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Oh, okay. I was alarmed that the sculptor might be retiring or something like that.

Yeah seems just a rebranding of the Nickstarters. Nothing to sweat. Hopefully it will include a nice deal on the plastics.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Any idea why it's the last?

For some reason the rest of the text was cut off (twice even, I guess some error on dakka?). Here it is:
''Why the last one?? I think we might have run the Kickstarter/ Nickstarter joke too long. So, although this is the last ever 'Nickstarter', we'll still run pre-order programs and specials for future projects. Might even come up with something better... ''

There's probably an emoji or similar in the text. Dakka will delete it and everything after it in a 'paste' if it's not something that it can handle (took me an age to figure that out), just delete the emoji from the text before you post and all will be well

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Any idea why it's the last?

For some reason the rest of the text was cut off (twice even, I guess some error on dakka?). Here it is:
''Why the last one?? I think we might have run the Kickstarter/ Nickstarter joke too long. So, although this is the last ever 'Nickstarter', we'll still run pre-order programs and specials for future projects. Might even come up with something better... ''

There's probably an emoji or similar in the text. Dakka will delete it and everything after it in a 'paste' if it's not something that it can handle (took me an age to figure that out), just delete the emoji from the text before you post and all will be well

You are correct, there was an emoji there. I will remember it for the future. Thanks

May hop onto this all, how do these Nickstarters work?

 BrookM wrote:
May hop onto this all, how do these Nickstarters work?

Preorders with a discount.

 BrookM wrote:
May hop onto this all, how do these Nickstarters work?

As Kid Kyoto has already stated "Preorders with a discount."

However, they usually have tiers to choose from, where the lowest tier gets you just the latest product, and the highest Everything. There is usually a preorder bonus figure as well that applies to every tier if you order before "d/m/y". If the Nickstarter does very well, there may be two or three bonuses. IIRC, when the Frostgrave Wizards II set came out (the female PYO set), one got a free female Thaumaturge (the one on the cover of Perilous Dark), a set of resin cloaks, a cauldron, and broomstick. So you are better off preordering from Northstar when they run a Nickstarter.

The first, extreeeeemely long winded comparison of Frostgrave and Stargrave

https://youtu.be/Om0UDma_I_s

Ugh. Why a YouTube video? Would rather prefer something I can read.

Dunno. He doesn't even have ads. Must just like the sound of his own voice.

6 1/2 minutes in, and he's finally done explaining what a "re-skin" is and that both books have blue on the cover...

Since Stargrave will be figure-agnostic, here's a set of minis I'm tempted by: Rogue Synth Squad.

In the end I could not stomach the video but the bits I gleaned when fast forwarding sound like there's a good balance of keeping what works and giving a different play experience.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
In the end I could not stomach the video but the bits I gleaned when fast forwarding sound like there's a good balance of keeping what works and giving a different play experience.

I suffered through the whole thing, though I got bored a few times and got up and did some light housework. (I think he explained how Frostgrave apprentices work three separate times in a video he says is for people with Frostgrave 2e wondering how Stargrave compares/contrasts.)

Basically, you're right. There's not a lot of crunchy details in here. I'll list what I could remember and sift out of the dross below, but the overall gist seems to be that Stargrave benefits from the good changes in FG 2e, it's still recognizably the same core set of rules, but there are numerous changes and major adaptations to better fit the sci-fi concept and setting. Stargrave deviates from Frostgrave 2e more that Ghost Archipelago does did from Frostgrave 1e, in ways that makes me (a fan of Joe's rules) even more excited about Stargrave. I just wish I could have read this guys bullet point notes instead of him rambling about them for an hour.

Things I gleaned (not an exhaustive list - I may have gotten bored and tuned some out):

Backgrounds are kind of like a wizard's school - you get most of your powers from your background (3-4 at character creation), but the captain and first mate can have different backgrounds. Some powers are shared between backgrounds (both roboticist and techie have Drone as a core power, for example).

Powers cost 0-2 health to use, depending on the power.

Captains are considered to start at level 15, and first mates at level 0. Advancements are along a chart, though some levels offer choices between specific options at that level. There's only two 'Additional Power' rank ups in the chart. There's also some sort of rule about the captain leaving the first mate too far behind in levels, but it wasn't made clear what that rule is or does.

Crew are split between common and specialists, just like Frostgrave 2e. It was implied there will be free thug/thief equivalents, but I don't remember it called out specifically.

Scenarios that focus on a specific type of terrain (like a spaceport) give you permission to substitute any thematic similar terrain you may have. (Which I know some people need.) If you spend your first run of games exploring ancient ruins on a snow planet, that's fine.

There's 10 scenarios in the book.

There are grenades and flamethrowers, which use templates.

Treasure tokens are called Loot, and are split between Data and Physical Loot. Physical Loot has to be carried like FG tokens, Data Loot does not. All Loot is locked, and requires some sort of roll to access and claim.

Critical Hit rules, Wounded rules, and rolling four items available on the market are not optional rules in Stargrave and are considered part of the basic ruleset.

There's separate AI baddie charts for randomly appearing creatures and sapient enemies.

That's all the meaty bits I remember. If you're satisfied with that, I've just saved you 58 painful minutes. If you feel like suffering through to see if you can sift out any gold flecks I missed out of the Tabletop Engineer's stream of consciousness, I wish you good luck and godspeed.

Thank you, Psychopomp. I will not make a second attempt, surely GMG's video can't be far away.

Also thanks for the recap, hopefully another influencer will be along sooner or later with a better rundown of things.

Looking forward to more reviews on this. I don't know if the two games scratch a similar itch but I'm considering both Stargrave and Star Breach (assuming both get solo play just in case).

