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2020/10/29 23:51:49
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
Sgt_Smudge wrote: Because they're nearly all working from the same core units.
So you want to remove all variety from an army because their core units are the same?
I just don't see the reason for the push for this is, what possiable use is there to focus on weather or not space wolves have a datasheet for TWC or not?.... other then to fill the dakkadakka "marine complaints" quota.
the thread originally used TWC as an example because i got the idea from the hounds of morkai thread. This could be applied to many other units (mostly space marines because of the sheer number of datasheet they have) but if any other army has redundant or very similar units, they could be used as an example. Its about reducing the bloat more than nerfing marines in particular
Agreed. The 4 types of carnifex (including the FW stone crusher) should be a single datasheet. The codex can have some fluffy foot notes about how to build classic fexes like the screamer killer.
The Trygon should be one data sheet with a points cost to add a mawloc head and it's reburrow ability or upgrade to a prime and gain it's electric thing. Also can the prime be a damn synapse creature? Id appreciate it and pay for it.
The warriors should have a purchasable upgrade to be shrikes. And instead of the red terror the Tyranid prime should have upgrade options to gain wings to function with shrikes or a tail and burrowing to act as the new red terror.
I guess is sky slasher swarms are going to stick around they should be an upgrade to rippers.
I think thats about all the consolidating Nids can do. Im happy to have it done.
Thats the thing i was missing as an example, i think the fact that i used SW instead of Nids as an example made the thread go full-on into peoples emotions
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/29 23:55:51
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And while we're at it, please stick to the topic. No need to make it personal.
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/29 23:58:08
2020/10/29 23:58:05
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
Thats fair. Some people can be testy. The SM subject tends to bring out more vocal people because they are most in need of consolidation.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/29 23:59:45
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/10/30 00:00:51
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
We simply need a consolidation of Manlet Marine options into Primaris. Just pull the bandaid off and get it over with. The sooner the better.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/10/30 00:02:45
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
We simply need a consolidation of Manlet Marine options into Primaris. Just pull the bandaid off and get it over with. The sooner the better.
1000% This. The primaris army list is a pretty damn reasonable army. It's only having both going that does this.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/30 00:03:30
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
I think arguments for consolidation could be valid as well, if presented right.
But claiming TWC is = Outriders
and claiming wulfen are = vet vans...
is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
there is a few things that give us the ability to have some unique flavour. we don't want to lose that.
why not talk about the 3 kinds of primaris ruplsatators
or the mutliple enteries for all the new primaris type armor....
I'd even agree if we we're talking about these new hounds...
but come on TWC being consolidated into outriders... lets be a little less farfetched... this is why I bring up farfetched examples like skyweavers and outriders... the units are just as different.
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:07:03
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
I think arguments for consolidation could be valid as well, if presented right.
But claiming TWC is = Outriders
and claiming wulfen are = vet vans...
is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
there is a few things that give us the ability to have some unique flavour. we don't want to lose that.
why not talk about the 3 kinds of primaris ruplsatators
or the mutliple enteries for all the new primaris type armor....
I'd even agree if we we're talking about these new hounds...
but come on TWC being consolidated into outriders... lets be a little less farfetched... this is why I bring up farfetched examples like skyweavers and outriders... the units are just as different.
can you leave the thread already?
TWC were an example that applies to multiple other units.
Relic terminators already got that treatment, the other terminators shouldve been included in this.
the repulsors SHOULD be a single entry
the 3 new floaty predators SHOULD be a single entry
the 8 captains SHOULD be a single entry
the 4 carnifex SHOULD be a single entry.
You focused way too much on my TWC example and now youre even adding in the wulfen-vet vans comparison which i never suggested because wulfen IMO are unique enough to warrant their own datasheet
2020/10/30 00:08:38
Subject: Re:What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
XD such hostility XD... relax man. It's ok, I am just a guy on the internet.
