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2020/10/28 20:29:29
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
I'll admit when one friend of mine uses his mini dice (he always keeps them separated by color in exactly 60dice minibags) I just take the results he has said to me as true because theres no way I'm gonna look and stop the game to count everything from the other side of the table.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2020/10/28 20:32:11
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
SecondTime wrote: I don't let my opponents use the mini D6s due to legibility reasons. I also don't let them use GW specialty dice. Gravity dice are preferred if possible.
I can go to most game stores and just pick 12 D12s out of a bucket and play with them. I do most of my rolls in 10s or 12s anyway. Just use regular scale. I suspect that that's the reason for the differing experiences.
Well some of my units roll 40-90 dice at a time. I refuse to roll anything but mini dice. Good luck telling other people what dice they can use.
I just don't play them. The mini dice are hard to read and don't roll particularly well.
2020/10/28 20:35:52
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
In order to move to a new type of dice they either need to make the dice available in miniature sizes or they need to move to apocalypse style stat lines and data sheets so that the number of dice rolled is drastically reduced.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/28 20:38:07
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Lance845 wrote: The issue with changing the dice is purely availability of dice.
Mini d12s are a nightmare to come by in any sizable amount. Go try to buy just 10 of them. Contact dice manufacturers. Good luck.
Is this a problem in the USA ?
If anyone needs dice sets of any size, number, or sides, its pretty easy to come by. Most LGSs in sweden can contact a distributor or manufacturer and order sets of any make up and even large amounts of loose bags of various sizes... I have done this myself... I called the distributor because my friend owns the store I did it through. Is it possible your LGS just doesnt want to put the leg work in ?
not sure what we are talking about... but I really do not think this is a kind of limitation.
No I am talking through experience contacting dice manufacturers both in europe and america. Ordering dice that are not d6s and d10s in larger quantities is difficult especially if you are looking for particular colors. It gets exponentially worse if you are looking for minis. (8-10mm scale as opposed to the standard 16mm scale). You know those cubes of 36 mini d6s people buy for like 10-15 bucks? Easy to come by. Want to get 30 d12s at the same scale? Again. Good luck. If you can find a manufacturer that would even be willing to sell you 100 as a minimum order I would love to hear about it. I have been told by multiple manufacturers that their molds for the dice come in the basic sets (d4/d6/d8/d10/d%/d12/d20) and they cannot manufacture d12s alone.
Again, if you can find something that does otherwise I would love to hear about it. I have a project that would really benefit from finding a supplier.
Your telling me Chessex couldn't hook this up for you ? me and you sir have had very different experiences with that company... Not sure what to tell you. I got an entire pallet of loose dice at the same scale about 2 years ago from them. Sure, we had to sort them ourselves but it wasn't too bad. We were even given options to buy the same colour sets at what ever quantity in what ever scales , # of sides and styles but it was cheaper to buy boxes of loose dice from them so we went with that.
Are you associated with a store or are you trying to do this as a private person ? that could be the difference ?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/28 20:45:12
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/28 20:46:22
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Lance845 wrote: The issue with changing the dice is purely availability of dice.
Mini d12s are a nightmare to come by in any sizable amount. Go try to buy just 10 of them. Contact dice manufacturers. Good luck.
Is this a problem in the USA ?
If anyone needs dice sets of any size, number, or sides, its pretty easy to come by. Most LGSs in sweden can contact a distributor or manufacturer and order sets of any make up and even large amounts of loose bags of various sizes... I have done this myself... I called the distributor because my friend owns the store I did it through. Is it possible your LGS just doesnt want to put the leg work in ?
not sure what we are talking about... but I really do not think this is a kind of limitation.
No I am talking through experience contacting dice manufacturers both in europe and america. Ordering dice that are not d6s and d10s in larger quantities is difficult especially if you are looking for particular colors. It gets exponentially worse if you are looking for minis. (8-10mm scale as opposed to the standard 16mm scale). You know those cubes of 36 mini d6s people buy for like 10-15 bucks? Easy to come by. Want to get 30 d12s at the same scale? Again. Good luck. If you can find a manufacturer that would even be willing to sell you 100 as a minimum order I would love to hear about it. I have been told by multiple manufacturers that their molds for the dice come in the basic sets (d4/d6/d8/d10/d%/d12/d20) and they cannot manufacture d12s alone.
