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Charging - To successfully make a charge, you have to finish within 1" of enemy models. Once charge is complete, 3" pile in. "Front row" guys need to be within 1/2" of an enemy model to swing. "Second row" guys need to be within 1/2" of the front row guys. I may be butchering this trying to explain it.

Pistols can be shot while in engagement range, but only the unit(s) your locked in with? So, I get charged and survive the round. On my following turn, I can shoot at the unit I am still fighting (with pistols only) and then go into the charge / fight phase?

Grenades - can they still be used in the fight phase? Or are they strictly just for throwing these days? I couldn't find a rule allowing it (like you could in 5th).

Sequence of fighting - Its my turn. There are no units with special rules to fight first. After rolling for all the units that charged, we start alternating units that are left that have not swung. Who picks the first unit AFTER the charging units are done?

Khorne units - units that get to fight twice... how does that interact when they charge? Do they roll on the charge, other unit swings back, then swing again OR do they swing twice first, then the defenders roll? If it was not a charging unit, do you just get to pick them twice per the normal alternating method.

Cover and AP- for armor saves. A unit is in light cover, getting a +1 to their saving throw. The gun shooting is AP -3. So, if I am in power armor with a 3+ save, this would be a 5+ save? AP -4 against power armor in the open is dead with no save?

Smite - can be cast on a unit that is in engagement range of enemy units? It is the closest unit to the psyker....?

Litanies of Hate - this is a 6" bubble around the chaplain that is always on. It is not active ONLY when the unit charged?

Pistol and CCW - does this still give an extra attack? (I am returning to the game from 5th/6th ed era)

Bikers and rapid fire - I could not locate it, but they get the rapid fire bonus all the time? They are rapid fire 2.... so 4 shots? If the biker also has a plasma gun, do they pick the weapon to fire, or do they get to shoot them all?

Thanks in advance.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Charging - To successfully make a charge, you have to finish within 1" of enemy models. Once charge is complete, 3" pile in. "Front row" guys need to be within 1/2" of an enemy model to swing. "Second row" guys need to be within 1/2" of the front row guys. I may be butchering this trying to explain it.

You're almost there. A model can fight if it's within 1" of the enemy, but a friendly can only fight 'through' it if it's within 1/2" of the enemy. To put it another way, if you're within 1" you can fight, but you need to be within 1/2" for another rank to fight through you.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Pistols can be shot while in engagement range, but only the unit(s) your locked in with? So, I get charged and survive the round. On my following turn, I can shoot at the unit I am still fighting (with pistols only) and then go into the charge / fight phase?

Yup.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Grenades - can they still be used in the fight phase? Or are they strictly just for throwing these days? I couldn't find a rule allowing it (like you could in 5th).

Strictly for throwing, unless you have an ability that says they can be used in melee.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Sequence of fighting - Its my turn. There are no units with special rules to fight first. After rolling for all the units that charged, we start alternating units that are left that have not swung. Who picks the first unit AFTER the charging units are done?

The player whose turn it isn't. So if it's your turn, then your opponent picks the first non-charger to fight.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Khorne units - units that get to fight twice... how does that interact when they charge? Do they roll on the charge, other unit swings back, then swing again OR do they swing twice first, then the defenders roll? If it was not a charging unit, do you just get to pick them twice per the normal alternating method.

There are a couple of different implementations of fight-twice. If it says you double their attacks or may attack twice when selected to fight, then you just roll double. If it says at the end of the phase they may be selected to fight again, then it happens at the end of the phase. Follow the specific wording for the unit.

Note also that if a unit can be selected to fight again, it gets to perform pile-in/consolidate moves again, but if it charged can still only fight units that were chosen as charge targets. So no charge unit A, kill unit A, fight again, pile into unit B, kill unit B. You can pile in, but are not allowed to attack- and now unit B is eligible to swing at you, if it hasn't already fought.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Cover and AP- for armor saves. A unit is in light cover, getting a +1 to their saving throw. The gun shooting is AP -3. So, if I am in power armor with a 3+ save, this would be a 5+ save? AP -4 against power armor in the open is dead with no save?