My bad for responding to "your example" lol XD. p.s. some of your comrades have suggested wulfen and van vets in other threads as another example.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:09:45
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:09:32
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
I think arguments for consolidation could be valid as well, if presented right.
But claiming TWC is = Outriders
and claiming wulfen are = vet vans...
is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
there is a few things that give us the ability to have some unique flavour. we don't want to lose that.
why not talk about the 3 kinds of primaris ruplsatators
or the mutliple enteries for all the new primaris type armor....
I'd even agree if we we're talking about these new hounds...
but come on TWC being consolidated into outriders... lets be a little less farfetched... this is why I bring up farfetched examples like skyweavers and outriders... the units are just as different.
What unique units do leviathan hive fleet get? Jormungandr?
What unique units do Tallern get? The different forgeworlds for Admech? Different craftworlds for eldar? Different sept world for Tau?
Everyone else creates their "unique identity" with their "chapter tactics", warlord traits, relics, strats, and if they are VERY lucky 1 character. Nobody gets unique wargear. Nobody gets 12 unique datasheets. You can create your identity like everyone else.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/30 00:11:19
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
I think arguments for consolidation could be valid as well, if presented right.
But claiming TWC is = Outriders
and claiming wulfen are = vet vans...
is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
there is a few things that give us the ability to have some unique flavour. we don't want to lose that.
why not talk about the 3 kinds of primaris ruplsatators
or the mutliple enteries for all the new primaris type armor....
I'd even agree if we we're talking about these new hounds...
but come on TWC being consolidated into outriders... lets be a little less farfetched... this is why I bring up farfetched examples like skyweavers and outriders... the units are just as different.
What unique units do leviathan hive fleet get? Jormungandr?
What unique units do Tallern get? The different forgeworlds for Admech? Different craftworlds for eldar? Different sept world for Tau?
Everyone else creates their "unique identity" with their "chapter tactics", warlord traits, relics, strats, and if they are VERY lucky 1 character. Nobody gets unique wargear. Nobody gets 12 unique datasheets. You can create your identity like everyone else.
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same... p.s. starweavers and voidweavers. Aspect wariors have unique wargear XD ... your objectively wrong here.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:13:36
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:13:16
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
I think arguments for consolidation could be valid as well, if presented right.
But claiming TWC is = Outriders
and claiming wulfen are = vet vans...
is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
there is a few things that give us the ability to have some unique flavour. we don't want to lose that.
why not talk about the 3 kinds of primaris ruplsatators
or the mutliple enteries for all the new primaris type armor....
I'd even agree if we we're talking about these new hounds...
but come on TWC being consolidated into outriders... lets be a little less farfetched... this is why I bring up farfetched examples like skyweavers and outriders... the units are just as different.
What unique units do leviathan hive fleet get? Jormungandr?
What unique units do Tallern get? The different forgeworlds for Admech? Different craftworlds for eldar? Different sept world for Tau?
Everyone else creates their "unique identity" with their "chapter tactics", warlord traits, relics, strats, and if they are VERY lucky 1 character. Nobody gets unique wargear. Nobody gets 12 unique datasheets. You can create your identity like everyone else.
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same...
Yup. Avoid the question and repeat the same bullcrap again. Thank you very much. Good bye.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/30 00:17:16
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
I think arguments for consolidation could be valid as well, if presented right.
But claiming TWC is = Outriders
and claiming wulfen are = vet vans...
is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
there is a few things that give us the ability to have some unique flavour. we don't want to lose that.
why not talk about the 3 kinds of primaris ruplsatators
or the mutliple enteries for all the new primaris type armor....
I'd even agree if we we're talking about these new hounds...
but come on TWC being consolidated into outriders... lets be a little less farfetched... this is why I bring up farfetched examples like skyweavers and outriders... the units are just as different.
What unique units do leviathan hive fleet get? Jormungandr?
What unique units do Tallern get? The different forgeworlds for Admech? Different craftworlds for eldar? Different sept world for Tau?
