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Looking at the units listed in the new Imperial Armour, it looks like nearly all of the DKoK models got culled. No more Mars-Alpha, Grenadiers, regular infantry, etc...

So is this an oversight or did GW just decide to destroy the faction?

On the other hand there are still:
Marshall
Death Rider Commander
Death Rider Command Squad
Death Riders
Combat Engineers
Which are some pretty iconic units.

I think some will say something like "see Codex Astra Militarum for the datasheets", at least for the Russ tanks, the Infantry Squad, and the Heavy Weapons squad.

Grenadiers though I think are gone. GW's been pushing Scions as the only Guard Spec Ops.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Looking at the units listed in the new Imperial Armour, it looks like nearly all of the DKoK models got culled. No more Mars-Alpha, Grenadiers, regular infantry, etc...

So is this an oversight or did GW just decide to destroy the faction?

I believe that the units that are the same unit as regular IG units are to use rules from the IG codex. It looks like the only unique unit not listed is Grenadiers.

They said they'd go into more detail on the DKoK later in the week, so we might see something about Grenadiers then. Grenadiers are basically Stormtroopers from before their conversion into Scions, so we might see something like a rule that lets a DKoK detachment convert the SCIONS and MILITARUM TEMPESTAS keywords with GRENADIERS and DEATH KORPS OF KRIEGe



It looks like Guard got hit pretty hard in general; in part because Guard had more to lose than other factions having previously been loved by Forgeworld but then dropped like a rock for more Legion Specific Contemptor Dreadnoughts.

The Quartermaster also seems to be gone, as is the field officer. Yet if DKOK instead get medipacks in their command squad and access to platoon commanders I could understand their disappearance. Still the Quartermasters FNP might be missed

I expect a lot of Death Korps units which have AM analogs will just just those datasheets, using the new regimental rule. It will be nice for them to share datasheets, as there has been many times IG infantry squads get updated, and Death Korps get left behind.

The writing has been on the wall for FW for a long time now. It is clear GW does not see the FW range as a meaningful part of 40k. It is now a specialty game company - 30k, and probably the WH:FB reboot when that comes around.

The remarkable thing is that Death Korps didn't just get discontinued entirely like all the other FW factions. It got a slow Squatting instead of a quick one.

If DKoK infantry are now the same price as regular Guardsmen, can take a bolter on the Watchmaster, can take a heavy weapon, and have access to FRFSRF and Take Aim, I'll jump for joy. No more WS3+? Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of 36 lasgun shots at 12".

Seriously, as much as the special Death Korps rules had flavor, going to the generic Codex entries for their non-unique units means not being left behind when points or stats change. Still allowing them to field their unique units is then the best of both worlds.

The main exception being, as Katherine noted, Grenadiers, which need a bit more than 'counts as Scions'.

 jaredb wrote:
I expect a lot of Death Korps units which have AM analogs will just just those datasheets, using the new regimental rule. It will be nice for them to share datasheets, as there has been many times IG infantry squads get updated, and Death Korps get left behind.

Given this is what they’ve just done with the previously separate Codex marines, I think you’re probably spot on, and for exactly the reason you stated. Means the DK rules will still be relevant when the 9th Ed Codex drops.

I personally would be a bit sad about loosing WS3+ as I currently have half my custom regiment count as death korps because fluffwise they are quite CC affin. Guess I might jump over to "Slumfighters". But first I will wait and see what really is in the book.

yukishiro1 wrote:
It is now a specialty game company - 30k, and probably the WH:FB reboot when that comes around.

This has literally always been its raison d’être. The niche of the niche. The boutique within the boutique.

I’m sure the DKOK rules will say they are a Astra Militarium regiment using that codex plus the Regiment-specific units in this book.

 alextroy wrote:
I’m sure the DKOK rules will say they are a Astra Militarium regiment using that codex plus the Regiment-specific units in this book.

which is proably what they should do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
I expect a lot of Death Korps units which have AM analogs will just just those datasheets, using the new regimental rule. It will be nice for them to share datasheets, as there has been many times IG infantry squads get updated, and Death Korps get left behind.

Given this is what they’ve just done with the previously separate Codex marines, I think you’re probably spot on, and for exactly the reason you stated. Means the DK rules will still be relevant when the 9th Ed Codex drops.

it seems to be GW's new approuch to these varient armies, which is proably less of a hassle for everyone as there's no "wait your guardsmen use obscure rules book 1212 so you have this rules, whereas those guardsmen use the main codex so their rules are completely differant"

DKOK seem to be doing a whole lot better than Eldar Corsairs.