Correct.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Smite - can be cast on a unit that is in engagement range of enemy units? It is the closest unit to the psyker....?

Yes.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Litanies of Hate - this is a 6" bubble around the chaplain that is always on. It is not active ONLY when the unit charged?

I'll defer on this one, not my army.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Pistol and CCW - does this still give an extra attack? (I am returning to the game from 5th/6th ed era)

No, but many close combat weapons that you can pair with a pistol, like chainswords, will innately provide an extra attack on their profile. The only advantage of the pistol is getting to shoot with it.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Bikers and rapid fire - I could not locate it, but they get the rapid fire bonus all the time? They are rapid fire 2.... so 4 shots? If the biker also has a plasma gun, do they pick the weapon to fire, or do they get to shoot them all?

Bikes aren't any different from infantry for the purpose of rapid fire. However, if you're Space Marines, bikes get the effect of Bolter Discipline all the time, so your bolters always get to rapid fire (but not your plasma guns). There are no longer limits on how many weapons can be fired by one model, so if you have a single model carrying three guns, they can shoot all of them. The one exception is that you cannot fire Pistol weapons unless you only fire Pistol weapons for that model. Bolter + plasma gun is fine, bolt pistol + plasma pistol is fine, bolter + bolt pistol is not allowed.

Also, is this sequence right for charges.
Declare charge target(s)
Roll dice for charge
Move models, they have to get within 1" of enemy models to make it a successful charge. Rinse and repeat for all charges. Once all charges are done, select a unit to roll for.
Make pile in moves.
Resolve who can or cannot fight after pile in /heroic intervention moves.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Also, is this sequence right for charges.
Declare charge target(s)
Roll dice for charge
Move models, they have to get within 1" of enemy models to make it a successful charge. Rinse and repeat for all charges. Once all charges are done, select a unit to roll for.
Make pile in moves.
Resolve who can or cannot fight after pile in /heroic intervention moves.

nope

Charge phase :
Declare charge targets,
Ask if your opponent wants to over watch.
overwatch
roll charge dice,
move models if they can get within engagement range of all declared targets.
If they can = successful charge.

repeat

After all charges are declared and finished, do heroic interventions


Fight phase:
Resolve fight sequences for charges and fight first models who are currently in engagement range of any enemy(current turn player first)

Fight sequence =
pile in
declare attacks
resolve attacks
consolidate

repeat separately for each unit.

Resolve fight sequence for non charges (i.e. anyone currently in engagement range with any enemy) (non-current turn player first)

Fight sequence as above
repeat separately for each unit.


Fight phase and charge phase are different phases.

pile in's and consolidates happen ONLY when the unit has its fight sequence.

I am not holding the 9ed big book (other room) but in eighth, smite was a "closest unit IN LINE OF SIGHT" targetting spell, which could be occasionally important. Spells like malstrom didn't suffer that pair of liabilities, and thus, you could snipe even without LOS at characters with them, while smite spam often got hung up in cheap screens.

A couple of things here - I'm agreed with most of what's already been said.

Litanies of Hate - sounds like you might not have the latest Marine Codex (it DID only get released two days ago), the new version of this pays absolutely no attention to whether anyone charged or not.
Charging - a slight clarification to Type40's sequence, the order of events is correct but it's important to note that you only need to get one model within engagement range of each declared target (and one charging model can cover more than one declared unit this way).
As long as you can get that one model in range? The other models can move wherever they like as long as they stay in coherency, and end that move closer to the targets. That means, if you roll far enough on the charge move, you can pincer round to the side and even back, and potentially leave room for other units to charge too.
You can also purposely limit the number of models that end in Engagement Range, if you don't necessarily want your unit to mince the target in one go and be sat out in the open as a result - though pile-ins and fall-backs do a lot to counter this tactic's viability.