Everyone else creates their "unique identity" with their "chapter tactics", warlord traits, relics, strats, and if they are VERY lucky 1 character. Nobody gets unique wargear. Nobody gets 12 unique datasheets. You can create your identity like everyone else.
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same...
Yup. Avoid the question and repeat the same bullcrap again. Thank you very much. Good bye.
LOL XD... have a good night XD...
woves really arn't bikes XD ... I don't know how else to explain this. Aspect warriors have unique wargear,,, because they have unique datasheets compared to the other elf datasheets, they are different units that do different things whilst using different things XD and they arn't the same thing lol...
like if you have a square,,, and a circle... they just arn't the same thing.... TWC is jsut not an Outrider...
A starweaver and a voidweaver,,, that I can buy,
One of the new hounds and a riever,,, THAT I can buy,
The repulsor variants,,, totally, I can believe it
TWC and an outrider.... sorry, just not happening.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:18:44
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:17:31
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
I think arguments for consolidation could be valid as well, if presented right.
But claiming TWC is = Outriders
and claiming wulfen are = vet vans...
is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
there is a few things that give us the ability to have some unique flavour. we don't want to lose that.
why not talk about the 3 kinds of primaris ruplsatators
or the mutliple enteries for all the new primaris type armor....
I'd even agree if we we're talking about these new hounds...
but come on TWC being consolidated into outriders... lets be a little less farfetched... this is why I bring up farfetched examples like skyweavers and outriders... the units are just as different.
What unique units do leviathan hive fleet get? Jormungandr?
What unique units do Tallern get? The different forgeworlds for Admech? Different craftworlds for eldar? Different sept world for Tau?
Everyone else creates their "unique identity" with their "chapter tactics", warlord traits, relics, strats, and if they are VERY lucky 1 character. Nobody gets unique wargear. Nobody gets 12 unique datasheets. You can create your identity like everyone else.
and space marine players are universally happy to say they'd love to see stuff like that for everyone else.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/10/30 00:18:34
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same...
Multiple posts have explained in great detail multiple times how SM bikes are fundamentally portraying Cavalry units derived from Fantasy rules for Cavalry. You have thus far actively ignored and avoided this point, and are pretending it doesn't exist, but your reply has most definitely been answered.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2020/10/30 00:18:49
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
Type40 wrote: p.s. starweavers and voidweavers. Aspect wariors have unique wargear XD ... your objectively wrong here.
Starweavers and voidweavers have the <MASQUE> Keyword because they can be used for any troupe. Guess what? Consolidate them. Same for the various units that fall under aspect warriors.Not that they should be consolidated (because they have different stat lines and do different jobs) but that they are not unique to any sub faction. YOU are objectively wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:21:39
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/30 00:19:40
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same... p.s. starweavers and voidweavers. Aspect wariors have unique wargear XD ... your objectively wrong here.
Excuse me? Aspect warriors are the same for every craftworlds.
2020/10/30 00:22:47
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same...
Multiple posts have explained in great detail multiple times how SM bikes are fundamentally portraying Cavalry units derived from Fantasy rules for Cavalry. You have thus far actively ignored and avoided this point, and are pretending it doesn't exist, but your reply has most definitely been answered.
Then why don't they use the same rules... clearly GW has chosen to use different statlines, wargear options, abilities, keywords, unit sizes, unit compositions and access to wargear options. I am not pretending it doesn't exist. It just isn't what is happening... This maybe how the original bikers got the original stats back in 2nd or 3rd edition ... Its just not accurate anymore,,, if it was GW wouldn't have made them different units... but alas GW did make their datasheets vastly different. Your call back to the days of yore and how the bike rules were derived from cavalary rules is 20+ years out of date and not relevant due to the shear existence of a separate set of rules for TWC.
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:24:05
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same...
Multiple posts have explained in great detail multiple times how SM bikes are fundamentally portraying Cavalry units derived from Fantasy rules for Cavalry. You have thus far actively ignored and avoided this point, and are pretending it doesn't exist, but your reply has most definitely been answered.
