Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Time to join the Coven or the Pack but curious as to which people think are better.

+1 to wound vs +1 to hit, different specialist units etc, obviously lots to consider.

It's probably worth waiting a few weeks until the new BA codex is out before deciding.

+1 to wound is worth more.

Unless ba supplement gives huge nerfs ba is better hands down. Wolves are on bottom tier of marines atm. Albeit that still puts them on　very good level overall

Unless you're planning to be done with the hobby and move on within a year, I wouldn't choose an army based on how they currently stack up in the rules.

 catbarf wrote:
Unless you're planning to be done with the hobby and move on within a year, I wouldn't choose an army based on how they currently stack up in the rules.

This.

And for me, I would go with Blood Angels 10 out of 10 times as I really like the Blood Angels (always in the top 5 of all loyalist chapters) and put Space Wolves at #9 of the founding chapters and significantly further down the list of all know loyalist chapters. I also don't base my faction/sub-faction choice on rules all that much though.

Blood Angels! The sons of Sanguinius always need more recruits after the devastation of Baal.

We’re the best chapter, had the best primarch (RIP), and are red; the best colour.

Humble82 wrote:
Time to join the Coven or the Pack but curious as to which people think are better.

+1 to wound vs +1 to hit, different specialist units etc, obviously lots to consider.

Pick whatever you like the look of more, or find easier to paint . BA might be a bit better in meta terms *right now*, but as others have noted, who knows what that'll mean by the time you get the army purchased, built, and painted. I don't think either are spectacularly deficient on the table in a way that would meaningfully impact one's play experience.

I would pick based on your view of conversions. Space Wolves are very barbaric draped in furs etc. to really acheive this, especially if you go primaris heavy, you're going to want to do some converting. third party bits etc. if this is something you ENJOY then you'll love space wolves. if you just want to buy assmble paint and play an army without doing a lot of customization, well space wolves are IMHO not the ideal army for you and I'd lean towards blood angels.

I adopted a real life wolf yesterday but Blood Angels all the way.

Am not sure how that whole rules change thing is true, at least regarding marines.
Even ignoring outliers, BA were better then SW all through out 8th, and SW just got their book and it ain't making them better then BA without one, which as others said, would have to mean that the BA books comes with only nerfs for BA to be worse then SW. And this means that if someone started SW at the start of 8th, they are still going to be waiting a few years to get better rules. waiting 6 or more years for something doesn't sound very fun, not that waiting a year is fun, but waiting 2 editions is something way different.

Karol wrote:
Am not sure how that whole rules change thing is true, at least regarding marines.
Even ignoring outliers, BA were better then SW all through out 8th, and SW just got their book and it ain't making them better then BA without one, which as others said, would have to mean that the BA books comes with only nerfs for BA to be worse then SW. And this means that if someone started SW at the start of 8th, they are still going to be waiting a few years to get better rules. waiting 6 or more years for something doesn't sound very fun, not that waiting a year is fun, but waiting 2 editions is something way different.

Space Wolves don't NEED better rules. the mathimatical differance between their chapter traits is pretty minor. in fact from a pure Power POV if the blood angels supplement ends up sucking it could possiably push SWs into being the better choice.

at the end of the day, the OP should pick the chapter whose lore and look grabs him more. if he absolutely loves painting runes and sculpting green stuff fur, (just for example) space wolves are going to make him happier then blood angels.
I mean if he's looking for PURE power, the answer is proably "neither" anyway

that is not possible there are more sources of +1 to hit or re-rolls to hit, then re-rolls to wound of any kind. making a flat +1 to wound bonus better. It lets them wound stuff like salamander biker tanks easier too, because they aren't stuck at wounding him ona +4 with a fist or hammer.

And I don't think we were talking here about pure either. The whole play what you like is big trap, and it is only the bigger the worse you are at painting or the worse you like to paint. In fact it is solely based on the idea, that people playing the game really like to paint at all. Which to be honest is as true as saying, that every player of w40k attends big GT sized events.

Horla wrote:
I adopted a real life wolf yesterday but Blood Angels all the way.

That's cool!

Blood Angels will probably always have the better rules. However if you're basing your decision on rules alone, you're better off painting generic marines of a different color, and playing them as whatever is best that month.

Space Wolves require a great deal of converting to make them really come alive.

-If you don't have an airbrush, you'll find light blue / grey harder to paint than just red.
-If you don't like converting and kitbashing, you will end up with generic marines anyway.
-If you don't like painting faces, you're not picking the right faction.