 Type40 wrote:

Fight phase:
Resolve fight sequences for charges and fight first models who are currently in engagement range of any enemy(current turn player first)

Fight sequence =
pile in
declare attacks
resolve attacks
consolidate

repeat separately for each unit.

Resolve fight sequence for non charges (i.e. anyone currently in engagement range with any enemy) (non-current turn player first)

I think that's wrong.

In the fight phase you alternate selecting a unit to fight with starting with the "non-current turn player". So if they had a unit who had some "fight first" ability they would get to be the first unit to fight.

And you don't start alternating again once the charging units have fought you just keep on alternating. If there are no special "fight first" abilities in play then that does mean that the first non-charging unit to fight will be from the "non-current turn player". However if there are abilities in play then it's quite possible that the first non-charging unit to fight will be chosen by the "current turn player".

Just start with the "non-current turn player" and keep alternating picking units with the restriction that a unit that didn't charge (or that doesn't have a "fight first" ability) can't be chosen while there are units that did charge but have not fought, it's as simple as that.

 Uther wrote:

 Type40 wrote:

Fight phase:
Resolve fight sequences for charges and fight first models who are currently in engagement range of any enemy(current turn player first)

Fight sequence =
pile in
declare attacks
resolve attacks
consolidate

repeat separately for each unit.

Resolve fight sequence for non charges (i.e. anyone currently in engagement range with any enemy) (non-current turn player first)

I think that's wrong.

In the fight phase you alternate selecting a unit to fight with starting with the "non-current turn player". So if they had a unit who had some "fight first" ability they would get to be the first unit to fight.

And you don't start alternating again once the charging units have fought you just keep on alternating. If there are no special "fight first" abilities in play then that does mean that the first non-charging unit to fight will be from the "non-current turn player". However if there are abilities in play then it's quite possible that the first non-charging unit to fight will be chosen by the "current turn player".

Just start with the "non-current turn player" and keep alternating picking units with the restriction that a unit that didn't charge (or that doesn't have a "fight first" ability) can't be chosen while there are units that did charge but have not fought, it's as simple as that.

up until the new SM codex (just opened it right now) fight first has always specified current turn player fights first in order (except custodies stratagem) ....
So,,, I guess marines fight first first but older abilities from other armies do not ? ,,,, i dunno ?

 Type40 wrote:
up until the new SM codex (just opened it right now) fight first has always specified current turn player fights first in order (except custodies stratagem) ....
So,,, I guess marines fight first first but older abilities from other armies do not ? ,,,, i dunno ?

Have a look at the "always fight first/last" rare rule in the rulebook, that seems to actually codify what you've said for all existing abilities, you start alternating with the player whose turn it is. So unless, as you seem to be saying is the case, newer abilities override and clarify that then in this case you start alternating with the player who's turn it is.

But the point about the first non-charging (and non special ability units) being chosen by whoever's turn it is to select next rather than it always being the "non-current turn player" seems to stand.

You can tell I'm Nurgle and/or Death Guard, we don't seem to get fight first so that part just hasn't come up and under the rules of the fight phase.

Ah,,, yes, ok so it does work how I thought even if the new dex doesn't specify it.

I was about to go off about OP space marine powers XD.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Khorne units - units that get to fight twice... how does that interact when they charge? Do they roll on the charge, other unit swings back, then swing again OR do they swing twice first, then the defenders roll? If it was not a charging unit, do you just get to pick them twice per the normal alternating method.

Quick note on this: this exact question is covered in the rules appendix in the Core Book.

In short, think of each "activation" as if it were coming from a separate unit. So, if a Khorne Berzerker unit charges, it's like two units have charged, and so they get to fight twice before the enemy (unless the enemy interrupts).