Then why don't they use the same rules...
For the same reason I have 4 datasheets for the carnifex. GW sucks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:24:19
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/30 00:24:47
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
Type40 wrote: p.s. starweavers and voidweavers. Aspect wariors have unique wargear XD ... your objectively wrong here.
Starweavers and voidweavers have the <MASQUE> Keyword because they can be used for any troupe. Guess what? Consolidate them. Same for the various units that fall under aspect warriors.Not that they should be consolidated (because they have different stat lines and do different jobs) but that they are not unique to any sub faction. YOU are objectively wrong.
differnet statlines like the different statline between a TWC and an Outrider XD lol. Or the fact that they play differently LOL ...
I am not objectively wrong. I am SUBJECTIVELY WRONG based on your flawed logic aparently...
I OBJECTIVELY can see there is a diference between a wolf and a bike... which you can't seem to acknowledge lol.
For the same reason I have 4 datasheets for the carnifex. GW sucks.
Yes a carnifex is the same as a carnifex...
A wolf is STILL not a bike XD.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:25:26
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:26:21
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
The whole point is that they don't need to use different rules. Having a division between bikes and cavalry was fine when 40K was a smaller game, but at this point they might as well be the same, and leave it up to the players to decide whether the mount is a bike, or a wolf, or a dinosaur, or a couple of guys in a panto donkey outfit.
2020/10/30 00:26:37
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same... p.s. starweavers and voidweavers. Aspect wariors have unique wargear XD ... your objectively wrong here.
Excuse me? Aspect warriors are the same for every craftworlds.
There datasheets are different and they are all still elves XD...
You arn't getting it... they all have different datasheets XD ... TWC is a different datasheet... do you really not get this... lol.
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:27:30
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
The whole point is that they don't need to use different rules. Having a division between bikes and cavalry was fine when 40K was a smaller game, but at this point they might as well be the same, and leave it up to the players to decide whether the mount is a bike, or a wolf, or a dinosaur, or a couple of guys in a panto donkey outfit.
RIGHT,,, ok,,,,
So then my TWC should and could work like any "cavalry" then and it would be fine ? cool cool cool cool. I want my TWC to work exactly like an aldari jetbike then... If we are arbitrarily choosing,,, I pick aldari jetbike and not two wheels and bolters... Niether are a wolf, so I pcik the jetbike.
To free up design space and to make balance easier (that's the common argument right ?) or are you asking why you wouldn't want GW designers to spend time and effort into removing the unique flavour of your wolf unit so that it behave exacrtly like a bike, even though if they spent less time not consolidating the two sheets you would have a datasheet that accurately represents a wolf instead of pretend the bike is a wolf...
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:34:48
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:34:30
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
Living Battering Ram: When a Carnifex finishes a charge move, roll a dice; on a 4+ one enemy unit within 1" suffers a mortal wound. In addition, add 1 to all hit rolls in the Fight phase for a Carnifex that charged in the same turn.
Monstrous Brood: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6" of at least one other model in their unit. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit.
Chitin Thorns: Аt the end of the Fight phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 1" of any models with chitin thorns. On a 6, that unit suffers a mortal wound.
Enhanced Senses: A Carnifex with enhanced senses has a Ballistic Skill characteristic of 3+.
Spore Cysts: Your opponent must subtract 1 from their hit rolls for ranged attacks that target a Carnifex with spore cysts. This is not cumulative with the penalties to hit rolls incurred from the Venomthrope’s Shrouding Spores ability.
Tusks: You can add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of a Carnifex with tusks in the Fight phase if it charged in the preceding Charge phase.
