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So rules for heroic intervention:

"2. HEROIC INTERVENTIONS
Your opponent can now select an eligible Character unit from their
army to perform a Heroic Intervention (see below). An eligible
Character unit is one that is not within Engagement Range of
any enemy units, but is within 3" horizontally and 5" vertically
of an enemy unit. After they have finished performing a Heroic
Intervention with a Character unit, they can then select another
eligible Character unit from their army to do so, and so on, until
they have done so with as many of their units as they wish. If your
opponent has no eligible Character units, the Charge phase ends.
No unit can perform more than one Heroic Intervention in
each enemy Charge phase. A unit can never perform a Heroic
Intervention in their own Charge phase. Once all of your opponent’s
eligible Character units have performed Heroic Interventions
that they want to, your Charge phase ends and you progress to the
Fight phase."

Now all space wolves units can heroic intervent. And for 1 cp the range can be increased to 6. Does this mean ny opponent always have to be over 6 away after he is done moving?

It says I can not do it in my turn, so no turbo boost bikes into a charge. But this is corect, no?

HI is performed at the end of the Charge phase, specifically the end of your opponent's Charge phase, not the Movement phase. You do not have the ability to Stooping Dive with your entire army.

 Niiai wrote:
Does this mean ny opponent always have to be over 6 away after he is done moving?

You're thinking about this the wrong way round. Heroic Intervention does nothing to change the nature of Engagement Range, which is still 1". So your opponent can move in exactly the same ways as before, Space Wolves do nothing to change your opponent's movement.
What the text means, is that you have to check your own units to see if they are already in Engagement Range of an enemy. If they are, for instance if they have just been successfully charged, then those units are not allowed to perform the Heroic Intervention.

It's best to think of Heroic Intervention as a special kind of charge, that (if you meet the requirements) you are allowed to do in your opponent's turn. It's worth noting though that it isn't actually a charge, so doesn't trigger any rules that rely on a charge unless they happen to mention Heroic Intervention as well.

Perhaps I am asking this wrongly. Leave out the space wolves for now.

If any enemy is within 3" og my characters aftet all charges are done they can heroic intervent. The enemy can just have done sloppy movement. No charges needed. And only during their turn, never my. And they can not be in engadgement range yet.

When combat comes. It goes charges and other first turn fighting. Then since it is my opponents turn it is I who brgin after that. Most likly the heroic intervent character.

Now if I am SW all my units can heroic intervent 3. Further, for a 1 cp stratagem I can exstend that range to 6.

Is this corect?

Yes, that's correct. If a unit finishes its move within 3" of a SW unit and doesn't itself charge, SW can HI into that unit. They can extend that to 6" on one unit with the stratagem. It's a very powerful board control ability.

Almost! Every individual thing in your last post is correct, except the timing.
As SW, your non-character units can perform Heroic Intervention at the same time as your characters.

Or to put it another way:

- Your opponent performs charges
- You perform all Heroic Interventions, characters and other SW
- Chargers and other units with "fight first" rules fight
- Other units then alternate fighting

What Super Ready said. It sounds super powerful (and it is to be frank), but you don't always want to do it since you are not hitting first like when charging. Be very careful when intervening into units or characters that can beat the crap out of your intervening unit/character. I lost Ragnar once to a SINGLE Skorpekh Destroyer because he couldn't fight first. I did royally whiff my invulnerable saves but that's another story.

But position yourself correctly on objectives and if enemy's weakish troops try to claim the objective you can just intervene and beat them up on your enemy's turn.

But if the unit I am heroic interweening into did not charge, I will in fact fight first, no?

Actinvations go things that go first first (charges and other rules that always fight first.)

After that the player who do not have the turn get to activate, and that would be heroic intervention, and then we go one after another. So if they say have a airplane 6" near a smash captain or skyclaws I can pile on it. Or if a transports, or bikes advance I can pile on them. Etc.

Or if they charge me I can do a buddy system.

But I have the rules down. No need to talk strategy here.

 Weazel wrote:
What Super Ready said. It sounds super powerful (and it is to be frank), but you don't always want to do it since you are not hitting first like when charging. Be very careful when intervening into units or characters that can beat the crap out of your intervening unit/character. I lost Ragnar once to a SINGLE Skorpekh Destroyer because he couldn't fight first. I did royally whiff my invulnerable saves but that's another story.

