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Hey all.

I've been out of the hobby since the end of 5th edition and I've just got back into the hobby with some friends, I'm just enjoying painting and assembling the models again and I've decided to get a new army to put together. I've bought the space wolves primaris starter collection and some wolf guard terminators. I was wondering what the best units or army lists for 9th would be. Just looking to play with friends when able not looking for competitive. I do buy stuff because it looks cool though.

Thanks for any replies.

Well, anything that's said here now is of course subject to the fact that the Space Wolves supplement is not too far away and may change things. However... having just had the new Marine Codex drop, and for what I think is the first time ever the Space Wolves being included in that, there are some things that are almost guaranteed.

The big one that springs to mind is that your infantry units are all very likely to keep Shock Assault to go with their new Chapter Tactic - that's +1 Attack and +1 to hit if they charge, are charged, or perform Heroic Intervention (and the Chapter Tactic lets normal units perform Interventions now too). For Wolves that's big news. Grey Hunters and Intercessors (particularly the new Assault Intercessors) stand to benefit from this most - they're durable Troops units that are comfortable sitting on objectives and are going to be difficult to shift as a result.
But aside from that, it also means you stand to do well by taking melee units in general - most of the downside of melee units comes in missing the charge and getting charged as a result, but Wolves don't suffer nearly as much from that.

Some changes to the Wolves' allowed units that you need to know - everything in the new Codex is now available, with the exception of Apothecaries, Sternguard, Vanguard, and the old 3 standard squads (Assault, Devastator, Tactical - no doubt the supplement will cover Blood Claws, Long Fangs and Grey Hunters instead).
Technically that means they can take Chaplains right now, and those Chaplains become Wolf Priests as a result - but as of right now, they don't have their traditional Apothecary dual-role. Because of that I wouldn't rush out and get any just yet, wait and see what the supplement brings.

As far as stuff looking cool goes - you can have a scour of pretty much all the Marine units, bar the exceptions above, and see what you like the look of!

I'd buy a space wolves start collecting box if you can get it. tht'll give you a wolf lord, a squad of TWC (who are looking VEEEEERY good assuming our supplement is in line with the index) and a squad of grey hunters or blood claws.

WULFEN. Seriously they pretty much conquer anything in the game, especially backed up with Run Priests. Also Ragnar.

I'm not actually so sure getting TWC or Wulfen is a great idea right now. Those, you might want to wait for the supplement for, to see how they shake out.
...of course, if you want them because you love the models, then go for it! ...although I'm not sure even Russ could love those awful Wulfen things...

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
WULFEN. Seriously they pretty much conquer anything in the game, especially backed up with Run Priests. Also Ragnar.

actually wulfen got hit with the nerf bat kinda hard, they're still decent but they're not OMG amazing

When you say they got nerfed, what are we talking here? Less attacks, no 3++, reduced thunder hammer damage? The Storm shield is still just as good in a unit, and the Thunder hammer still does better damage than a Custodes Axe....

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
When you say they got nerfed, what are we talking here? Less attacks, no 3++, reduced thunder hammer damage? The Storm shield is still just as good in a unit, and the Thunder hammer still does better damage than a Custodes Axe....

Well, lets compare:
Gained:
+1" movement
Toughness 5.
always treated as in assault doctrine (if army can benefit from Doctrines) and always gain +1 attack as if they charged (from Shock Assault)

Lost:
advance and charge
Lost Curse (Kill) (nearby units get +1 attack)
Death Frenzy does nothing if the model already fought this phase
Unit can't perform actions at all

Weapons lost-
great frost axe went from d3 to 2 damage, and lost the +1 attack on the charge ability
thunder hammer lost a point of AP
stormshield went to 4++, but raises model's save rolls by 1.

Same, but renamed
Curse of the Wulfen (Hunt) became an Aura called Wulfen Howl, but it does roughly the same thing. (reroll charges, but they don't have to be failed)


Losing advance and charge is pretty huge (among other abilities), but they actually went down a few points.
The real question is the state of these temporary index replacements. Do they reflect the final supplement, or is this just quick nonsense that won't last.

Wulfen also lost their 5+++. Wulfen are looking pretty bad right now to me. Sure they still kill things reasonably well. But their survivability tanked hard. The buffs barely offset the loss of Death Frenzy imo (yes its there, but now its garbage).

TWC are on the other hand excellent in the Index.

Dreads are also pretty good for their points I think.

Well, while everyone else argues about your special units, I'll suggest you buy some of your basics. Get yourself some troops, get yourself some HQ's. One of the Starter Sets will be a big help, or an Indomitus Box if you can find one.

