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My unit in Dense Cover shoots an enemy unit in Light Cover, I suffer -1 to hit?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in gb
Norn Queen






So, I just want to make sure I am not just suffering 5am senility/grognard brain.
BRB, Page 262 wrote:Dense Cover
If this terrain feature is at least 3" in height, then subtract 1 from the hit roll when resolving an attack with a ranged weapon unless you can draw straight lines, 1mm in thickness, to every part of at least one model’s base (or hull) in the target unit from a single point on the attacking model's base (or hull) without any of those lines passing over or through any part of any terrain feature with this trait. Models that are on or within an Area Terrain feature with this trait do not suffer this penalty if the only terrain feature these lines pass over or through is the terrain feature that the attacking model is on or within. Models within 3" of an Obstacle terrain feature with this trait do not suffer this penalty if the only terrain feature these lines pass over or through is the terrain feature that the attacking model is within 3" of. The height of a terrain feature is measured from the highest point on that terrain feature.
BRB, Page 262 wrote:Light Cover
When an attack made with a ranged weapon wounds a model that is receiving the benefits of cover from this terrain feature, add 1 to the saving throw made against that attack (invulnerable saving throws are not affected).

I have unit entirely within a Dense Cover terrain feature. I shoot with this unit at an enemy unit entirely within a Light Cover terrain feature. Do I suffer -1 to hit?

I think I do, because "Models that are on or within an Area Terrain feature with this trait do not suffer this penalty if the only terrain feature these lines pass over or through is the terrain feature that the attacking model is on or within", and since the enemy unit is on a Light Cover terrain feature, the line is passing over another terrain feature, thus I suffer the penalty from Dense Cover. If I shoot an enemy unit that is out in the open, I don't suffer the -1 to hit.

Did I miss something obvious or is this correct?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Reread the previous sentence. You only subtract if you draw a line through any Dense terrain, except the Dense terrain you are on.
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant




Vancouver, BC

I read that as you suffering -1 to hit because the dense terrain rules just say terrain not dense terrain. I doubt this is intentional and if GW notice it we may get an FAQ.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





BRB, Page 262 wrote:Dense Cover
If this terrain feature is at least 3" in height, then subtract 1 from the hit roll when resolving an attack with a ranged weapon unless you can draw straight lines, 1mm in thickness, to every part of at least one model’s base (or hull) in the target unit from a single point on the attacking model's base (or hull) without any of those lines passing over or through any part of any terrain feature with this trait.


I read it as the terrain needing the Dense keyword. “Terrain with this trait” = “Dense terrain” being integral to the interpretation. The second sentence only provides the exception such that occupied terrain doesn’t affect the occupying unit.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

These are the important lines:
"Models that are on or within an Area Terrain feature with this trait do not suffer this penalty if the only terrain feature these lines pass over or through is the terrain feature that the attacking model is on or within."
"Models within 3" of an Obstacle terrain feature with this trait do not suffer this penalty if the only terrain feature these lines pass over or through is the terrain feature that the attacking model is within 3" of."

Emphasis mine, this is what BCB and Canadian 5th have picked up on. The parts of the rule that nullify the -1, specify that that piece of Dense Cover must be the only terrain feature the line goes through. So per RAW, BCB is correct.

Dandelion wrote:
Reread the previous sentence. You only subtract if you draw a line through any Dense terrain, except the Dense terrain you are on.
Not quite what that previous line says I'm afraid. It says you ignore the terrain you're on if that's the only terrain feature the line passes over.

Dandelion wrote:
I read it as the terrain needing the Dense keyword. “Terrain with this trait” = “Dense terrain” being integral to the interpretation. The second sentence only provides the exception such that occupied terrain doesn’t affect the occupying unit.
That's adding a qualifier that isn't there, though. It doesn't say "the only terrain feature with the Dense Cover trait", it says "the only terrain feature", period. House rule it that way if you want, and it may not have been the intent (and may indeed be FAQ'ed), but right now the RAW is pretty clear to me.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/27 08:39:15


"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




London UK

This came up in one of my games recently and was ruled as BCB has said.

If the firer is on or wthin 3" of a dense terrain piece and shoots at a model in the open and doesn't cross any terrain it has no penalty to hit.

But if it targets a model and the line crosses ANY terrain feature (regardless of type) even a crater then as RAW the shot is at -1 to hit. It seems counter intuitive to the way we've played terrain before.

With so much changed in terrain rules we have to assume that this was intentional.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

 Nithaniel wrote:
With so much changed in terrain rules we have to assume that this was intentional.

I don't know if I'd go that far, I do expect it to be FAQed. While it might seem to make sense in the case of terrain that has beneficial traits - bear in mind that the rule doesn't distinguish for hills, or area terrain/obstacles that you've decided have no traits.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
 
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