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Morning Guys, I was watching the Shrine of Chaos with Dave from MWG and Pardo from Spikey Bitz/SN Batreps. They were asked how competitive orkz are in the new edition, especially against SM and Cronz. The answer was....not good haha, in fact Pardo said they were in a very bad place thanks to the changes and recommended the only chance an Ork player has right now is to just drop 120+ boyz on the table and hope to die slowly enough to win on points. I agree completely with their statement, and I have been saying as much since Eradicators were shown to have double shots and +2 and +4 dmg respectively. I've played a bunch of games in 9th but no tournaments yet, what is everyone's perception of them post SM/Cronz Release?

Over the short live span of 9th, streamers and bloggers have sufficiently proven that their opinion on competitive orks is not worth gak, they have been completely wrong on pretty much everything so far and I see no reason why that suddenly should have changed.

Marines haven't changed much from an ork perspective, they are still an unfavorable match-up, just as the were before.
I have no clue on necrons, too much has changed. I need to wait for my necron opponents to finish their models to get feel for the new army.

I was perhaps 50/50 with Orks before we were locked down again - mostly won by focusing on the mission objectives while my opponent was just trying to kill me. Didn't play against Necrons, but did beat Blood Angels (and Custodes) - lost to White Scars & Dark Angels.

I'm not using a particularly competitive list (it has Kans in it), and once people get use to the missions the games will get harder.

SemperMortis wrote:
Morning Guys, I was watching the Shrine of Chaos with Dave from MWG and Pardo from Spikey Bitz/SN Batreps. They were asked how competitive orkz are in the new edition, especially against SM and Cronz. The answer was....not good haha, in fact Pardo said they were in a very bad place thanks to the changes and recommended the only chance an Ork player has right now is to just drop 120+ boyz on the table and hope to die slowly enough to win on points. I agree completely with their statement, and I have been saying as much since Eradicators were shown to have double shots and +2 and +4 dmg respectively. I've played a bunch of games in 9th but no tournaments yet, what is everyone's perception of them post SM/Cronz Release?

I'm not all that sure why an ork player would be particularly concerned about Heavy Rifle Eradicators. A squad of erads killed a buggy in one shot before, they kill a buggy in on shot now, and our basic AT weapon is still ideal for killing them thanks to flat 3 dmg.


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 Jidmah wrote:
Over the short live span of 9th, streamers and bloggers have sufficiently proven that their opinion on competitive orks is not worth gak, they have been completely wrong on pretty much everything so far and I see no reason why that suddenly should have changed.

Marines haven't changed much from an ork perspective, they are still an unfavorable match-up, just as the were before.
I have no clue on necrons, too much has changed. I need to wait for my necron opponents to finish their models to get feel for the new army.

If anything the ork strategy vs marines is buffed compared to before. ding dong the aggressor is dead.Go ahead shoot ghaz with your 18 eradicator list, I think I know how much damage you'll do to him.

the_scotsman wrote:

I'm not all that sure why an ork player would be particularly concerned about Heavy Rifle Eradicators. A squad of erads killed a buggy in one shot before, they kill a buggy in on shot now, and our basic AT weapon is still ideal for killing them thanks to flat 3 dmg.

3 Eradicators at 135pts can kill a 110 Ork buggy in 1 shot is the point. With the meta being heavily in favor of Space Marines with 2 and 3 wounds each you will see lists running around fielding a lot of these guys, this means ork vehicle lists are effectively dead. This leaves Orkz with the Horde play style, and as soon as the SM field realizes they have to hold objectives to win you are going to see a lot more anti-horde weapons brought to bear against us, which is probably why you aren't seeing as many top finishes anymore.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Over the short live span of 9th, streamers and bloggers have sufficiently proven that their opinion on competitive orks is not worth gak, they have been completely wrong on pretty much everything so far and I see no reason why that suddenly should have changed.

Marines haven't changed much from an ork perspective, they are still an unfavorable match-up, just as the were before.
I have no clue on necrons, too much has changed. I need to wait for my necron opponents to finish their models to get feel for the new army.

If anything the ork strategy vs marines is buffed compared to before. ding dong the aggressor is dead.Go ahead shoot ghaz with your 18 eradicator list, I think I know how much damage you'll do to him.

I do think Ghaz is still a problem for Marines, mostly because they really can only inflict dmg in 2 phases (Shooting/combat) but beyond that, our go to anti-marine weapon is the rokkit, and the best platforms we have for those are Scrapjets and Tankbustas. A scrapjet gets 4 rokkit shots a turn on average for 1.55 hits for 1.29 wounds against T4 and 1 wound against T5. They still get a 5+ save so it works out to .86 dead T4 Marines or .66 dead T5 Marines. it also gets 1 Wing missile but its a 6+ to hit on infantry so it works out to like 0.1 dead Marines a turn. The Big shoota's ironically do more dmg, doing .51 and .77 against T4 and .38 and .58 vs T5. So on an average turn its about 1 dead Marine a turn. About the same value of Tankbustas do 7 shots, 2.3 hits, 1.9 wounds and 1.29 dmg so 1.29 dead Marines a turn. So 100+pts of Orkz kill 23ish points of tac Marines a turn, not exactly a great return on investment, especially when those tankbustas require a Trukk to live longer than 1 turn. And as previously discussed, vehicles won't survive long against armies rocking Eradicators.