And someone on FB added

The weapons are very generic. You get "pistol", "carbine" and "shotgun", but they can be slug throwers, plasma guns or lasers, whatever you like.

Are the game mechanics noticeably different from Frostgrave? I know there is a limited amount of granularity in a game of this type but one of my scifi pet peeves is when firing an advanced rotary laser pew pew gun is the same and letting an arrow loose from your bow. It's one of the reasons I'm ambivalent mechanically to Starfinder and it's (admittedly purpose built) Pathfinder in Spaaaaaace! gameplay.

 warboss wrote:
Are the game mechanics noticeably different from Frostgrave? I know there is a limited amount of granularity in a game of this type but one of my scifi pet peeves is when firing an advanced rotary laser pew pew gun is the same and letting an arrow loose from your bow. It's one of the reasons I'm ambivalent mechanically to Starfinder and it's (admittedly purpose built) Pathfinder in Spaaaaaace! gameplay.

Have you tried Zone Raiders? It has all the toys like portal guns and shoot-through-walls guns and hit-everything-in-a-line guns and so on.

Here's another video, this time with a flip-through of the actual book in the first part:




I can't recommend listening to the insightful commentary on this one, either (the part where he flips through the scenarios just reciting the scenario names and calling out donors in the chat was especially...something), but this is a great video if you pause and use the slider to find the best views on page turns. There's a very nice stretch where you can clearly read the crew soldiers and specialist tables to get an idea of what sort of models & equipment you might want to get ready!

Another one, and judging by the title (I am watching it now) that reviewer is not impressed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFPSfBbb24s

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Another one, and judging by the title (I am watching it now) that reviewer is not impressed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFPSfBbb24s

I have no idea what this guy was expecting, if he's angry that the sci-fi adaptation of Frostgrave is very similar to Frostgrave with some sci-fi elements.

He's trying to make the case that it's exactly the same as Frostgrave but with elements simply renamed, but I know just from the other videos that's not true. Expanded ranged weapon classes, a new class of armor, an entirely new list of loot types that aren't just reskinned magic items (though some probably are), every soldier having some form of ranged weapon, 10 entirely new scenarios (The Data Vault seems especially creative to me), two types of loot counter, locked loot counters requiring skill rolls, the secondary character being more like a captain than an apprentice, the freedom to classify any character or soldier as a robot...the list goes on.

This is akin to saying that, for example, 40K is exactly the same game as Warhammer Fantasy, just with names being changed to sci-fi stuff.

This fellow is entitled to his opinion, but I'm not obligated to place any value on it.

 Psychopomp wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Another one, and judging by the title (I am watching it now) that reviewer is not impressed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFPSfBbb24s

I have no idea what this guy was expecting, if he's angry that the sci-fi adaptation of Frostgrave is very similar to Frostgrave with some sci-fi elements.

He's trying to make the case that it's exactly the same as Frostgrave but with elements simply renamed, but I know just from the other videos that's not true. Expanded ranged weapon classes, a new class of armor, an entirely new list of loot types that aren't just reskinned magic items (though some probably are), every soldier having some form of ranged weapon, 10 entirely new scenarios (The Data Vault seems especially creative to me), two types of loot counter, locked loot counters requiring skill rolls, the secondary character being more like a captain than an apprentice, the freedom to classify any character or soldier as a robot...the list goes on.

This is akin to saying that, for example, 40K is exactly the same game as Warhammer Fantasy, just with names being changed to sci-fi stuff.

This fellow is entitled to his opinion, but I'm not obligated to place any value on it.

I guess he expected much more but yeah, if the game is called a Stargrave, and is made by an author of a Frostgrave, who is known to use basically the same system in his other games, then it should be obvious that there would be no drastic changes here as well.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I guess he expected much more but yeah, if the game is called a Stargrave, and is made by an author of a Frostgrave, who is known to use basically the same system in his other games, then it should be obvious that there would be no drastic changes here as well.

Also, the game is published by Osprey, who ever since they struck gold with Frostgrave, have been going back to that well over and over. Not that I'm criticizing that pattern, but Outraged Youtube Reviewer should have been smart enough to pick that up.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
I guess he expected much more but yeah, if the game is called a Stargrave, and is made by an author of a Frostgrave, who is known to use basically the same system in his other games, then it should be obvious that there would be no drastic changes here as well.

Also, the game is published by Osprey, who ever since they struck gold with Frostgrave, have been going back to that well over and over. Not that I'm criticizing that pattern, but Outraged Youtube Reviewer should have been smart enough to pick that up.

Well, in Osprey's defense they did not go "back to the well" with:

Gamma Wolves
Across a Deadly Field
Scrappers
Last Days
Ragnarok
Land of the Free
90% of the Osprey Wargaming Series

In fact, it is more Joe M. has gone back to the well.... which is fine as there are a lot of advantages for doing that.

Osprey went back to the well in how many publications have they done for Frostgrave, while the rest of those would be lucky to get a second print. The only other game they do that is likely to be even remotely known is Gaslands.

They've put out a few Ragnarok supplements, as well as Dracula's America.
Plus there's been a few books based on Mersey's "Rampant" engine, and I believe the scifi version, Xenos Rampant was due in the future from Osprey as well.

and

A Billion Suns by the chap that did Gaslands is just out (mini agnostic spaceship tabletop game) from them to

 Robert Facepalmer wrote:
Osprey went back to the well in how many publications have they done for Frostgrave, while the rest of those would be lucky to get a second print. The only other game they do that is likely to be even remotely known is Gaslands.

for profit publisher makes printing decisions based on what is profitable!

Film at 11!