Again, if you can find something that does otherwise I would love to hear about it. I have a project that would really benefit from finding a supplier.
Your telling me Chessex couldn't hook this up for you ? me and you sir have had very different experiences with that company... Not sure what to tell you. I got an entire pallet of loose dice at the same scale about 2 years ago from them. Sure, we had to sort them ourselves but it wasn't too bad. We were even given options to buy the same colour sets at what ever quantity in what ever scales , # of sides and styles but it was cheaper to buy boxes of loose dice from them.
Are you associated with a store or are you trying to do this as a private person ? that could be the difference ?
Yeah, I am telling you that Chessex does not sell mini dice in individual sizes (d12) in the 8-10mm scale. You can buy a dnd set in very specific colors (all bright translucents mostly with horrible legibility)
I have tried as a individual, through a store with a very large regular stock of dice, and as a business looking to create a product over the last 4 years checking in with them and others at different times.
Chessex will not make you a set of those dice in black with white lettering as an example. They only come in those particular colors. And you could not order 100 d10s at that size (again the mold is apparently for the whole set so they only make them as a whole set).
Go give it a try and let me know if you get better answers.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/28 20:53:44
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Lance845 wrote: The issue with changing the dice is purely availability of dice.
Mini d12s are a nightmare to come by in any sizable amount. Go try to buy just 10 of them. Contact dice manufacturers. Good luck.
Is this a problem in the USA ?
If anyone needs dice sets of any size, number, or sides, its pretty easy to come by. Most LGSs in sweden can contact a distributor or manufacturer and order sets of any make up and even large amounts of loose bags of various sizes... I have done this myself... I called the distributor because my friend owns the store I did it through. Is it possible your LGS just doesnt want to put the leg work in ?
not sure what we are talking about... but I really do not think this is a kind of limitation.
No I am talking through experience contacting dice manufacturers both in europe and america. Ordering dice that are not d6s and d10s in larger quantities is difficult especially if you are looking for particular colors. It gets exponentially worse if you are looking for minis. (8-10mm scale as opposed to the standard 16mm scale). You know those cubes of 36 mini d6s people buy for like 10-15 bucks? Easy to come by. Want to get 30 d12s at the same scale? Again. Good luck. If you can find a manufacturer that would even be willing to sell you 100 as a minimum order I would love to hear about it. I have been told by multiple manufacturers that their molds for the dice come in the basic sets (d4/d6/d8/d10/d%/d12/d20) and they cannot manufacture d12s alone.
Again, if you can find something that does otherwise I would love to hear about it. I have a project that would really benefit from finding a supplier.
Your telling me Chessex couldn't hook this up for you ? me and you sir have had very different experiences with that company... Not sure what to tell you. I got an entire pallet of loose dice at the same scale about 2 years ago from them. Sure, we had to sort them ourselves but it wasn't too bad. We were even given options to buy the same colour sets at what ever quantity in what ever scales , # of sides and styles but it was cheaper to buy boxes of loose dice from them.
Are you associated with a store or are you trying to do this as a private person ? that could be the difference ?
Yeah, I am telling you that Chessex does not sell mini dice in individual sizes (d12) in the 8-10mm scale. You can buy a dnd set in very specific colors (all bright translucents mostly with horrible legibility)
I have tried as a individual, through a store with a very large regular stock of dice, and as a business looking to create a product over the last 4 years checking in with them and others at different times.
Chessex will not make you a set of those dice in black with white lettering as an example. They only come in those particular colors. And you could not order 100 d10s at that size (again the mold is apparently for the whole set so they only make them as a whole set).
Go give it a try and let me know if you get better answers.
honestly, I can look into this and get back to you.