Wargear options: • Any model may replace one of its pairs of monstrous scything talons with an item from the Monstrous Bio-cannons list. • Any model may replace both of its pairs of monstrous scything talons with two items from the Monstrous Bio-cannons list. • Any model may replace one of its pairs of monstrous scything talons with monstrous crushing claws. • Any model may have toxin sacs and/or adrenal glands. • Any model may have one of the following: bio-plasma, enhanced senses, a monstrous acid maw or tusks. • Any model may have a thresher scythe or a bone mace. • Any model may have spine banks or spore cysts. • Any model may have chitin thorns.
Screamer-Killer
Spoiler:
7" 4+ 4+ 6 7 8 4 6 3+
Unit 1-2
Rules Living Battering Ram: When a Screamer-Killer finishes a charge move, roll a dice; on a 4+ one enemy unit within 1" suffers a mortal wound. In addition, add 1 to all hit rolls in the Fight phase for a Screamer-Killer that charged in the same turn.
Monstrous Brood: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6" of at least one other model in their unit. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit.
Spore Cysts: Your opponent must subtract 1 from their hit rolls for ranged attacks that target a Carnifex with spore cysts. This is not cumulative with the penalties to hit rolls incurred from the Venomthrope’s Shrouding Spores ability.
Terrifying: Your opponent must add 1 to any Morale tests for enemy units within 8" of one or more Screamer-Killers.
Wargear
• Any model may have toxin sacs and/or adrenal glands. • Any model may have spore cysts.
Thornback
Spoiler:
7" 4+ 4+ 6 7 8 4 6 3+
Unit 1-3
Rules
Thorned Battering Ram: When a Thornback finishes a charge move, roll a dice; on a 4+ one enemy unit within 1" suffers a mortal wound. INFANTRY units instead suffer D3 mortal wounds. In addition, add 1 to all hit rolls in the Fight phase for a Thornback that charged in the same turn.
Monstrous Brood: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6" of at least one other model in their unit. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit.
Chitin Thorns: Аt the end of the Fight phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 1" of any models with chitin thorns. On a 6, that unit suffers a mortal wound.
Enhanced Senses: A Carnifex with enhanced senses has a Ballistic Skill characteristic of 3+.
Vicious Hunter: Enemy INFANTRY units never gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover against attacks made by a Thornback.
Wargear:
• Any model may replace its monstrous scything talons with a stranglethorn cannon. • Any model may replace both of its devourers with two deathspitters with slimer maggots. • Any model may have toxin sacs and/or adrenal glands. • Any model may have enhanced senses, spine banks and/or a thresher scythe.
Stone Crusher
Spoiler:
7" 4+ 4+ 6 7 8 4 6 3+
Unit 1-3
Rules:
Carapace Chitin Rams: When a Stone Crusher Carnifex finishes a charge move, roll a dice; on a 4+, one enemy unit of your choice within 1" suffers a mortal wound. If this unit is a VEHICLE or BUILDING, it instead suffers D3 mortal wounds.
Monstrous Brood: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6" of at least one other model in their unit. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit.
Wargear
• Any model may exchange one wrecker claw for a bio-flail. • Any model may exchange its thresher scythe for a bone mace. • Any model may be armed with bio-plasma.
Hey look! they all have unique special rules and wargear! They totally deserve to be different datasheets apparently! This couldn't be solved with a single data sheet with an upgrade called "stone crusher" or anything!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:36:33
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2020/10/30 00:38:02
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
So then my TWC should and could work like any "cavalry" then and it would be fine ? cool cool cool cool. I want my TWC to work exactly like an aldari jetbike then... If we are arbitrarily choosing,,, I pick aldari jetbike and not two wheels and bolters... Niether are a wolf, so I pcik the jetbike..
There are constructive ways to make a point.Deliberately missing the point in an attempt to make fun of it is not one of them.
Unless jetbikes are going to be restricted to the same rules as ground-going bikes, for example, then no, it wouldn't make much sense for them to be lumped in with other ground-based cavalry. On the other hand, a flying cavalry category, to encompass jetbikes and, say, eldar on flying dinosaurs and so on, would work.
