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I know, I know we all saw it. It can't Deep Strike. Even though it plummets down from Orbit. We all laughed.

But it's not that bad. It can never have that full 36" threat radius - but how often do you need to threaten something 36 inches behind your front line?

Give it the Flamers and it probably can't threaten all the objectives because 12 inches, but the bolter "array" can. And it's shooting Heavy 3" S5 -1 D2 at everything within 36". That aint bad. You plant that thing front and center, especially on the four objective games and I'll bet it gets real irrtating real fast.

The Missle turret on top is just gravy. But it's buffed up gravy. Whirlwinds are going to wish they had this turret. Heavy 2D6 S6 0 D1 Blast frag?

Unless BUILDING has some sort of inherent transport capacity it's a bunker that Marines can't actually get in and use as... a bunker. Queue more well deserved laughing if so.

You get 3 Fortifications per Fort Det. It costs 1 CP, but you get 1CP back if the Forts match your Warlord (i.e. free if you don't soup). I don't see a point value in the leak, but at 9PL and it defaults to the HB Array - I'd estimate 180 points. That's what we used to pay for a Dev Squad, and this is probably/usually better that that Dev Squad. Pop three of these Dead Center across from several Objectives and I bet it gets frickin annoying frickin fast.

Don’t buy it then.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Don’t buy it then.

I think I'm buying either 3 or 6. Depends on if DA's -Wings are a workable army this edition. Did you think I was complaining about it? Have you ever had that feeling you left the stove turned on or the water running and so forth before a long trip to the grocery store or something? I think they're good, but I have that "I feel like I'm missing something" feeling too.

Breton wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Don’t buy it then.

I think I'm buying either 3 or 6. Depends on if DA's -Wings are a workable army this edition. Did you think I was complaining about it? Have you ever had that feeling you left the stove turned on or the water running and so forth before a long trip to the grocery store or something? I think they're good, but I have that "I feel like I'm missing something" feeling too.

There's a lot of inherent chance based on terrain and deployment that makes them iffy. Likewkse I think they may punish inexperienced players at low points but be ineffective at larger games with better opponents.

Dudeface wrote:

There's a lot of inherent chance based on terrain and deployment that makes them iffy. Likewkse I think they may punish inexperienced players at low points but be ineffective at larger games with better opponents.

What makes you say that? I mean I get people like to stack terrain in the center with a big house in each deployment corner for their back line heavies to play house in on the second floor. But that's still a 36" range on a 44" table. Can you deploy them on the second level of a house if they fit? Go 10-12 inches in and drop and you've probably got half or better of the center and opponent deployment zone in range. 3 of them will do 9 S5 -1 D2 shots on every unit where even one model is visible. Plus the 3 missle turrets for the big blobs. Knights are going to laugh and say that tickles, but most armies aren't going to enjoy it. And unless there's a FAQ or something I'm missing that includes your characters? I just looked again and this occurred to me? Your characters are eligible units? You can target and shoot all "eligible units" Or not? We'll probably find out Monday. Then they'll FAQ it Tuesday.

I think they actually scale up better than most in the larger games. The more units you have, the more shots they get. The missile turrets start going down in value though sure. Irony of Irony their hard counter is probably the heavy tank, but they're in such a bad spot right. Indirect Artillery might help. That Air Dropped Bjorn the Fell Handed and some TH/SS Wolf Guard. Even in Death I still Gravchuuuuuuuuuuuuuute. Two Marine armies doing this, oh my god the center would be a blood bath.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can you set up a fortification in a ruins? Does it get cover? We may get a FAQ just for fortification. And the rules forum is going to be lit for a while.

The Errata GW made to the fortification rules really hampers their deployment. You can't set them up with 3" of other non-hill terrain, and any that can't be deployed are just destroyed.

With how much the bunkers cost pts-wise each... you're risking losing a bunch of points if your deployment zone is tightly packed with terrain.

Characters would be ineligible targets if they are under the protections of look out sir. Snipers etc get a special rule to ignore it, the bunker does not.

I think its a weird one. For a game all about movement and scoring objectives, there are obvious downsides to a model which can't move. On the other hand, I think it potentially just invalidates certain MSU builds - especially at a more casual setting, where tables may completely not be choked with LOS blocking terrain. If you can take 3, a genuine MSU list might be quite mangled after a turn.

BS4+ might reduce things a bit - but at least from a quick skim, since it isn't a servitor or beast, nothing stops you make it Dark Angels, and since it can't move, getting that +1 to hit. Also turn 1, you'd get the extra point of AP from doctrines.

(As said, skimming via internet here, so if this is explictly prevented, don't blame me for missing it.)

T8, 3+, 14 wound's weirdly *isn't that* survivable these days, but for 175 points I think its fair. Better for instance than the more expensive Gladiators. So really its just a calculation of how many heavy bolters you think you should get for the points. Which I should probably be able to calculate, but its hard given the lower BS. I think if you are shooting 5-6 times then its reasonable, getting overcosted once below 4, exceptional if higher.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
You can't set them up with 3" of other non-hill terrain, and any that can't be deployed are just destroyed.

That's what I was missing, still there usually isn't that much terrain around here. Judging by the terrain the include in the starter set they don't expect much elsewhere either.

Breton wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
You can't set them up with 3" of other non-hill terrain, and any that can't be deployed are just destroyed.

That's what I was missing, still there usually isn't that much terrain around here. Judging by the terrain the include in the starter set they don't expect much elsewhere either.

Then you’re playing on planet bowling ball. GW makes it abundantly clear how much terrain they recommend in the BRB, and the starter sets have nowhere near that amount.

Sterling191 wrote:


Then you’re playing on planet bowling ball. GW makes it abundantly clear how much terrain they recommend in the BRB, and the starter sets have nowhere near that amount.

Its not a bowling ball but not that tight. Plus even GW suggests one piece per 12x12 square. The bunker only looks to be about 6x6.

Breton wrote:So, what are the chances that the new Smoke Screen strategem loyalists got that gives vehicles with smoke launchers -1 to be hit will be given to vehicles in other codexes and other books with smoke launchers? I can definitely think of some vehicles in my army that I would love to use it on.

6"x6" with a 3" clearance is 9"x9". If the terrains pieces are put EXACTLY in the center of those 12" square areas you're essentially already fethed: anything larger than 3" will effectively stop your bunker deployment in that table section. With a more liberal placement however you can be probably have an easier day.

I still think you can find a 9"x9" suitable area in your deployment zone (maybe even two: three I think is borderline impossible).
At the same time, you're basically deploying as the board dictate without any real alternative plan. Probably most of the time the bunker will be in a marginal position without so much use.

Breton wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:


Then you’re playing on planet bowling ball. GW makes it abundantly clear how much terrain they recommend in the BRB, and the starter sets have nowhere near that amount.

Its not a bowling ball but not that tight. Plus even GW suggests one piece per 12x12 square. The bunker only looks to be about 6x6.

Ah pleasantly small...

...looks at sisters's sanctum that is more like　8"x8". I stopped using sanctum with that. Too big area needed to risk it