Saying that, sure your limited by the sizes, styles and #sides they offer... geting a bunch of loose 8-10mm of all #sides and styles in bulk would be relatively easy and I am sure possible. But the fact that you want such specific ones... I could see how they would expect you to buy too large a quantity to be worth it.
Honestly though, then it is a you problem. You can most definitely either get large quantities at a different size OR large quantities of them mismatched at the size you want ... In order to play the game one of thos concessions could totally and reasonablybe made... Not to mention, if a game the size of warhammer required it, 100% chessex would create a product due to the increased demand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/28 20:54:06
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/28 20:58:51
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/28 21:01:33
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: To fix the game you need a whole rewrite, period. Thats difficult though when people here are vehemently against changing IGOUGO because "muh legacy rules it's change and i don't like the idea of a proper depth game" and against changing the dice to a slightly higher system because of something as absurd as "i can't read the numbers as quick".
I haven't met anyone that protests the former as it comes up, and the latter isn't actually relevant because you can achieve any probability with any size dice - what matters are the permutations it is put through by the rules. After all, for an 8% chance for X to succeed, you can either roll a 12 on a D12, or you can roll a 6 on a D6 and then a 4+.
Maybe I have misunderstood you, but if you are comparing the result you can obtain throwing a D12 and the result you can obtain throwing 2 D6, you have to consider that you can't obtain 1 with two D6 and above all with two D6 you have a not linear probability distribution: for example with two D6 you have a probability in thirty-six (which is 2.78 in percentage) to obtain 2 or 12 and 6 probability in thirty-six (which is 72.22 in percentage) and this not linearity can have some interesting effects (not necessarily bad) on the game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/28 21:08:22
The answer is inside you; but it is wrong.
2020/10/28 21:05:45
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Lance845 wrote: But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
If GW was making a change like that,,, oh man you better believe they would make sure the dice were available, they would have a deal set up with at least one of major manufacturers well in advance and they would capitalize on it 100% ... I honestly think availability is none issue here... now I can totally see other issues,,, I just really think GW is big enough that availability wouldn't be a problem,,, in fact,,, it could be incredibly profitable ... and we know how GW feels about profit .
I can see them scheming in the board room already
Mat Ward : "and then they will buy ALL of our d36s because we will be the only ones offering them " *laughs maniacally* "hey you, give those marines bigger guns !!!, these ultramarine d36s arn't going to sell if players arn't convinced these guns CAN do 36 dmg will they ! " *Matt Ward walks out of GWHQ stroking his hasbro ultramarine action figure*
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/28 21:12:52
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/28 21:09:42
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
I'd actually prefer a D10 for the 10% increments, but that's completely academic. I did a fan rewrite of 7th using the old AP system with D10 that was pretty cool the couple times we play tested it.
All armor was 2+ to 10+ and you got half (rounded up) of the save if the weapon AP matched exactly.
Terminators with 2+ (on a d10) got a 6+ save vs AP 2 and no save vs AP 1.
But this was before AP mods came back and multiple wounds, etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/28 21:10:39
2020/10/28 21:10:56
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Lance845 wrote: But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
Lance845 wrote: But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
If GW was making a change like that,,, oh man you better believe they would make sure the dice were available, they would have a deal set up with at least one of major manufacturers well in advance and they would capitalize on it 100% ... I honestly think availability is none issue here... now I can totally see other issues,,, I just really think GW is big enough that availability wouldn't be a problem,,, in fact,,, it could be incredibly profitable ... and we know how GW feels about profit .
It would necessitate the creation of new molds. Which I am not sure GW is willing to shell out for. Do I think GW would make FULL sized d12s? Absolutely. Full sized d12s would be all over the place. Minis? Naw.
Lance845 wrote: But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
Lance845 wrote: You misunderstood. It's rolling a d6 and then rerolling that d6 if you got a particular result.
I.E. 1d6 result is a 6 (effectively a 11 on a d12). Reroll that d6 and get a 4+ and now it's a 12.