And that's ignoring the fact that nobody was actually asking for Eldar and Marines to be consolidated. That's a strawman that you keep defaulting to for no apparent reason. Please stop.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:39:11
2020/10/30 00:38:07
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
Living Battering Ram: When a Carnifex finishes a charge move, roll a dice; on a 4+ one enemy unit within 1" suffers a mortal wound. In addition, add 1 to all hit rolls in the Fight phase for a Carnifex that charged in the same turn.
Monstrous Brood: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6" of at least one other model in their unit. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit.
Chitin Thorns: Аt the end of the Fight phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 1" of any models with chitin thorns. On a 6, that unit suffers a mortal wound.
Enhanced Senses: A Carnifex with enhanced senses has a Ballistic Skill characteristic of 3+.
Spore Cysts: Your opponent must subtract 1 from their hit rolls for ranged attacks that target a Carnifex with spore cysts. This is not cumulative with the penalties to hit rolls incurred from the Venomthrope’s Shrouding Spores ability.
Tusks: You can add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of a Carnifex with tusks in the Fight phase if it charged in the preceding Charge phase.
Wargear options: • Any model may replace one of its pairs of monstrous scything talons with an item from the Monstrous Bio-cannons list. • Any model may replace both of its pairs of monstrous scything talons with two items from the Monstrous Bio-cannons list. • Any model may replace one of its pairs of monstrous scything talons with monstrous crushing claws. • Any model may have toxin sacs and/or adrenal glands. • Any model may have one of the following: bio-plasma, enhanced senses, a monstrous acid maw or tusks. • Any model may have a thresher scythe or a bone mace. • Any model may have spine banks or spore cysts. • Any model may have chitin thorns.
Screamer-Killer
7" 4+ 4+ 6 7 8 4 6 3+
Unit 1-2
Rules Living Battering Ram: When a Screamer-Killer finishes a charge move, roll a dice; on a 4+ one enemy unit within 1" suffers a mortal wound. In addition, add 1 to all hit rolls in the Fight phase for a Screamer-Killer that charged in the same turn.
Monstrous Brood: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6" of at least one other model in their unit. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit.
Spore Cysts: Your opponent must subtract 1 from their hit rolls for ranged attacks that target a Carnifex with spore cysts. This is not cumulative with the penalties to hit rolls incurred from the Venomthrope’s Shrouding Spores ability.
Terrifying: Your opponent must add 1 to any Morale tests for enemy units within 8" of one or more Screamer-Killers.
Wargear
• Any model may have toxin sacs and/or adrenal glands. • Any model may have spore cysts.
Thornback
7" 4+ 4+ 6 7 8 4 6 3+
Unit 1-3
Rules
Thorned Battering Ram: When a Thornback finishes a charge move, roll a dice; on a 4+ one enemy unit within 1" suffers a mortal wound. INFANTRY units instead suffer D3 mortal wounds. In addition, add 1 to all hit rolls in the Fight phase for a Thornback that charged in the same turn.
Monstrous Brood: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6" of at least one other model in their unit. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit.
Chitin Thorns: 5 Аt the end of the Fight phase, roll a D6 for each enemy unit within 1" of any models with chitin thorns. On a 6, that unit suffers a mortal wound.
Enhanced Senses: 10 A Carnifex with enhanced senses has a Ballistic Skill characteristic of 3+.
Vicious Hunter: Enemy INFANTRY units never gain any bonus to their saving throws for being in cover against attacks made by a Thornback.
Wargear:
• Any model may replace its monstrous scything talons with a stranglethorn cannon. • Any model may replace both of its devourers with two deathspitters with slimer maggots. • Any model may have toxin sacs and/or adrenal glands. • Any model may have enhanced senses, spine banks and/or a thresher scythe.
Stone Crusher
7" 4+ 4+ 6 7 8 4 6 3+
Unit 1-3
Rules:
Carapace Chitin Rams: When a Stone Crusher Carnifex finishes a charge move, roll a dice; on a 4+, one enemy unit of your choice within 1" suffers a mortal wound. If this unit is a VEHICLE or BUILDING, it instead suffers D3 mortal wounds.