But position yourself correctly on objectives and if enemy's weakish troops try to claim the objective you can just intervene and beat them up on your enemy's turn.

This changed in 9th.
The players who's turn it is not gets the first activation... which means the first activation can be the unit that intervened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes the wolf ability is very strong

Yes if the unit you are intervening into didn't charge you get to activate before it (after all other chargers have fought). However I would still argue that you don't necessarily want to heroically intervene every time that it is possible. Main reasons to intervene are 1) enemy unit tries to contest an objective that you are holding, 2) enemy charges your unit and you want to bring another unit to assist in combat, 3) You are likely to wipe the enemy unit out in one combat phase, 4) enemy unit has potentially devastating overwatch.

Keep in mind that the next turn is yours and it can sometimes be beneficial to hold back to position yourself for a better charge (to get more guys to fight) on your turn and also possibly to soften up the target by shooting.

Nevertheless it is a very strong ability have at your disposal.

 Niiai wrote:
But if the unit I am heroic interweening into did not charge, I will in fact fight first, no?

Actinvations go things that go first first (charges and other rules that always fight first.)

After that the player who do not have the turn get to activate, and that would be heroic intervention, and then we go one after another. So if they say have a airplane 6" near a smash captain or skyclaws I can pile on it. Or if a transports, or bikes advance I can pile on them. Etc.

After the "fight first" and charge things have been dealt with the player with the turn just continues alternating it does not become "after that the player who do not have the turn get to activate." There is no "reset" in the alternating turns once the "fight first" and/or charging units have activated.

As an example it's your opponent's turn, there were no charges, you have two units in combat, one has a "fight first" ability and the other heroically intervened this turn.

You get to fight first with your "fight first", alternating continues and your opponent will pick a unit to fight with (which will be something that did not charge) and then you get to fight with your heroically intervening unit.

So sometimes that heroically intervening unit will fight last. Which might be a problem.

That's a very good point. If anything, having "fight first" on only one unit in the enemy's turn can actually be a downside since you're then forced to choose that unit to fight first.

I was wrong. In that case you where right.

How ever I do not know of any SW unit that has that in your opponents turn.

If no charges are made and I only heroic intervene once I get to activate first.

Tangent question:

If my opponent did not do any charges this turn, but one of my characters meets the criteria for making a heroic intervention, can that move be made?

Say, there is a squad that ends up 2" away from character. Can he pull a LEEEEEEROOOOOOY JENKINS!!! and just go get into the fray?

 Green is Best! wrote:
Tangent question:

If my opponent did not do any charges this turn, but one of my characters meets the criteria for making a heroic intervention, can that move be made?

Say, there is a squad that ends up 2" away from character. Can he pull a LEEEEEEROOOOOOY JENKINS!!! and just go get into the fray?

Yes, you do your HI at the end of the opponents charge phase, which still happens even if they don't make any charges.

Ooh, does that mean SW can "charge" (read: get into engagement range) an opponent 6" away in that opponent's own turn?

The SW get to strike first, as well...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Ooh, does that mean SW can "charge" (read: get into engagement range) an opponent 6" away in that opponent's own turn?
The SW get to strike first, as well...

Technically, yes, but don't get Heroic Interventions and charges confused.
SW (and, in any army, Characters) can indeed use Heroic Intervention to get within Engagement Range. That's... kind of the point. But it isn't a charge, so your opponent will still fight first if they have a rule that allows them to.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Ooh, does that mean SW can "charge" (read: get into engagement range) an opponent 6" away in that opponent's own turn?

The SW get to strike first, as well...

The best way to enshure this does not happen is to stay 6" away. The next best thing is to charge yourself! That way you fight first.

There is one situation in which it's actually embarrassingly possible to leave yourself open like this... let's say you start your turn 11" away, and you have a unit you want to charge with, that can move 6".
So you move them up, leaving them 5" away. Nice easy charge in the same turn, coming right up!
You roll for your charge distance:



Oh no!! Oh wait, hang on, I'll just Command Point reroll that.

So what you are saying is that Space Wolves should load up on thunderfire cannons and screen with cheap wolves?