You had a wonderful idea! You could roll two dice (for example a white one and a red one), using the second one to decide if a certain number (for example 4) corresponds to 8 or 9. You just solved an issue I had when I tried to rectify the rules of the second edition, without change the dice.
The answer is inside you; but it is wrong.
2020/10/28 21:14:35
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Lance845 wrote: But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
If GW was making a change like that,,, oh man you better believe they would make sure the dice were available, they would have a deal set up with at least one of major manufacturers well in advance and they would capitalize on it 100% ... I honestly think availability is none issue here... now I can totally see other issues,,, I just really think GW is big enough that availability wouldn't be a problem,,, in fact,,, it could be incredibly profitable ... and we know how GW feels about profit .
It would necessitate the creation of new molds. Which I am not sure GW is willing to shell out for. Do I think GW would make FULL sized d12s? Absolutely. Full sized d12s would be all over the place. Minis? Naw.
Lance845 wrote: But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
Again, those are full sized. Not mini. 16mm scale not 8-10.
I think you underestimate how automated the dice production industry has become in the past decade... honestly, I really can't see this as a problem these days. But alas, i ll find out for you and if I pull it off you can buy em from me if you really want XD.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/28 21:15:44
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/28 21:17:34
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Lance845 wrote: But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
If GW was making a change like that,,, oh man you better believe they would make sure the dice were available, they would have a deal set up with at least one of major manufacturers well in advance and they would capitalize on it 100% ... I honestly think availability is none issue here... now I can totally see other issues,,, I just really think GW is big enough that availability wouldn't be a problem,,, in fact,,, it could be incredibly profitable ... and we know how GW feels about profit .
It would necessitate the creation of new molds. Which I am not sure GW is willing to shell out for. Do I think GW would make FULL sized d12s? Absolutely. Full sized d12s would be all over the place. Minis? Naw.
Lance845 wrote: But thats the issue. If GW makes the change the dice need to already be available. I am fine on rolling any number of sides dice if I can get a large enough quantity in the correct scale at a price to be worth it.
But they are not available. So sitting on this forum and suggesting it is a problem. I managed to cut a deal with a store who sold me 100 d12s in 3 different colors about 4 years back. But the owner had to pull individual dice out of dnd sets to get them for me and I had to pay a higher price on the individual dice because it would be harder for her to sell the others.
I have 100 d12s because I had a really cool store owner do a 1 off for me. Nobody else is reasonably getting that deal.
Again, they are not. Those are standard sized dice. Stop spending a minute on google and coming back with a product I am not talking about. You can contact Dice Emporium and ask them about the size of those dice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/28 21:42:31
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/28 23:47:52
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
All of these dice changes seem like they are a bigger pain in the butt that the benefits they gain in granularity. Thought of carrying and trying to roll 20 d10s is egghhh
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/28 23:48:22
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
40k can function fine with D6s, it doesn't need more granularity to adequately represent the various units. It just needs more care given to using the space that it has.
Insectum7 wrote: 40k can function fine with D6s, it doesn't need more granularity to adequately represent the various units. It just needs more care given to using the space that it has.
Yeah... having to consider things like facing/ manouvering as well as target priority and leadership are mechanics that do this to a degree and have been mentioned.
However apparently people have been demanding "streamliend rules" and "acessible" "easy to learn" and other buzzwords from WH... And AOS and 40k current is the result where re-rolls and modifiers are the only mechanics left for cryin out loud.. This is what a "streamlined" game looks like.It just gets janky when you play with titanic models and grots because of this constant dumming down.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Insectum7 wrote: 40k can function fine with D6s, it doesn't need more granularity to adequately represent the various units. It just needs more care given to using the space that it has.
Yeah... having to consider things like facing/ manouvering as well as target priority and leadership are mechanics that do this to a degree and have been mentioned.
However apparently people have been demanding "streamliend rules" and "acessible" "easy to learn" and other buzzwords from WH... And AOS and 40k current is the result where re-rolls and modifiers are the only mechanics left for cryin out loud.. This is what a "streamlined" game looks like.It just gets janky when you play with titanic models and grots because of this constant dumming down.
