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was looking to take leman russ conquerors, its not listed as legends but not listed in codex will tournaments let you take the unit?

then also question about obscuring terrain vs artillery, does the unit need to be "inside obscuring terrain" to get the -1 to hit or does simply not having line of sight to the unit technically make it obscured from say your manticore/basilisks?

bat702 wrote:
was looking to take leman russ conquerors, its not listed as legends but not listed in codex will tournaments let you take the unit?

That depends on the tournament and the TO. Best to ask them.

then also question about obscuring terrain vs artillery, does the unit need to be "inside obscuring terrain" to get the -1 to hit or does simply not having line of sight to the unit technically make it obscured from say your manticore/basilisks?

Terrain works like it says in the book.

Terrain with the Obscuring trait:

Blocks visibility if at least 5” tall.
Models on or within can see and be seen normally.
AIRCRART and models with W characteristic of 18+ can be seen normally.

bat702 wrote:
was looking to take leman russ conquerors, its not listed as legends but not listed in codex will tournaments let you take the unit?

then also question about obscuring terrain vs artillery, does the unit need to be "inside obscuring terrain" to get the -1 to hit or does simply not having line of sight to the unit technically make it obscured from say your manticore/basilisks?

The Leman Russ Conqueror currently has rules in Imperial Armour Index: Forces of the Astra Militarum. The upcoming Forge World Compendium that will replace this doesn't seem to have rules for the Leman Russ Conqueror, but GW said any units missing will get a Legends datasheet (but how much we can trust that is up to you to decide). You'll need to ask your TO if they allow the Imperial Armour books in the meantime, and Legends after that. Keep in mind most tournaments follow GW's guidance and don't permit Legends units. You're better off just using it as a "Counts-As" regular Leman Russ anyway.

Obscuring Terrain actually does nothing for units inside the terrain, it simply allows non-LOS blocking terrain such as woods to block LOS to units behind the terrain.
Obscuring also isn't the -1 to hit trait, you're thinking of Dense Cover.

so basically a unit needs to be "inside" dense cover to get the -1 to hit? or simply being behind it can grant them -1 to hit?

bat702 wrote:
so basically a unit needs to be "inside" dense cover to get the -1 to hit? or simply being behind it can grant them -1 to hit?

Dense Cover, unlike Obscuring Cover, grants the bonus to any unit "inside" it because the enemy unit cannot draw LOS "without any of those lines passing over or through any part of any terrain feature with this trait", while units "inside" the terrain get to ignore this rule when shooting out of it (as long as NO other terrain is in effect) because "Models that are on or within an Area Terrain feature with this trait do not suffer this penalty if the only terrain feature these lines pass over or through is the terrain feature that the attacking model is on or within." If you shoot "out" of dense cover against a unit inside Light Cover, they suffer the -1 to hit as well.

so if a unit is not visible to the artillery but not "inside" a terrain piece it gets no cover bonus?

Nope, not always true. Obscuring and Dense Cover are in fact two prime examples of being able to benefit from cover without needing to be "within" it.
There's terminology around this, noted as "receiving the benefits", either of terrain or of cover. You'll notice that Light Cover and Heavy Cover use that wording, so units need to be within that terrain in order to get that benefit, as defined under Terrain Types on the previous 2 pages.
Obscuring and Dense Cover, however (among others), don't use that wording - instead the rule is self-contained and gives you all the information you need to calculate what happens.

...try not to think of it in terms of what would actually make sense from the likes of a mortar shell's skyward trajectory. Instead, just read the rules through thoroughly and apply, and disregard common sense as you do so.

man i guess i seriously have to re-read the main rule book terrain stuff over and over and over again


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I want to potentially build a guard list with lots of artillery, but whats the point if its hitting on 5's

Yeah, terrain this edition is... tricky, until you get a couple of games under your belt.
The best way to think of it, is to break it down into its two parts - terrain features, and then terrain traits.

Briefly ignoring Aircraft and high-Wound models just for a moment, for the sake of convenience:
Features (area terrain, obstacles etc) are in most cases what defines the kinds of unit that can benefit from that terrain, if they're within it.
Traits (Dense Cover, Light Cover etc) define what that terrain actually does, both generally, and for models that can benefit from it.

So you can start by looking at the trait to see if anything would happen for the unit being shot at - if it could, and that trait says anything about the unit getting the benefit of cover, check the terrain feature to see if they're allowed that benefit.

 Super Ready wrote:
Features (area terrain, obstacles etc) are in most cases what defines the kinds of unit that can benefit from that terrain, if they're within it

Terrain Feature defines the 'type' of the terrain. This can be either Hill, Obstacles, Area Terrain & Building. While it does clarify what type of units and how these units can claim benefits, it should be clarified that not all terrain needs to have an 'interior zone' which you can claim to be 'within it'.

What it does define is the type of interactions these different terrain types have, namely, how the terrain - 1. affects LOS, 2. affects movement, 3. attackable or not, 4. effective range for claiming benefits.