I mean, on paper that doesn't look like too bad an idea right now...! But let's face it, it's not very like the sons of Russ. I will say it'll be a damn good idea still to wait for the Codex first, aaaand maybe don't expect that particular tactic to work beyond 9th ed at the absolute longest.

 Niiai wrote:
I was wrong. In that case you where right.

How ever I do not know of any SW unit that has that in your opponents turn.

If no charges are made and I only heroic intervene once I get to activate first.

Cannis

 Niiai wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Ooh, does that mean SW can "charge" (read: get into engagement range) an opponent 6" away in that opponent's own turn?

The SW get to strike first, as well...

The best way to enshure this does not happen is to stay 6" away. The next best thing is to charge yourself! That way you fight first.

So, basically, armies with 6" range weapons (inferno pistols, meltaguns in half, etc). are no-selled, at least for those weapons, and armies that want to get into combat but are prevented from (e.g. thunderfire cannon / tremor cannon, -2" from terrain, etc.).

I can conceive of a situation where a unit is 6" away, has an 8" charge due to terrain, but the Wolves can HI because HI isn't slowed by terrain....

Horses for courses, really. Most 6" weapons are pistols and on units that want to be charging anyway (although Thunderfire cannons can indeed put a crimp in that).
Meltas, meanwhile, typically want to be that close to vehicles, and your average vehicle counter-charging isn't really a massive threat... granted a walker could be, but if the meltas have already gotten that close there's a fair chance that walker is not going to survive that long anyway.

Well it will not alway be as clear cut as that. People are trying to get to objectives or in range of backline targets.

Most common would be a group of thunderwolves, grey hunters or what have you charge your line and kill what ever they are fighting in and consolodate towards the nearest enemy. If you do not have any counter charge units you now have a big bouble you need to stay away from. Your heavy wepaons and rapid fire weapons might need to move to forther away then 6.

Yeah, I mean, it does seem like a problem where the SW player has a "Charge for free in your own turn" no-go zone around them. Literally put an SW model on an objective and the enemy MUST get charged in their own turn to contest it.

This has huge implications for scoring in reality, because it's about to be the SW's next turn and therefore scoring command phase. Giving them 6" (HI) + 3" (Pile In) (and possible + 3" Consolidate) for free just because you wanted to prevent them from scoring an objective is nuts, especially given how good their lads are at combat (so your unit might actually die, since they get Shock Assault).

You've done a maneuver that is pretty good against every other army - i.e. denying an objective - and not only lost the objective but sacrificed a unit. The only other choice is to simply accept the objective is lost...

What this means breaks down to this:

"At the end of your opponent's charge phase, any Space Wolves models that are not in Engagement Range with an enemy model but are within 3" of an enemy model may move 3". This move may put them into engagement range."

From there, proceed to the fight phase... if any Space Wolves are now in engagement range during that phase, those engaged units (Space Wolf and enemy) can now fight as normal.

Using the strat boosts the above ability from 3" to 6".

This means that, unless the enemy unit has greater than a 6" move, they can *never* get away from a Space Wolf unit very long (they fallback 6", shooting phase happens, charge phase happens, play the strat, Wolves move 6" and re-engage.) and Wolves holding an objective? If you get close enough to contest it on your turn, they'll engage you in your own charge phase.

Scary stuff!

Not just scary but borderline ... well, I guess it's too early to tell.

I'm certainly scared. It looks like most of my armies won't be able to contest against Wolves unless I bring a fast melee threat (what eldar unit is that again, shining spears? I guess.)

Wakshaani wrote:
What this means breaks down to this:
"At the end of your opponent's charge phase, any Space Wolves models that are not in Engagement Range with an enemy model but are within 3" of an enemy model may move 3". This move may put them into engagement range."
From there, proceed to the fight phase... if any Space Wolves are now in engagement range during that phase, those engaged units (Space Wolf and enemy) can now fight as normal.
Using the strat boosts the above ability from 3" to 6".

Nicely put. One extra caveat... that 3" move has to end closer to the enemy. You couldn't, say, use it to sidestep onto a nearby objective instead of towards the foe.

There is also the fact that you do not actually have to get into engagement range with Heroic Intervention, so you could just use it as a free four inch move for a unit to set up a different charge or be closer to an objective on your next turn.