Disagree. You can very easily have a streamlined and simple game with a ton of tactical depth. GW just seems incapable of making that game.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/29 01:38:15
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Insectum7 wrote: 40k can function fine with D6s, it doesn't need more granularity to adequately represent the various units. It just needs more care given to using the space that it has.
Yeah... having to consider things like facing/ manouvering as well as target priority and leadership are mechanics that do this to a degree and have been mentioned.
However apparently people have been demanding "streamliend rules" and "acessible" "easy to learn" and other buzzwords from WH... And AOS and 40k current is the result where re-rolls and modifiers are the only mechanics left for cryin out loud.. This is what a "streamlined" game looks like.It just gets janky when you play with titanic models and grots because of this constant dumming down.
Disagree. You can very easily have a streamlined and simple game with a ton of tactical depth. GW just seems incapable of making that game.
There certainly is that argument about GW I wont deny..
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Other games fill that space, perfectly happy with GW going more streamlined while still having tactical depth.
So many of those things just caused stress and additional arguements which were not fun. Rather they remove opportunities for that as much as possible. Adding pre-measure and removing templates and facings made the games a lot more fun.
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Leth wrote: Other games fill that space, perfectly happy with GW going more streamlined while still having tactical depth.
So many of those things just caused stress and additional arguements which were not fun. Rather they remove opportunities for that as much as possible. Adding pre-measure and removing templates and facings made the games a lot more fun.
I get why they did it, but templates were fun as hell and screwing up and scattering artillery onto your own face was hilarious.
"All you 40k people out there have managed to more or less do something that I did some time ago, and some of my friends did before me, and some of their friends did before them: When you saw the water getting gakky, you decided to, well, get out of the pool, rather than say 'I guess this is water now.'"
-Tex Talks Battletech on GW
2020/10/29 07:28:35
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Spent more time watching people space out 2 inches and argue about blasts to the point where I stopped including them in my list just to save time. I am glad they are gone, same with armor facings.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/29 07:28:59
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Leth wrote: Spent more time watching people space out 2 inches and argue about blasts to the point where I stopped including them in my list just to save time. I am glad they are gone, same with armor facings.
You're not wrong in that doing so removed room for argument, but it also removed the source of childlike glee that was landing a ridiculous number of hits, the way perfectly gauging a distance made you feel brilliant, or the hilarious chagrin in blowing up my own Razorbacks with an untimely scatter roll; all cutting memorable moments from the game. I don't personally agree that this was worth it, but I can accept that this is down to your personal gaming experience.
"All you 40k people out there have managed to more or less do something that I did some time ago, and some of my friends did before me, and some of their friends did before them: When you saw the water getting gakky, you decided to, well, get out of the pool, rather than say 'I guess this is water now.'"
-Tex Talks Battletech on GW
2020/10/29 08:07:20
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
Leth wrote: Spent more time watching people space out 2 inches and argue about blasts to the point where I stopped including them in my list just to save time. I am glad they are gone, same with armor facings.
You're not wrong in that doing so removed room for argument, but it also removed the source of childlike glee that was landing a ridiculous number of hits, the way perfectly gauging a distance made you feel brilliant, or the hilarious chagrin in blowing up my own Razorbacks with an untimely scatter roll; all cutting memorable moments from the game. I don't personally agree that this was worth it, but I can accept that this is down to your personal gaming experience.
And, now we watch people congaline instead and blob tightly together to avoid consolidation issues AND provide a small angle of attack against melee...
It isn't much better, let's be honest here.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2020/10/29 08:27:56
Subject: I don’t think marines should have two wounds
For everyone else it was a huge pain in the ass and source of plenty of bad feelings, not worth the possible random memorable moments IMO. Nothing fun in arguing the angle of the die so that it hits 1 model instead of 3.
Apparently GW agreed because they got rid of a bunch of that stuff and the game has been more fun for it, same with no ore-measuring, they have slowly removed the sources of unfun arguements and cheating and I couldn’t be happier.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/29 08:28:37
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Eldar- 4436 pts
