Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This wording comes up on a couple of rules/strats.


What exactly does this mean? I am obviously familiar with wholly within and within as limiting features of abilities.

Do these rules mean either entirely within or just within?

The difference to me is whether or not you can just toe touch a piece of area terrain to count the squad as within which activates a lot of rules.

What specific Night Lords rule are you asking about?

 DeathReaper wrote:
What specific Night Lords rule are you asking about?

The wording appears on:

One with the shadows WL trait
From the Night strat

The rules dont define when you are within or wholly within. You have to do that yourself.

 p5freak wrote:
The rules dont define when you are within or wholly within. You have to do that yourself.

My question is are these rules asking me to be entirely within a terrain feature or just within? (and/or entirely on)

Ah, so you're asking if it means "Entirely (on or within)" or if it means "(Entirely on) or (within)"?

I would say the former - to my mind it would be odd if you could claim a rule if the unit either had every base "on" a feature, or if they were just "within" (being one model on the feature). There would be no reason to say anything other than "within".

I guess the reason for the wording is to avoid people claiming unit on top of buildings aren't within buildings, so they worded it to cover both.

I would say the extended version of this (what it actually means) is "Entirely on or entirely within". All models in the unit have to be either on or within the feature.

 some bloke wrote:
Ah, so you're asking if it means "Entirely (on or within)" or if it means "(Entirely on) or (within)"?

I would say the former - to my mind it would be odd if you could claim a rule if the unit either had every base "on" a feature, or if they were just "within" (being one model on the feature). There would be no reason to say anything other than "within".

I guess the reason for the wording is to avoid people claiming unit on top of buildings aren't within buildings, so they worded it to cover both.

I would say the extended version of this (what it actually means) is "Entirely on or entirely within". All models in the unit have to be either on or within the feature.

Yes this is my question, sorry if I made it unclear.

Page 5 of the free Battle Primer outlines what within and wholly within mean for models and for units. There’s even four bullet points that sum it all up.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Page 5 of the free Battle Primer outlines what within and wholly within mean for models and for units. There’s even four bullet points that sum it all up.

Like I mentioned I know what what wholly within and within mean.

The question is if the night lords rules mean "Entirely (on or within)" or if it means "(Entirely on) or (within)"?

 Aijec wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Page 5 of the free Battle Primer outlines what within and wholly within mean for models and for units. There’s even four bullet points that sum it all up.

Like I mentioned I know what what wholly within and within mean.

The question is if the night lords rules mean "Entirely (on or within)" or if it means "(Entirely on) or (within)"?

Entirely [on or within] is how it parses.

 some bloke wrote:
Ah, so you're asking if it means "Entirely (on or within)" or if it means "(Entirely on) or (within)"?

I would say the former - to my mind it would be odd if you could claim a rule if the unit either had every base "on" a feature, or if they were just "within" (being one model on the feature). There would be no reason to say anything other than "within".

I guess the reason for the wording is to avoid people claiming unit on top of buildings aren't within buildings, so they worded it to cover both.

I would say the extended version of this (what it actually means) is "Entirely on or entirely within". All models in the unit have to be either on or within the feature.

It's even more confusing when you think about the warlord trait that uses the same wording.

A warlord is only ever a single model so why is the word entirely used at all?

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Aijec wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Page 5 of the free Battle Primer outlines what within and wholly within mean for models and for units. There’s even four bullet points that sum it all up.

Like I mentioned I know what what wholly within and within mean.

The question is if the night lords rules mean "Entirely (on or within)" or if it means "(Entirely on) or (within)"?

Entirely [on or within] is how it parses.

yep, because if "within" is an option, then "entirely on" becomes redundant.

It's like when they assigned a role to someone where I work, and then they found he didn't have the needed qualifications, so instead of training him they just changed the job description.
In the end, the requirements were "A Degree in Metallurgy or 3 GCSE's". Yes, really.

 Aijec wrote:
It's even more confusing when you think about the warlord trait that uses the same wording.
A warlord is only ever a single model so why is the word entirely used at all?

This is what clinches it for me - a single model can be "within" but not "wholly within", by perching its base half over the edge.
So it's very likely the rule is supposed to be "entirely (on or within)" - you're right that the other option holds no sense for single models.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Aijec wrote:
It's even more confusing when you think about the warlord trait that uses the same wording.
A warlord is only ever a single model so why is the word entirely used at all?

This is what clinches it for me - a single model can be "within" but not "wholly within", by perching its base half over the edge.
So it's very likely the rule is supposed to be "entirely (on or within)" - you're right that the other option holds no sense for single models.

Probably just a copy/paste from a similar rule.

Not sure if this is the right thread, but am I reading the wording for Stormbolt Plate correctly..... "Always counts as being in cover, even while it is not entirely on or within a terrain feature."

Does this mean it is always in cover, even while in the wide open? Because not being on any terrain feature still counts as not being "entirely on or within a terrain feature."

 Green is Best! wrote:
Not sure if this is the right thread, but am I reading the wording for Stormbolt Plate correctly..... "Always counts as being in cover, even while it is not entirely on or within a terrain feature."

Does this mean it is always in cover, even while in the wide open? Because not being on any terrain feature still counts as not being "entirely on or within a terrain feature."

It means it always has the benefit of Light Cover (+1 to non-invulnerable save rolls against shooting attacks), regardless of whether it is on or in terrain, as per the Rare Rules appendix.