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Hello fine dakka folk. I've looked around but I couldn't see this being asked anywhere so sorry if I've missed it.


Say you have a Trigon with accelerated digestion that drops to 0 wounds, so you fire off the stratagem death frenzy letting you fight again before death, and you kill a model and get 1 or more wounds back. Do you remain on the table as you're back above 0 wounds now, or do you technically regain the wounds and are removed regardless.

 obsidianaura wrote:
Hello fine dakka folk. I've looked around but I couldn't see this being asked anywhere so sorry if I've missed it.


Say you have a Trigon with accelerated digestion that drops to 0 wounds, so you fire off the stratagem death frenzy letting you fight again before death, and you kill a model and get 1 or more wounds back. Do you remain on the table as you're back above 0 wounds now, or do you technically regain the wounds and are removed regardless.

Can you quote the entirety of the relevant rules? Sometimes, specific wording matters a ton.

HIWPI, though, is that you'd keep the Trygon. They're above 0 wounds. Not sure about the RAW.

Death Frenzy probably has in the rule something like: Before removing the model, immediately fight again as though it was the fight phase, then remove the model.

I hardly used it though so im not sure on the exact wording.

Death Frenzy says "Use this Stratagem when a TYRANIDS CHARACTER from your army is slain...it can immediately fight as if it were your Fight phase before it is removed from the battlefield." (Removed the part about shooting).


So I do not think Accelerated Digestion will help, since the model was already slain and you still need to remove it.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Death Frenzy says "Use this Stratagem when a TYRANIDS CHARACTER from your army is slain...it can immediately fight as if it were your Fight phase before it is removed from the battlefield." (Removed the part about shooting).


So I do not think Accelerated Digestion will help, since the model was already slain and you still need to remove it.

Seconded. Death throes mechanics triggers upon 'slain, thus remove'. Resolution of the death throes involves removal of model. Accelerated digestion triggers at the end of the fight phase. If enemy units have been slain during fight phase, then you 'heal' wounds. You cannot 'heal' wounds of model that has been removed.

In OP's case, the trygon is slain and removed at the end of ITS fight phase, whereas accelerated digestion occurs at the end of THE fight phase.

A slain model is slain, you cant unslay it, no matter how many wounds it gains.

 p5freak wrote:
A slain model is slain, you cant unslay it, no matter how many wounds it gains.

Certain rules allow you to 'unslay' a model.

 skchsan wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
A slain model is slain, you cant unslay it, no matter how many wounds it gains.

Certain rules allow you to 'unslay' a model.

Ok, but those are different rules which allow you to return, or revive a slain model. You cant unslay a model by gaining wounds back in the same phase, unless a special rule says otherwise.

Which is why this is a simple timing issue, not something that requires 'mental gymnastics that makes Russian circus contortionist look like a joke' type of logic.

There are no provisions that specifically prohibits what you're claiming (i.e. "You cant unslay a model by gaining wounds back in the same phase, unless a special rule says otherwise").

The two rules are simply not triggered at the same time. The trygon simply cannot invoke the rule (accel'd digestion) in the first place because it's not on the battlefield in order to be eligible to resolve its special rule at the end of your fight phase.

The basic rules dont support to return a slain model which gains wounds back after is has been slain. You would need a special rule for that. I cant think of any that would return a slain unit to the battlefield after it has been removed, at a later point of time in the game, like at the end of the turn, next battle round, etc. I know necrons can revive a slain character model, which is set up in the same phase it was killed.

It doesn't matter because its inconsequential for the answer to OP's question.

Even if I gave you an example (i.e. celestine & geminae superia, new revival strat for apothcary, re-deploy abilities that tell you to 'remove from battlefield'), you're just going to brush it off with "well that's one exception, but I'm right for all other general cases". You have a tendency of overcomplicating things - don't.

Oh dear dead god in Terra, we just literally settled this with the FnP on Thrakka Thread. FnP , and all abilities like it, have been FAQ'd....

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Oh dear dead god in Terra, we just literally settled this with the FnP on Thrakka Thread. FnP , and all abilities like it, have been FAQ'd....

Except there is nothing in the Nid FAQ about Accelerated Digestion.

Exact same fething rule as the Nurgle acid blood thing. Do they get their attack off if they do their FnP. YES. like 4 pages of it.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Exact same fething rule as the Nurgle acid blood thing. Do they get their attack off if they do their FnP. YES. like 4 pages of it.

Accelerated Digestion is quite different than FNP type rules, just fyi.

Alright, let's drop the actual rules text in here. Let's also nip the FNP argument right in the bud because those conflicts don't carry the same wording that this does.

Death Frenzy:
"Use this Stratagem when a TYRANIDS CHARACTER from your army is slain; the Hive Mind compels it to one final attack, and it can immediately either shoot as if it were your Shooting phase, or fight as if it were your Fight phase before it is removed from the battlefield."

Accelerated Digestion:
"In the Fight phase, when an enemy model is destroyed as a result of an attack made by this model, this model regains up to 1 lost wound. No more than 3 lost wounds can be regained as a result of this rule in any one turn."

The way I see it, the model can indeed restore a Wound and not leave the table as a result.
Death Frenzy states you can perform the stratagem "immediately" - this also states this takes place before the model is removed from the battlefield (eg not removed from being slain), which is in fact necessary in order to measure distance for that final attack.
Accelerated Digestion then tells you that you can regain lost wounds per each model destroyed by an attack - note that Death Frenzy specifically allows you to attack, so that criteria is met.
It also says "in the Fight phase" - that means at any point in the phase, not at the end.

So the triggering order is:

- model is reduced to 0 Wounds
- player declares Death Frenzy, interrupting the usual removal of model
- Death Frenzy kills an enemy, triggering Accelerated Digestion
- Wounds are returned, as we are still "in the Fight phase"
- model would now normally be removed, but is no longer at 0 Wounds.

Death Frenzy is used when a model is slain.

As part of that happening a slain model is removed from the battlefield.

Nothing in Accelerated Digestion says to keep the model on the table.

So Accelerated Digestion can not save a model that has used Death Frenzy.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Death Frenzy is used when a model is slain.

As part of that happening a slain model is removed from the battlefield.

Nothing in Accelerated Digestion says to keep the model on the table.

So Accelerated Digestion can not save a model that has used Death Frenzy.

Agreed. Its irrelevant when the model gains wounds. Its slain and must be removed. Death frenzy is a special rule which lets it fight before its removed. But neither rule says that the model isnt removed when it gains wounds.

Thank you for such through replies. I agree with the general consensus.

Yes the Tyranid would get the wounds back. However it is still removed as a casualty as there is no wording preventing this.

I'm sure that's what a GW FAQ would rule too.

Thank you all for taking the time to ponder this.

Fair point, DR and p5... on reflection, I'm in agreement.

Same thing happens with all tyranids that have lashwhips. Lashwhipes let them attack after they die before they get removed from the table.

Technically you can build a whole army armed with lashwhips just popping back to life.

Sounds potentially strong.