 Cheex wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
Khorne units - units that get to fight twice... how does that interact when they charge? Do they roll on the charge, other unit swings back, then swing again OR do they swing twice first, then the defenders roll? If it was not a charging unit, do you just get to pick them twice per the normal alternating method.

Quick note on this: this exact question is covered in the rules appendix in the Core Book.

In short, think of each "activation" as if it were coming from a separate unit. So, if a Khorne Berzerker unit charges, it's like two units have charged, and so they get to fight twice before the enemy (unless the enemy interrupts).

Could you point me to a page number?
My biggest gripe with the new rule book is a lack of an index.

EDIT: Nevermind. Found it in the back. Thanks!

I didn't realize Charge phase and Fight phase were two separate phases. Now that I know that, it really helps delineate how this should play out. (I was moving my charge, then immediately piling in).

So, just so I am straight:

Declare my charges, make my rolls, and move the charge distance only. I need to end up with at least 1 model within 1" of the enemy model target unit. (Heroic interventions are done here, not in fight phase, yes?)
Once all my charge moves are done, move on to the fight phase.
Pick one unit at a time, do my pile in, determine who can and who can't fight. Front row need to be within 1", second row need to be within 1/2" of a guy who is no more than 1/2".
After they swing, they consolidate 3", pick the next unit to activate.
In the case of Khorne, they rinse and repeat the line above as they get to fight twice per phase (wow, are they brutal).

Also, just to clarify since we are talking about this:
Khorne berzerkers declare a charge against unit A. They make their charge move (and cannot end up in engagement range of target B who is next to A). When they are activated, they can pile in (and get into engagement range of targets B). However, they cannot swing at B because they did not declare B a target of the charge. They cannot swing at B on the activation of the second Fight Again either, but moving into range lets B swing back at the Khorne unit?

All absolutely correct. Only note I can add, is that a fair few units now have the ability to fight twice, so watch out for that! Death Company and Assault Intercessors are the examples that spring to mind.

Also, just to point out because it was unclear.

Heroic interventions do not happen until ALL charges are resolved.

and in case it wasnt obvious (because I have seen this misinterpretation a lot) you can heroicly intervene towards ANY enemy unit within heroic intervention range not just towards untis that charged.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the bezerkers dont fight twice in a row... they are treated as two units for selection in the fight phase.

so if you charged two units you can do this order

zerkers,
unit B
zerkers again

and if they didnt charge.

Zerkers,
enemy unit
Zerkers again.

Thanks for all the clarifications! This edition is significantly different than 5th and 6th. I kind of like where they took it.

Granted, this first game was a patrol on a 44" by 30" map. Do most games turn into a blender in the middle? I was also told, don't get too attached to units in this edition, as everything dies. Does that seem to be the case?

 Green is Best! wrote:
Thanks for all the clarifications! This edition is significantly different than 5th and 6th. I kind of like where they took it.

Granted, this first game was a patrol on a 44" by 30" map. Do most games turn into a blender in the middle? I was also told, don't get too attached to units in this edition, as everything dies. Does that seem to be the case?

Pretty much, yes. The Smaller battlefields and the "buffs" (/s) to melee means everything tends to clump together and turn into a bloodbath.

hmm,

I have noticed the opposite on the bigger tables...
A lot more need to spread out to get objectives then in 8th... but on the tiny board,,, ya its just a big melee fest in the centre.

1. If my unit X charge enemy unit A and stays after charge more than 1" from enemy unit B - can my unit pile in also into unit B? (without atacking them this turn as B was not a target of charge). Can't find this explained in rulebook.
2. Who consolidates first?

Yes, you can pile in to units you didn't charge.

Consolidate moves are done immediately after a unit fights. So the unit that just fought consolidates, then another unit will fight while can then itself consolidate and so on.

1. Yes.
2. Every unit consolidates as part of it activation in the Fight phase. When a unit is selected it Piles-In, Attacks, and Consolidates before the next unit is selected.