Assault Intercessors will play a lot like your Grey Hunters. They don't have a bolter, but their pistol is 18", and they still have the chainsword. The Captain, Lieutenant and Blade Guard Veterans are good, not cost prohibitive, and the BGV will get the Wolf Guard keyword.

Get stuff in the new SM Codex that isn't prohibited for SW.

Close Combat has changed a lot since you last played. Bonus Attacks are not rare, but you have to work for them.

The new Matched Play missions are very objective oriented, involving getting on the objective and scoring at the start of your next turn. Close Combat is the best way to do that, as you can clear/claim it on your turn or their turn and score on your next, while shooting you have to move on your turn and miss that scoring potentially.

I have been laughing ever since someone mentioned Air Dropping Bjorn the Fell Handed from a Storm Raven. I keep hearing that Dawn of War Dread voice saying "Even in Death I still para/grav -chute with "chute" getting that long fade away effect. it makes me laugh. I'm easily entertained at times. (You theoretically get the SM aircraft now and it can transport an old Dread. (Marines are now split between Primaris and "old" models. Only a couple FW models can transport both and even then it's an either/or situation.

Ragnar is now Primaris.

With your start collecting kit: If you haven't already - think about making the Aggressors Dakka not Flame. 18" is better than 12" and 6+D6 (average 9.5) is better than 2D6 (Average 7)

As near as I can tell "Battle Leader" is the SW name for Lieutenant. He pairs well with a Captain or Wolf Lord for a second HQ (Like Ragnar, the Blade Guard captain, etc if you want to go Full Primaris.)

Most of the old school Marine stuff has - not a direct replacement - but a similar model in the Primaris line you can go all one or the other, or you can mix and match.

Primaris are still missing a Jump Pack Fight unit, and Aircraft. Technically they're also still missing a Rhino. Their base chassis transport is more of a Razorback.

For the last few years "old" Marines were a distant second to Primaris in points per value in all but a few units. They just jumped up to 2W like Primaris, but they did not jump up extra attacks i.e. they're still not EQUAL but they're pretty close and their customization is frequently more of a point in their favor than the +1A base. I mix and Matched before, I'll do so even more now, but even more so nobody is forced to use one or the other if they don't want to.

Bjorn is likely to be VERY beefy. He gets the new Duty Eternal ability for Dreads, plus his Tenacity (at least so far) plus the Captain rites all the time, while most Dreads have to pay a resource called CP for it once per turn.

Terminators just got a pretty nice boost.

Because of that Objective Based thing, not that Wolves did this - you want to be careful of doing bare minimum troops with a bunch of toys and bells and whistles.

10 Terminators/Wolfguard on an objective will be murder to clear and claim the objective for your opponent, but even one Grot gets to claim the objective while your wolf guard stand around with their bolter in their hands. So don't overly focus on Objective Secured (Your troop units get it in Battle Forged (normal) Army lists, but don't forget about it either.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
WULFEN. Seriously they pretty much conquer anything in the game, especially backed up with Run Priests. Also Ragnar.

Wulfen are garbage lol.

Can we talk about the Cons of TWC? I mean, first off, you are taking what is (by many( viewed as the dumbest model since the Dread Knight baby carrier.

The cons for TWC are that they a freaking AWSOME looking. At least in my mind. I kutbashed some with green stuff back in the day and loves them. Looking at them now I see they are quite bad.

I coverted one from a metal khorn jugernaught that stil holds on. I have 4 unasembeled models I want to assemble as well. (One is canis, but with a misprint on the finecast.)

What is good about them non visually aethsetically (and besides the point that I own them?) The thing that kept them back was the bad compareson to smashcaptain for characters and wolfen for groups. Now they have movement 10 and can charge after moving, so that sorts up their slowproblem. Wulfen also got worse, so they are now much more comperable. They are T5, a good thing, and they went up to 4 wounds. While that does not matter for D2 it matters a lott for D3 weapons (and D1.) They are quite fearly priced. They have som stratagem suport, they are OK.

The big base can be a con, but also a pro when it comes to body blocking objectives.

Wulfen used to be these misiles you unleashed and knew they would demand an awnser (and sometimes stil get the job done.) TWC fill that role now.

We have to wait and see. It can be both TWC and Wulfen will change in the actual codex. And some people think wulfen are stil worth while.

Regarding the original subject of the thread. The codex seems feraly balanced you can pretty much play anything you want. Things that where consiered to powerfull got a nerf and vice versa. All firstborn marines got 2 wounds, and blood claws have some good rules. Just buy what you want, althought you can be budget concoient.

