for infantry and 25 for vehicles. Oh wait, it's exactly how they are priced now! The current multimelta does definitely not worth 20/25 points. Again it's not the profile that screams OP, it's the layer or rules and bonuses upon it. Multimelta's buff on sisters doesn't look horrible, I think they actually need it. On SM though? There has to be some compensation to balance their codex indeed and we have already seen a few nerfs for the poster guys. A lascannon is 20 points ( SM - Vehicle). A multimelta is indeed slightly worse than a twin-lascannon, so 35 points ( SM- Vehicle) is its correct point level. 25 could be fine SM-Infantry, even if a bit cheap. I would prefer 30 though because infantry is more likely to enter melta range, so a multimelta and a lascannon shots become equal.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/01 08:40:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 08:44:55
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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ccs wrote: wuestenfux wrote:Well, the answer to units that can destroy tanks with ease is bringing many MSU units to the battle field.
Then the high damage weapons will be largely wasted.
That's fine. I don't mind overkilling things.  If I could arm every model in a squad with a melta, guess what I'd do?
You see waste, I see near assured destruction of target.....
except from a points POV melta's are a horriably inefficant weapon. if you're taking a melta and I'm taking heavy bolters and we each run infantry heavy lists, I'm proably gonna win
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 08:45:14
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Blackie wrote:A lascannon is 15 and nobody says it's overpowered/undercosted. Aren't two lascannons comparable if not better than a single multi-melta? +1S, twice the range, split fire but +1AP and no melta bonus. Sounds like there is no competition to me.
I think on current rules, two lascannons is superior to an MM solely when shooting a Knight (T8, 5++) at greater than 12" range (or whatever you can buff it too). In half range the MM is still expected to do 17% more damage.
Against T7/3+, the MM does 88% more damage than two lascannons when in half range. I.E an MM's expected damage output in 12" isn't too far off 4 lascannons versus these targets. Which feels a bit crazy good.
The solution seems fairly obvious - a major increase in vehicle wounds. But quite why GW has started this arms race is unclear.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 08:47:14
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Waaagh! Ork Warboss
Italy
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It isn't very different than the current points costs though.
Multi melta is 20 for infantries and 25 for vehicles which looks appropriate for the new profile. It's probably some of the platforms that are too cheap.
Twin Multimelta is 50 points, which also sound fair and quite expensive.
An Immolator with twin multimelta and heavy bolter is 145 points and doesn't look underpriced/overpowered at all, assuming it doesn't change its points cost and its multimeltas get the new profile. At the moment that vehicle is close to trash.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyel wrote:
Against T7/3+, the MM does 88% more damage than two lascannons when in half range. I.E an MM's expected damage output in 12" isn't too far off 4 lascannons versus these targets. Which feels a bit crazy good.
Firing from 48'' instead of 12'' is a huge bonus though. No need to start in reserve to get closer and no suicide unit role. A multimelta unit can't even fire most of the times in turn 1 if it starts on the board, unless maybe towards some expendable enemy unit.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/01 08:50:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 08:54:50
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The problem seems to stem from GW updating the MFM 2020 with the points costs for weapons from the codex's while guess what no-one is getting their new weapons.
All I can say is this basically confirms playing any xeno codex is pretty much a waste of time, they're paying points for stats they don't have great work GW.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 09:01:40
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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alextroy wrote:Reminds me of when the MFM points were first revealed:
Multimeltas are more expensive than Lascannons. Has GW lost their minds? Lascannons are so much better.
Now it is:
Multimeltas are so deadly. Has GW lost their minds? They need to go up in points.
They literally doubled MM's damage output. So, yeah, before they revealed that, the rules change looked like a strange hard nerf, when they revealed it, it looked like it isn't enough. But mostly because marines marry meltas with just an unreasonable amount of buffs and delivery options.
alextroy wrote:Reminds me of when the MFM points were first revealed:
Multimeltas are more expensive than Lascannons. Has GW lost their minds? Lascannons are so much better.
Now it is:
Multimeltas are so deadly. Has GW lost their minds? They need to go up in points.
They literally doubled MM's damage output. So, yeah, before they revealed that, the rules change looked like a strange hard nerf, when they revealed it, it looked like it isn't enough. But mostly because marines marry meltas with just an unreasonable amount of buffs and delivery options.
Cynista wrote:Necrons were one of the most underpowered factions in the game and everything we've seen so far merely brings them into parity with the median. Oh and the new Heavy Destroyer is pants - unless it becomes much cheaper.
As far as Marines go, well they've been broken for a year now so what else is new
They're looking quite a bit better than median. whether this will persists (and it usually doesn't for the first few books out in an edition) is to be seen, but Necrons are getting the changes that no one other than marines are for the shape of the game into the future, and are flat better at putting damage out than anyone but marines and maybe sisters who are piggybacking off marines and this is going to create a big divide between new edition codexes and old edition codexes.