The only great option we have are Mek Gunz, specifically smasha guns. Those are still great, but you really want them shooting at Eradicators/aggressors or vehicles, not Tac marines and intercessors.

I would take anything from MWG on competitive play as serious as I take a rumor article on Spikey Bits.

Isn't the main point of an Ork Trukk to drive Boyz up the board?

For an Eradicator to destroy one before the Trukk does exactly that the Marine player needs to go first which is 50/50. That Marine player then also must have chosen to not put their Eradicators in reserve. They also must have then put the Eradicators far enough up in their deployment zone to shoot into the Ork deployment zone.

Now, if they did all of that then they will probably blow up your Trukk or maybe even two, but that is a lot of variables. Plus, if they did that then that means their Eradicators are pretty close to your lines and you can probably get into combat with them on your turn, and that is not where Marine players want their Eradicators.

Most strategies with the Eradicators involve putting them in reserve which means you get at least one if not two turns for your Trukks to move forward without dealing with the Eradicators.

Eradicators are trouble for everyone, but I don't see how they alone totally negate that kind of Ork strategy.

From my experience playing against orks with heretic marines I feel they are still competitive but rather limited on builds. The good news is the build(s) they have are fluffy.

Mechanized orks might suffer more but then I feel like most factions mech lists aren't in a great place so thats not unique.

Agree with the_scottsman though.. orks don't care much about erads.

Anyway greenskins have consistently placed high in the limited tournaments we've seen data on. And their win rate is above average when going 2nd and the highest iirc when going first.

I dunno. Admittedly it was regular rifle erads, but I went up against them with a pretty unoptimized mechanized buggy list and I didn't find myself caring about them too much.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:
Isn't the main point of an Ork Trukk to drive Boyz up the board?

For an Eradicator to destroy one before the Trukk does exactly that the Marine player needs to go first which is 50/50. That Marine player then also must have chosen to not put their Eradicators in reserve. They also must have then put the Eradicators far enough up in their deployment zone to shoot into the Ork deployment zone.

Now, if they did all of that then they will probably blow up your Trukk or maybe even two, but that is a lot of variables. Plus, if they did that then that means their Eradicators are pretty close to your lines and you can probably get into combat with them on your turn, and that is not where Marine players want their Eradicators.

Most strategies with the Eradicators involve putting them in reserve which means you get at least one if not two turns for your Trukks to move forward without dealing with the Eradicators.

Eradicators are trouble for everyone, but I don't see how they alone totally negate that kind of Ork strategy.

Yes the purpose of a trukk is to drive up and drop off a unit, but that isn't what it does anymore unless you are bringing MANz. Dropping off boyz is just a waste of time/points because 12 ork boyz isn't as much of a threat as it used to be (hidden PK). So again, they would likely be dropping off Manz or hiding Tankbustas, and if they are hiding either of those units a single unit of Eradicators can pop a trukk relatively easily which than exposes the Manz to more erads or plasma and the tankbustas to bolter fire which will gut them (T4 6+ Save). In an infantry list there is no way to get into CC turn 1 unless you are Evil Sunz (Ironically) and get +1 to movement/advance and charge, and even than its a long shot since No mans land is 24'. In a vehicle list it requires you to go all out towards your opponents line AND have a Trike nearby to buff them as far as advance/charge is concerned, or you can use the 3 dice charge strat on 1 vehicle.

And as far as placing eradicators in reserve, if you select them last to place on the table you likely get a good setup, either in reserve or infront of some vehicles. But that is up to the player to handle.

SemperMortis wrote:
And as far as placing eradicators in reserve, if you select them last to place on the table you likely get a good setup, either in reserve or infront of some vehicles. But that is up to the player to handle.

Maybe you meant this already... In 9th you have to determine was is in reserves before you start placing any units, so holding Eradicators until your last drop is nice; however, you would not then have the option of putting them in reserve.

Against an Ork list featuring a buttload of buggies, I don't see you needing to place them in reserve, especially sine 90% of their weaponry is 24' or less

You need to put them in reserves because otherwise they get killed/charged if the orks get first turn. Declare reserves is before deployment and determining who goes first.

In addition, there are plenty of ways to get a first turn charge, especially if you are going second. If you are thinking about 24" charges, you are not thinking 9th edition.

And then there is obscuring terrain which allows you to hide from errads in the middle of the board.

Last but not least, you keep talking about the buggy list, and yet the most competitive ork list is the Thrakka horde right now, which doesn't care about eradicators at all.