Monstrous Brood: The first time this unit is set up on the battlefield, all of its models must be placed within 6" of at least one other model in their unit. From that point onwards, each operates independently and is treated as a separate unit.
Wargear
• Any model may exchange one wrecker claw for a bio-flail. • Any model may exchange its thresher scythe for a bone mace. • Any model may be armed with bio-plasma.
Hey look! they all have unique special rules and wargear! They totally deserve to be different datasheets apparently! This couldn't be solved with a single data sheet with an upgrade called "stone crusher" or anything!
so they are different ? I dunno man, if you say so ?
Weird though, as I have repeated before TWC have a different statline, wargear options, rules, unit size, unit composition, keywords and access to different stratagems. Not just different rules and wargears... not to mention,,, those 3 datasheets ALL represent a carnifex... a TWC represents a WOLF and Outriders repesents Aa BIKE.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 00:40:05
As an aside, as "infinite" rolls is actually impossible even if the FAQ "allows" it, then it will always be a non-zero chance to pass them all. Eventually the two players will die. If they pass the game on to their decendents, they too will eventually die. And, at the end of it all, the universe will experience heat death and it, too, will die. In the instance of "infinite" hits, we're talking more of functional infinity, rather than literal.
RAW you can't pass the game onto descendants, permissive ruleset. Unless we get an FAQ from GW.
2020/10/30 00:39:20
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
no one else needs to pretend a wolf and a bike work the same... p.s. starweavers and voidweavers. Aspect wariors have unique wargear XD ... your objectively wrong here.
Excuse me? Aspect warriors are the same for every craftworlds.
There datasheets are different and they are all still elves XD...
You arn't getting it... they all have different datasheets XD ... TWC is a different datasheet... do you really not get this... lol.
I mean, if you gave me an "Aspect Warrior" ruleset and then gave me equipment/rule choices to reflect Striking Scorpions or Fire Dragons, I'd be for it
2020/10/30 00:41:37
Subject: What is the benefit of ultra precise datasheet over generic ones?
SM players can be testy about there almost to over 3 times the number of datasheets as everyone else. They are the one most in need of consolidation. They just don't like to hear it.
Let's try to avoid insulting stereotypes that are just going to get people more riled, hmm?
And for the record, I'm a Marine player with 5 different Marine armies, and I've been hoping for Marines to be consolidated into a single codex (with a doctrine system for customisability) for nearly 20 years now. If only because it means fewer books to buy, although the reduced difficulty of keeping up with all the different rules would have been a bonus.
I mean you mostly got your wish, we just have supplements now as well. that said I think space marine players are just tired of our faction constantly coming under attack by the same people in every thread.
I think arguments for consolidation could be valid as well, if presented right.
But claiming TWC is = Outriders
and claiming wulfen are = vet vans...
is a bit of a stretch don't you think.
there is a few things that give us the ability to have some unique flavour. we don't want to lose that.
why not talk about the 3 kinds of primaris ruplsatators
or the mutliple enteries for all the new primaris type armor....
I'd even agree if we we're talking about these new hounds...
but come on TWC being consolidated into outriders... lets be a little less farfetched... this is why I bring up farfetched examples like skyweavers and outriders... the units are just as different.
What unique units do leviathan hive fleet get? Jormungandr?
What unique units do Tallern get? The different forgeworlds for Admech? Different craftworlds for eldar? Different sept world for Tau?
Everyone else creates their "unique identity" with their "chapter tactics", warlord traits, relics, strats, and if they are VERY lucky 1 character. Nobody gets unique wargear. Nobody gets 12 unique datasheets. You can create your identity like everyone else.
and space marine players are universally happy to say they'd love to see stuff like that for everyone else.
Not at the morbid rate to give everyone a fething extra codex or supplement though.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