BrianDavion wrote:onto the original topic, GW I think mostly wants 40k to be infantry focused, with tanks being an occasional supporting unit. things like core rules enchouraging the use of infantry, while ensuring devestator squads and their equivilants have the tools to deal with tanks. IMHO the most valuable tanks will be the ones that play a role no infantry unit can reasonably duplicate, the Lemen russ will remain a staple of guard lists. but you'll likely not see a ton of tanks in marine lists. (and I suspect those we do see may end up as mostly distraction carnifexes)
\\
This does bother me somewhat because, per fluff, marines should really be moving around mechanized (or doing a drop pod assault, but that's not coming back) and hyper mobile and it's a bummer if every marine list is gonna ditch all the tools that makes them work like how they should.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 11:42:11
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Blackie wrote:the_scotsman wrote:
If it helps, talk about Sisters Retributors: We know exactly what their rules are going to be with the release of the new marine dex, their point cost, their power level, and their access to strats and traits and auras and whatever. There's no 'well we dont know what x and y and z are going to cost, well we don't have the full profile with all the special rules'
How do you avoid deep-strikeable 8-shot 24" range suicide melta with the new melta damage rule?
Yeah, we know that but at the moment those retributors are very meh, they need the boost. Adepta Sororitas have Seraphims which can deepstrike and fire 8 melta and 2 plasma shots for 100 points and 1 CP. Lower range than multimelta but they're also way cheaper than retributors (and they don't compete with them in taking precious heavy support slots) and yet no one consider that combo OP.
Retributors with multimelta will be fine, not OP. Maybe Immolators will become viable thanks to the melta boost, which is also a good thing.
Um.
How? IIRC you can only get 4 inferno pistols in a unit, and once you have 4 inferno pistols and 2 plasma pistols you're at over 100pts...
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 11:50:09
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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the_scotsman wrote:
Um.
How? IIRC you can only get 4 inferno pistols in a unit, and once you have 4 inferno pistols and 2 plasma pistols you're at over 100pts...
You can have a 5 woman squad with 2x2 Inferno pistols and 1 plasma pistol on the Sister Superior for 100.
You then spend one CP to shoot when they land from DS, so you end up with 8 fusion shots and 2 plasma shots in a round.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/01 11:50:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 11:52:25
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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dhallnet wrote:the_scotsman wrote:
Um.
How? IIRC you can only get 4 inferno pistols in a unit, and once you have 4 inferno pistols and 2 plasma pistols you're at over 100pts...
You can have a 5 woman squad with 2x2 Inferno pistols and 1 plasma pistol on the Sister Superior for 100.
You then spend one CP to shoot when they land from DS, so you end up with 8 fusion shots and 2 plasma shots in a round.
I think the part where you're confused here is 2x2 = 8?
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 11:54:32
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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the_scotsman wrote:dhallnet wrote:the_scotsman wrote:
Um.
How? IIRC you can only get 4 inferno pistols in a unit, and once you have 4 inferno pistols and 2 plasma pistols you're at over 100pts...
You can have a 5 woman squad with 2x2 Inferno pistols and 1 plasma pistol on the Sister Superior for 100.
You then spend one CP to shoot when they land from DS, so you end up with 8 fusion shots and 2 plasma shots in a round.
I think the part where you're confused here is 2x2 = 8?
I think you missed the part where it's explained how they shot 2 times. One time after DSing, another time during the shooting phase.
So 2x2 + 2x2 = 8, yup.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/01 11:55:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 11:57:18
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Except that last time I checked, you don't.
The inferno pistols don't have the range to shoot in the shooting phase, they shoot only in the movement phase thanks to the stratagem bonus range.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 12:00:21
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
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niet
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 12:00:23
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Spoletta wrote:Except that last time I checked, you don't.
The inferno pistols don't have the range to shoot in the shooting phase, they shoot only in the movement phase thanks to the stratagem bonus range.
That's actually a good point
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 12:29:45
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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dhallnet wrote:the_scotsman wrote:dhallnet wrote:the_scotsman wrote:
Um.
How? IIRC you can only get 4 inferno pistols in a unit, and once you have 4 inferno pistols and 2 plasma pistols you're at over 100pts...
You can have a 5 woman squad with 2x2 Inferno pistols and 1 plasma pistol on the Sister Superior for 100.
You then spend one CP to shoot when they land from DS, so you end up with 8 fusion shots and 2 plasma shots in a round.
I think the part where you're confused here is 2x2 = 8?