For perspective, here are the steps i go through to paint my SW faces, and faces alone:

1. Prime the head separate from the model.
2. Do a light airbrush, roughly 2 very light coats of AK air light grey.
3. Do a very light cover of australian tan
4. Spray army painter flesh tone from the top down, lightly.
5. Spray army painter brown tone from the bottom up, lightly.
6. Gently color in the eyes with a light grey, like Ulthuan Grey.
7. Dot the eyes black. Carefully.
8. Highlight ridges (nose, forehead, cheekbones) with a khaki color. You could use rakarth flesh.
9. Clean up the eyes, it's always required.
10. Paint the hair, i usually just mix with white to create varying shades.
11. With a brush gently shade recesses where you want to highlight scaring or something on the face.

Sound like a lot of work? Get used to it, space wolves don't wear helmets.

On the subject of raw power,
In fact it's worth noting that according to this chart (proivided by the metawatch warcom article)



Space Wolves are the tenth top faction in the 40k tourny scene by win percentage. blood angels don't even make that list.

I love the aesthetics and lore of the wolves. I moved to Scandinavian about 10 years ago. Vikings with pet dire wolves ! soooo cool ...

But honestly, go with what you like the aesthetic and GW does a relatively good job at keeping armies tabletop play flavoury (not always, but sometimes )

I have no idea what level of experience you're operating on, OP, or how many other armies you have, but you're a new user on Dakka, so I'll respond based on that: Marines are Marines and are generally in Marine tier, so you should go with whichever idea sings to you more, of course.

So the wolves. Easily the wolves. It's no contest. Viking space berzerkers who howl as they charge into battle riding giant friggin' wolves and drink like it's Valhalla on Earth versus red marines who are permanently angry because they can't decide if they're supposed to be angels or vampires.

Seriously, though, while the strength of the ruleset is a valid consideration, you should definitely never decide solely based on how strong the rules are; those can and will change over time, and once those go away, then barring them growing on you then you've just got a bunch of stupidly expensive minis you feel meh about.

If it's a rules question, well, there's three outcomes over the Blood Angel release:

1. The Blood Angels Codex comes out and it's weaker than SW, which means the SW rules will be stronger.
2. The Blood Angels Codex comes out and it's in the same competitive tier as SW, which means you are best off picking whatever appeals to you more;
3. The Blood Angels Codex comes out and it's strong even by Marine standards, which means no one else will want to play you for the next year and you're better off with Wolves.

 Marmatag wrote:

Sound like a lot of work? Get used to it, space wolves don't wear helmets.

99% of mine do....
Not counting scouts, I have maybe 15 without helmets.
And you can tell their SW as they have their wolfy details - tails, pelts, charms, wolf skulls & crossbones, runes, etc - cast right onto them/their weapons.

ccs wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Sound like a lot of work? Get used to it, space wolves don't wear helmets.

99% of mine do....
Not counting scouts, I have maybe 15 without helmets.
And you can tell their SW as they have their wolfy details - tails, pelts, charms, wolf skulls & crossbones, runes, etc - cast right onto them/their weapons.

wow, old school looking space wolves there, they look great!

Purely on game strength, Blood Angels are usually the safer bet.

Fly/Jump Pack-Infantry-specific units, stratagems, WL-traits, etc.. units beat cavalry / foot-sloggers in all interactions with enemy models, terrain, etc..

+1 wound / +1 advance & charge is far superior to +1 to hit.



If you prefer Space Wolves aesthetics, they are currently reasonably good, have some fun tricks and easily better than they've been through all of 8th Edition.

BrianDavion wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Sound like a lot of work? Get used to it, space wolves don't wear helmets.

99% of mine do....
Not counting scouts, I have maybe 15 without helmets.
And you can tell their SW as they have their wolfy details - tails, pelts, charms, wolf skulls & crossbones, runes, etc - cast right onto them/their weapons.

wow, old school looking space wolves there, they look great!

Sadly not my paint jobs or photography. Just early 2e era stock GW pics for most. My own look OK, but my photo skills would kill them.
Sculpt-wise? Yep, great models 1 & all. I'll use them until I quit playing this game.

Marines generally hit well enough a +1 to hit is less effective than a +1 to wound.

Assuming Cap/LT bubble
+1 to hit vs T4 -

100 attacks, 84 hit, reroll for 10ish more hits, 94 hits, 47 wounds, reroll for 23 more, 60 wounds.

+1 to wound vs T4

100 attacks 67 hits, reroll for 22 more, 89 hits, 60 wounds, reroll for another 20 wounds 80 wounds.

