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The new Exalted Lord of Change statline has given him something that I /really/ hope gets FAQed (but of course it wont lmao)

He has the +1 to invuln that all tzeentch daemons get of course, but the wording for "Daemonic Lord" has changed. It's now a 4+ invuln that cannot be modified in any way.

So RAW, Eph. Form is useless, right? It's literally a dead trait on him.

You are correct.

But honestly, a 3++ on this sort of model is busted, its good he didn't get it. Works out the same as a base LoC too which is 5++ with a +1.

Does it mean he cant be affected by jinx?

 Argive wrote:
Does it mean he cant be affected by jinx?

I'd say so as he is still getting the +1 its just not effecting the end result, with Jinx it would effect the result so now it works.

 vaklor4 wrote:
The new Exalted Lord of Change statline has given him something that I /really/ hope gets FAQed (but of course it wont lmao)

He has the +1 to invuln that all tzeentch daemons get of course, but the wording for "Daemonic Lord" has changed. It's now a 4+ invuln that cannot be modified in any way.

So RAW, Eph. Form is useless, right? It's literally a dead trait on him.

Assuming you mean Aetaos'Rau'Keres from the new FW book:

"Daemon Lord" is not "now a 4+ invuln that cannot be modified in any way." It says "The model has a 4+ invulnerable save. Invulnerable saving throws made for this model can never be modified." Very, VERY different rules, and this is why quoting the exact text is important.

The key phrase here is "Invulnerable saving throws". You can modify the save itself just fine, you just can't modify the saving throws. Since Ephemeral Form affects the saving throw, and not the save itself, you are correct that the +1 from Ephemeral Form will not apply to Invulnerable Saving Throws made by Aetaos'Rau'Keres.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:
Does it mean he cant be affected by jinx?

Correct. Jinx says to "subtract 1 from all saving throws", which normally can affect even Invulnerable saves. However, the "Daemon Lord" rule prevents the Invulnerable saving throws from being modified, so Jinx won't do anything.

Remember, there is no base rule that prevents Invulnerable saving throws from being modified, it's just that AP nor cover modify them.

Thanks for the wording clarifications, shame it means exactly what I think it means, which is to say this was a blatant copy paste.

Now, if they just removed Ephem form I wouldnt care, but the fact they left it in while also removing its use just shows that they barely skimmed over the datasheet.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Thanks for the wording clarifications, shame it means exactly what I think it means, which is to say this was a blatant copy paste.

Now, if they just removed Ephem form I wouldnt care, but the fact they left it in while also removing its use just shows that they barely skimmed over the datasheet.

Not really, it means that it's Daemonic invulnerable save is a 5++ on a D6+1... so if you somehow get another +1 modifier to invul saves it'll be a 5++ on D6+2. Also if you somehow get a different invulnerable save Ephemeral Form will apply.

Issue is, nothing in the game for Daemons can naturally get it to a 3++ after all's said and done since it's a named character (so no Impossible robes, exalted or WL trait)

So a 4++ is as good as it gets either way, due to how the wording is on Demonic Lord