Ya I get the impression that the forgeworld book will work like a marine supplement. Maybe even some "this unit from astra militarum gets this extra wargear, etc etc," type stuffs.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
The Quartermaster also seems to be gone, as is the field officer. Yet if DKOK instead get medipacks in their command squad and access to platoon commanders I could understand their disappearance. Still the Quartermasters FNP might be missed

Command Squads already have access to medipacks.

The general consensus seems to be that DKoK are just going to start using the Guard book for the most part.

Losing Grenadiers and Centaurs is a kick in the goolies for sure. Awesome models, faction defining, and some of the best units on the tabletop that DK had available.

Losing quartermaster et al is a shame too but won't have the same game impact.

Couple that with the replacement of their cool morale immunity to shooting casualties with a very poor new rule and you have a lot of K players wondering why GW have taken this approach to their beloved (and extremely expensive) armies.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
It is now a specialty game company - 30k, and probably the WH:FB reboot when that comes around.

This has literally always been its raison d’être. The niche of the niche. The boutique within the boutique.

I think the issue is that in the past many things were done by FW because of technical limitations on plastic/metal sculpts. Since pretty much anything can be done in plastic now, there really isn't any reason for GW to have forgeworld continue making anything new for 40k.

Well, except for their apparent lack of desire to make any of this sort of thing in plastic themselves...

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, except for their apparent lack of desire to make any of this sort of thing in plastic themselves...

It doesn't really help the DKOK if two studios instead of one keep pumping out marines, does it?

I'm fairly sure FW's incentive to create awesome niche models no one knew they wanted died with Alan Bligh.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, except for their apparent lack of desire to make any of this sort of thing in plastic themselves...

It doesn't really help the DKOK if two studios instead of one keep pumping out marines, does it?

I'm fairly sure FW's incentive to create awesome niche models no one knew they wanted died with Alan Bligh.

if that ain't the harsh truth...

alas , we now have 2 30k systems except one is actually not too terribly balanced... and the other full off numarines.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, except for their apparent lack of desire to make any of this sort of thing in plastic themselves...

It doesn't really help the DKOK if two studios instead of one keep pumping out marines, does it?

I'm fairly sure FW's incentive to create awesome niche models no one knew they wanted died with Alan Bligh.

yeah thats my read too Bligh seems to have been the driving force behind forge world.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, except for their apparent lack of desire to make any of this sort of thing in plastic themselves...

It doesn't really help the DKOK if two studios instead of one keep pumping out marines, does it?

I'm fairly sure FW's incentive to create awesome niche models no one knew they wanted died with Alan Bligh.

yeah thats my read too Bligh seems to have been the driving force behind forge world.

Definitely. With his death, a lot of the passion behind the IA projects and other ideas that made FW such a success basically ground to a halt. With the new changes in GW proper consolidating their teams too meant that there was no one to pass the torch onto people on the FW team to basically continue Bligh's work. Complete shame.

 Jidmah wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
It is now a specialty game company - 30k, and probably the WH:FB reboot when that comes around.

This has literally always been its raison d’être. The niche of the niche. The boutique within the boutique.

I think the issue is that in the past many things were done by FW because of technical limitations on plastic/metal sculpts. Since pretty much anything can be done in plastic now, there really isn't any reason for GW to have forgeworld continue making anything new for 40k.

The sad part is while this is technically correct, it requires GW to stop releasing new plastic primaris every quarter for units they don't even need. Yeah, assault intercessors were needed, but did we really need the stationary gun turret, bunker, and heavy intercessors? With all the useless crap SM have gotten we could have revamped a few xenos codexes by now.

We arguably need FW more than ever, but ever since 30k started up good luck with that. Hope you like marines because that's pretty much the whole pipeline for FW and GW

Let's look at it this way. DKoK are just a specialized version of the Guard in the same way that the angles and wolves are specialized SM chapters. The SM chapters get folded into the main book the Krieg get folded into the main book.

Now lets look at whats actually happening in this IA book. Necrons lost their 2 unique characters and they get no dynasty rules for the FW dynasty. Tyranids get no rules for Anphelion hive fleet. Tau get no rules. Neither do Orks, Eldar of either flavor, or Chaos. But SM get 2 pages for Chapters of Reknown and Krieg get 2 pages all to themselves.

Removed - Rule #1 please SM are the obvious winners while DKoK get the consolation prize and everyone else got fethed.