I think you missed the part where it's explained how they shot 2 times. One time after DSing, another time during the shooting phase.
So 2x2 + 2x2 = 8, yup.
the strat only ups the range temporarily, and they don't get melta range which is now a much bigger deal.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 13:38:32
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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All that is the reason I'm shelving my favorite army, Chaos Knights. I had a decent run with them. But I think until my Codex drops I'm just gonna run my WE, even though they're not really any better off.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 13:42:30
Subject: Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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Worried about my LRBTs. I love those things and they looked so durable for their cost at the start of 8th....not anymore
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 13:46:57
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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I wonder if we'll see a return of the armoured ceramite rule for some vehicles to mitigate the new melta rules. It was always an auto-take for me in 7th for my Fellblade and Sicaran. That said even without that I'm hoping even more that the Legion super heavys get fair prices in the Imperial Armour Compendium, T9 2+ is one of the best defensive stat lines against things like eradicators right now, along with the Achilles T8 2+ 4++. Most other vehicles are in trouble.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 13:55:02
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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Gadzilla666 wrote: I wonder if we'll see a return of the armoured ceramite rule for some vehicles to mitigate the new melta rules. It was always an auto-take for me in 7th for my Fellblade and Sicaran. That said even without that I'm hoping even more that the Legion super heavys get fair prices in the Imperial Armour Compendium, T9 2+ is one of the best defensive stat lines against things like eradicators right now, along with the Achilles T8 2+ 4++. Most other vehicles are in trouble.
Im worried Levis are gonna get a big hit in the compendium...mostly because I just bought one
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 14:34:02
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM
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Gadzilla666 wrote: I wonder if we'll see a return of the armoured ceramite rule for some vehicles to mitigate the new melta rules. It was always an auto-take for me in 7th for my Fellblade and Sicaran. That said even without that I'm hoping even more that the Legion super heavys get fair prices in the Imperial Armour Compendium, T9 2+ is one of the best defensive stat lines against things like eradicators right now, along with the Achilles T8 2+ 4++. Most other vehicles are in trouble.
what did armored ceramite do?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 14:37:45
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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VladimirHerzog wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote: I wonder if we'll see a return of the armoured ceramite rule for some vehicles to mitigate the new melta rules. It was always an auto-take for me in 7th for my Fellblade and Sicaran. That said even without that I'm hoping even more that the Legion super heavys get fair prices in the Imperial Armour Compendium, T9 2+ is one of the best defensive stat lines against things like eradicators right now, along with the Achilles T8 2+ 4++. Most other vehicles are in trouble.
what did armored ceramite do?
Countered the melta bonus, instead of having 2D6 AP in half range they only got D6.
The equivalent qould be you only get D6 damage per wound regardless. (Though at this point I'm not sure just making it turn it from D6 to D3 might not be better served if your trying to keep vehicals viable).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/01 14:38:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 14:42:08
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM
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Ice_can wrote: VladimirHerzog wrote: Gadzilla666 wrote: I wonder if we'll see a return of the armoured ceramite rule for some vehicles to mitigate the new melta rules. It was always an auto-take for me in 7th for my Fellblade and Sicaran. That said even without that I'm hoping even more that the Legion super heavys get fair prices in the Imperial Armour Compendium, T9 2+ is one of the best defensive stat lines against things like eradicators right now, along with the Achilles T8 2+ 4++. Most other vehicles are in trouble.
what did armored ceramite do?
Countered the melta bonus, instead of having 2D6 AP in half range they only got D6.
The equivalent qould be you only get D6 damage per wound regardless. (Though at this point I'm not sure just making it turn it from D6 to D3 might not be better served if your trying to keep vehicals viable).
that would be a nice buff, but it would be pretty hard to word and future-proof unless GW finally gives weapons keywords.
RIght now it would be "when targeted by a melta/fusion/heatlande/etc, weapon from within half its range ....".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/01 14:44:41
Subject: Re:Post-SM and Necron codex, will there be a point to bringing larger vehicles/monsters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Annandale, VA
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Blackie wrote:A lascannon is 15 and nobody says it's overpowered/undercosted. Aren't two lascannons comparable if not better than a single multi-melta? +1S, twice the range, split fire but +1AP and no melta bonus. Sounds like there is no competition to me.
I'd price a new multimelta 20 points for infantry and 25 for vehicles.
Lascannons are 20 for Marines.
Doing a comparison between one multi-melta to two lascannons, deciding that they're pretty comparable, and concluding that a multi-melta should cost the same as one lascannon is a really bizarre take. Even for armies like Guard where lascannons are 15, getting roughly double the firepower, at lower range but even more powerful if you can get in close, all for just a 33% premium, seems like a steal.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/01 14:46:34
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