Isn't the best way to start SW buying indomitus sm half, two start collecting primaris space wolfs and two of dreadnoughts?

Whatever you buy, always consider if you like the models or not. Their power can rise or fall, but the aeshetic will always be there.

You should also think about if you want to go firstborne or avoid them. There are many kits out there, so focusing on only a part of the range might be easier for a beginner.

If you like the look of the Thunderwulf cavalry you should get 1 SW Start Collecting box even if you don't want to run fistborne on foot. There are so many useful bits and weapons in this kit to wolf up half a company of Primaris.

If you can't get the Indomitus box or models, look at the other starters. They are also good value, especially if you can sell or trade the Necrons.

edit: nothing in the SW portfolio is currently garbage and everything is totally valid for friendly games, even the heavily nerfed Wulfen. So if you like the look of them, get them. If not, you won't miss much.

Hey.

Thanks for all the replies. I've bought some thunderwolves for now. (Because I do think they look cool). I'm just going to stick with these units until the new codex comes out, I've bought some green stuff and some base terrain so I'm just going to take my time with them.

I have another question. For my wolf guard terminator pack leader. Is there any set weapons it has to have or can I do like power sword and power axe/hammer.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we talk about the Cons of TWC? I mean, first off, you are taking what is (by many( viewed as the dumbest model since the Dread Knight baby carrier.

nobody intelligent cares what some donkey-cave on 4chan thinks about their mini, if they like the mini they like the mini. if they don't well.. they're intelligent eneugh to decide that without being told "LOL HERDERP SOME PEOPLE THINK IT LOOKS BAD!"

TheRealKindness wrote:
Hey.

Thanks for all the replies. I've bought some thunderwolves for now. (Because I do think they look cool). I'm just going to stick with these units until the new codex comes out, I've bought some green stuff and some base terrain so I'm just going to take my time with them.

I have another question. For my wolf guard terminator pack leader. Is there any set weapons it has to have or can I do like power sword and power axe/hammer.

WRT to the sergeant, yeah you can, but you shouldn't. Don't dual wield melee weapons, you literally get no rules benefit out of it. Do either weapon+gun or weapon+shield.



As for Wulfen and Thundercav, I definitely don't think wulfen are bad per se. Outflank them, then charge with them and kill some stuff. Compared to Terminators, I think they stack up pretty well. They're more destructive in melee and can charge off the outflank better, and are always in assault doctrine compared with Terminators who are tougher and have guns.

As for Thundercav, I'm pretty stoked about them, I think they look really good. I'm just not sure how to load mine out.

TheRealKindness wrote:
Hey.

Thanks for all the replies. I've bought some thunderwolves for now. (Because I do think they look cool). I'm just going to stick with these units until the new codex comes out, I've bought some green stuff and some base terrain so I'm just going to take my time with them.

I have another question. For my wolf guard terminator pack leader. Is there any set weapons it has to have or can I do like power sword and power axe/hammer.

Welcome to the community and the hobby. Sounds like you got yourself a nice little starter army. I would just keep building and painting and once you can field what you have, the new supplement/codex should be out so you can decide what you want to add and what your army might be lacking.

Stopping before you get overwhelmed will also help you not feel bruned out IMO so it can only be a good thing.
Getting in the habit of not buying everything "right now!" can only be a good thing for your mind and your wallet

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

TheRealKindness wrote:
I have another question. For my wolf guard terminator pack leader. Is there any set weapons it has to have or can I do like power sword and power axe/hammer.

WRT to the sergeant, yeah you can, but you shouldn't. Don't dual wield melee weapons, you literally get no rules benefit out of it. Do either weapon+gun or weapon+shield.

There is, perhaps, one exception to this (although it's still debatable whether it's worth doing). Weapons that give you free attacks just for wielding them do accumulate - so for the Termies, that means double lightning claws gives +2 Attacks instead of just one.

TheRealKindness wrote:
Hey.

Thanks for all the replies. I've bought some thunderwolves for now. (Because I do think they look cool). I'm just going to stick with these units until the new codex comes out, I've bought some green stuff and some base terrain so I'm just going to take my time with them.

I have another question. For my wolf guard terminator pack leader. Is there any set weapons it has to have or can I do like power sword and power axe/hammer.

The Index should tell you what a Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor can have.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we talk about the Cons of TWC? I mean, first off, you are taking what is (by many( viewed as the dumbest model since the Dread Knight baby carrier.

A lot of people hate the look (and the lore) of primaris and yet they did sold a lot. Even the mario kart will likely sell a lot.

I started a SW army mostly because of TWC, IMHO they're by far the best SM models ever produced by GW.