 Lance845 wrote:
Let's look at it this way. DKoK are just a specialized version of the Guard in the same way that the angles and wolves are specialized SM chapters. The SM chapters get folded into the main book the Krieg get folded into the main book.

Now lets look at whats actually happening in this IA book. Necrons lost their 2 unique characters and they get no dynasty rules for the FW dynasty. Tyranids get no rules for Anphelion hive fleet. Tau get no rules. Neither do Orks, Eldar of either flavor, or Chaos. But SM get 2 pages for Chapters of Reknown and Krieg get 2 pages all to themselves.

Removed - Rule #1 please SM are the obvious winners while DKoK get the consolation prize and everyone else got fethed.

We really do seem to be reaching a critical mass of marine saturation at this point. With both Forgeworld and GW proper going full steam ahead on nonstop marine releases (both rules wise and models) even marine players are reaching a level of fatigue since they're facing more marine players than other armies. Just the sheer amount of datasheets for marines is becoming untenable.

 Grimskul wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Well, except for their apparent lack of desire to make any of this sort of thing in plastic themselves...

It doesn't really help the DKOK if two studios instead of one keep pumping out marines, does it?

I'm fairly sure FW's incentive to create awesome niche models no one knew they wanted died with Alan Bligh.

yeah thats my read too Bligh seems to have been the driving force behind forge world.

Definitely. With his death, a lot of the passion behind the IA projects and other ideas that made FW such a success basically ground to a halt. With the new changes in GW proper consolidating their teams too meant that there was no one to pass the torch onto people on the FW team to basically continue Bligh's work. Complete shame.

It's a bit more internal GW politics aswell Bligh was widely reported to be the one that actually kept the 40k & management team out of FW, which allowed the team to actually get on with reproducing a working 6th edition system in 30k release how many models, manage to update 30k to 7th despite not being given any warning that the 40k team was going to be changing edition.
Heck one roumer was that they had to cancel the printing contracts for the last IA book as 8th edition dropped again with no advanced warning.

Also FW as much as people want to complain about it being a niche supposedly made more money than 40k did during 7th. The issue is FW is reported as part of direct sales so outside of the conpany proving the profitablity isn't possible.

Look at what's happened to the FW team since Bligh passed they have had their experienced people reassigned to all the specialist throwaway games and 30k has been used as a dumping grown of inexperienced new hires.

That's management sabotaging the department.

Look as much as Bligh did good things it was not actually a good thing over all that he was doing good things on his own.

The disconnect between rules is exactly because he was keeping people out and protecting his own little corner. GW are for sure the bad guys but having a divided company wasn't better.

Bligh should have been building bridges and actively participating in 40k instead of building walls and doing whatever he wanted. We exist in the aftermath of having everything hang on one person who wasn't actually a team player.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Looking at the units listed in the new Imperial Armour, it looks like nearly all of the DKoK models got culled. No more Mars-Alpha, Grenadiers, regular infantry, etc...

So is this an oversight or did GW just decide to destroy the faction?

Ultimately what I'm hoping it means is that DKoK are just a Doctrine and that they don't have their own rules for most of these units, because in just about every edition, all it has meant is that DKoK units end up being dramatically more expensive than their codex counterparts, and with fewer upgrade options and a smaller armory of weapons to boot, in exchange for a WS bonus that doesn't actually mean squat on these units and marginally useful morale rules in a couple editions. The Mars Alpha pattern hull really doesn't need it's own distinct rules, and didn't have them for most iterations of the DKoK rulesets.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
It is now a specialty game company - 30k, and probably the WH:FB reboot when that comes around.

This has literally always been its raison d’être. The niche of the niche. The boutique within the boutique.

I think the issue is that in the past many things were done by FW because of technical limitations on plastic/metal sculpts. Since pretty much anything can be done in plastic now, there really isn't any reason for GW to have forgeworld continue making anything new for 40k.

The sad part is while this is technically correct, it requires GW to stop releasing new plastic primaris every quarter for units they don't even need. Yeah, assault intercessors were needed, but did we really need the stationary gun turret, bunker, and heavy intercessors? With all the useless crap SM have gotten we could have revamped a few xenos codexes by now.

We arguably need FW more than ever, but ever since 30k started up good luck with that. Hope you like marines because that's pretty much the whole pipeline for FW and GW

The wish of having releases more equally distributed across codices is not connected to FW's premium product business model though. If models like the silent kind of Mortarion are made of plastic, it's hard to justify anything but titans made from resin.