Of course, keep in mind that isn’t the only special rule or special unit we’re talking about.

Whichever of the two chapters stokes your imagination the most. That's the one to paint and play.

Rules wise Blood Angels are probably the better choice.

But Space Wolves are my first love with 40k. The Vikings in Space theme hooked me from the start and i've never considered doing any other Loyalist Chapter.

It also gives loads of opportunities for conversions, sculpting and making a force more unique to you which i love.

If i was to recommend from a lore and modeling perspective i'd go for Space Wolves, if strength in game is your thing go for Blood Angels or as other posters have advised make your own chapter and 'counts as' whatever Space Marine force you want.

BrianDavion wrote:
On the subject of raw power,
In fact it's worth noting that according to this chart (proivided by the metawatch warcom article)



Space Wolves are the tenth top faction in the 40k tourny scene by win percentage. blood angels don't even make that list.

If you read the article you'd have noticed that it was based on pre-Codex results. We don't have data for post-Codex/post-FAQ armies in that article or in those pretty pictures.

Humble82 wrote:
Time to join the Coven or the Pack but curious as to which people think are better.

+1 to wound vs +1 to hit, different specialist units etc, obviously lots to consider.

Mechanically, the BA have substantially stronger "faction rules".
+1 to wound/+1" charge & advance is substantially stronger than +1 to hit/all units intervene
+1A is better than bonus hits on unmodified 6's for any model with less than 5 attacks

We haven't yet seen BA's Psychic discipline, WT's, Relics, or Stratagems, but the SW's are by and large poorer than other SM factions' equivalents or just coming out of the BRB. I can say that I do really like SW's Psychic Power tree, though, like I think it's solid.


But! it's not all bad for the space wolves, because while our special rules are worse, our unique units are good, specifically Wolf Guard Terminators and Thunderwolf Cavalry are both really good IMO. Wulfen can also be good too, though they're not what they once were and they're overshadowed at whatever they do by thundercav. Also, hiding a terminator in your squads can go a long way for the squads too in a surprising way.


TLR: BA have better faction rules, but SW have better unique units.





Also, Warcom's Metawatch was hilariously bad. They're like: "33% of the field is Space Marines, meaning that Space Marines are underrepresented". And I'm like "Seriously? ONE CODEX is 33% of the field, and you're saying it's 'underrepresented' because you're counting each of it's subfactions as equivalent to an entire full faction?"

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:Also, Warcom's Metawatch was hilariously bad. They're like: "33% of the field is Space Marines, meaning that Space Marines are underrepresented". And I'm like "Seriously? ONE CODEX is 33% of the field, and you're saying it's 'underrepresented' because you're counting each of it's subfactions as equivalent to an entire full faction?"

I mean, it's not like these articles are going to be an unbiased look at what's going on.

And if, as someone said above, this is data looking at pre-latest-SM-dex release times, then some of these armies were still independent Codexes (or whatever the plural is - always get that mixed up), and therefore should be counted as their own thing. Definitely applies to BA/DA/DW/SW, for example - not to mention the GK, who still are their own faction.

 Dysartes wrote:

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:Also, Warcom's Metawatch was hilariously bad. They're like: "33% of the field is Space Marines, meaning that Space Marines are underrepresented". And I'm like "Seriously? ONE CODEX is 33% of the field, and you're saying it's 'underrepresented' because you're counting each of it's subfactions as equivalent to an entire full faction?"

I mean, it's not like these articles are going to be an unbiased look at what's going on.

And if, as someone said above, this is data looking at pre-latest-SM-dex release times, then some of these armies were still independent Codexes (or whatever the plural is - always get that mixed up), and therefore should be counted as their own thing. Definitely applies to BA/DA/DW/SW, for example - not to mention the GK, who still are their own faction.

Grey Knights are space marines but not Space Marines if that makes since, so I wouldn't count them as part of the cluster. In the lore the physical soldiers are the same genetically engineered superhuman soldiers as the Space Marines, but they're unit list and general performance characteristics has less in common with the Space Marines than the Sisters of Battle do.

However, when determining that 33% of the game is Space Marines, they counted all 6 non-snowflake chapters as their own full factions equivalent to all of Craftworld Eldar, Tyranids, CSM, or Imperial Guard and insinuated that they expect each to have as much representation as the any other entire faction.

The rule of cool is the most important rule. It doesn't matter what is better or worse. Marines overall are pretty good in the game, and they normally tend to stay that way, so I would honestly just pick the one you like the most and play that.

enjoy painting and playing with what you own. I have both space wolves and blood angels, and I love them both for different reasons.