Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I thought it could be interesting to see what people think are the strongest armies in the game currently... Pick your top 3 factions that you think are the most powerful right now!

Honestly haven't played enough variety to cast a meaningful vote in this! I'd probably say Orks>Necrons>Space marines, based on me playing Orks against Necrons and Space Marines and generally winning!

I don’t understand why BA, DA, SW and DW are separate entries from SM. They all share the same codex now. So either each codex supplement should be listed separately or none should.

FWIW I’d have voted for Salamanders if it were a separate option.

Harlequins, SM and Chaos Daemons in this order

SM, Harlequins, Custodes based on the play rate and win rate numbers. SM's not quite the highest win rates but they have a bonkers win rate for the play rate they have - 1/3 of all armies in competitive are space marines atm.

Aash wrote:
I don’t understand why BA, DA, SW and DW are separate entries from SM. They all share the same codex now. So either each codex supplement should be listed separately or none should.

FWIW I’d have voted for Salamanders if it were a separate option.

This.

#1 Yellow Primaris Marines
#2 Black Primaris Marines.
#3 Craftworld Eldar Counts-As Blue Primaris Marines.

 DoomMouse wrote:
I thought it could be interesting to see what people think are the strongest armies in the game currently... Pick your top 3 factions that you think are the most powerful right now!

If you go by GWs recent metawatch article salamanders, harlies, and daemons in that order.

Followed up by the cluster of sisters, orks, and admech who are listed as overperforming in terms of advancing through early rounds but underperforming in actually winning out - sisters for example being glass cannons with no ability to hold ground. Early days and few results though.

Atm the top 3 strongest armies are, in no particular order:

Dark angels

Astra Militarum

Harlequins





All three of these armies are hands over the rest OP with specific builds.

Before anyone questions my sanity on the Astra militarum pick, please play a game againgst the Krieg riders list and come back to me bowing for forgiveness. All i can say is thank God 5 of the horsey boys cost $117 since the army needs 30-45 of them.

Marines, Custodes, Harlies?
In this order.

Harlequins, Marines and Sisters.

Harlequins are still topping most tournaments. Marines are of course very strong, and depending on BA/DA may end up dethrorning Harlequins, but they haven't won any in a while. They consisently place top 4 though. Sisters are in the same situation. The Melta changes just shot them up there with these 3.

Custodes has fallen off a bit, they haven't really won any events in a while now. They fall solidly into the second bracket with Slaanesh, Necrons and Ad mech Breacher spam.

 Sasori wrote:
Harlequins, Marines and Sisters.

Harlequins are still topping most tournaments. Marines are of course very strong, and depending on BA/DA may end up dethrorning Harlequins, but they haven't won any in a while. They consisently place top 4 though. Sisters are in the same situation. The Melta changes just shot them up there with these 3.

Custodes has fallen off a bit, they haven't really won any events in a while now. They fall solidly into the second bracket with Slaanesh, Necrons and Ad mech Breacher spam.

?

All of the armies you've named have placed top four in GTs this month, just like Sisters.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Harlequins, Marines and Sisters.

Harlequins are still topping most tournaments. Marines are of course very strong, and depending on BA/DA may end up dethrorning Harlequins, but they haven't won any in a while. They consisently place top 4 though. Sisters are in the same situation. The Melta changes just shot them up there with these 3.

Custodes has fallen off a bit, they haven't really won any events in a while now. They fall solidly into the second bracket with Slaanesh, Necrons and Ad mech Breacher spam.

?

All of the armies you've named have placed top four in GTs this month, just like Sisters.

Yeah, but some are more consistent than others. There has not been nearly as many Custodes top 4's recently as compared to the start of 9th. Just checking the most recent top 4's from 40kstats, it looks like Custodes has only had 2 top 4 since the release of SM and Necron, and haven't won one. (3 if count the 17th, but I think that was a bit too close to the release to count)

.Meanwhile, Sisters, SM and Harlequins have been much more consistent at both winning and placing top 4. Necrons are in a similar boat to custodes, they've been in a few top 4s, but haven't won any. Slaanesh has won, but has not shown a consistent top 4.

 Sasori wrote:
Meanwhile, Sisters, SM and Harlequins have been much more consistent at both winning and placing top 4.

To my knowledge sisters haven't won much of anything, but they are getting into the final rounds fairly frequently at the moment.

A.T. wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Meanwhile, Sisters, SM and Harlequins have been much more consistent at both winning and placing top 4.

To my knowledge sisters haven't won much of anything, but they are getting into the final rounds fairly frequently at the moment.

They won a GT on 10/31, but they have not put up as many 1st places as the others. The top 4 consistency is pretty key though.

As I see it, on 40k Stats its Marines->>>>>>Sisters+Quins->>Custodes/Necrons/Daemons/Ad Mech/GSC (???)/Orks->>>everyone else. (I suspect the GSC/Tyranid and Ork wins were luck/player skill/randomness rather than meaning much).

Dakka only has two topics - Marines suck, and non homebrew variations of 5th Ed suck, but the beliefs of some that the new codex would reduce Marine dominance seems to be not coming true, whatever various win rates might suggest.

 Sasori wrote:
They won a GT on 10/31, but they have not put up as many 1st places as the others

Red Rock Exterminatus vs nids, orks, two grey knights and one imperial knight army. The player wrote it up - https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/j1slh6/1st_place_at_red_rock_exterminatus_gt_with/

Current sisters always look like they are going to run into a wall with the all-in list - no shooting, no obsec, not even miracle dice and units that don't handle being charged (or being denied first strike via stratagem) all that well. Seem to be holding up so far though.

Voted SM, Harlies & SoB based on personal experience. Was a close call between SoB & Daemons though

Aash wrote:I don’t understand why BA, DA, SW and DW are separate entries from SM. They all share the same codex now. So either each codex supplement should be listed separately or none should.

Because, if you bothered to look at last meta GW article, DW have 20% win range. Yes, twenty. The fact similar number of clowns voted for them as for Orks, Demons, Sisters, Necrons and DG makes this poll pretty much worthless from the start. SM will get kneejerk vote from higher than next three armies combined, even these handily beating them, and that will be it. It's not like facts or numbers matter here anymore, they could lose next thirty GTs and you will still have circlejerk finding excuses why this is not representative and marines are OP, eh?

Sasori wrote:Custodes has fallen off a bit, they haven't really won any events in a while now. They fall solidly into the second bracket with Slaanesh, Necrons and Ad mech Breacher spam.

Custodes have some pretty disgustingly broken things in new FW book. Wait till people will notice these and add to their armies, win rate will rocket up.

lol theres nothing broken about custodes. The strongest thing we have going for us is the Telemon atm, and it certainly cant win games by itself.

There are at least 3 armies that instantly delete it in one turn even with the buffs it got.

Custodes still suffer from the same weakness. We spend more points per wound than any other army, so anything that can deal us mortal wounds consistantly beats us.

Custodes also loose to anything that can survive a hit from us for more than 2 turns. Come turn 3, custodes will have spent all their CP just staying alive. If they havent crippled the opposing army enough by that time they start folding like golden tin foil to anything with ap-2 or better.

Here is the Goonhammer Tier list for November: https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-competitive-tier-list-november-2020/

Most of it lines up with what I was thinking, and posting. I feel like Dark Angels are a bit higher than I would put them, and Daemons as well. That being said, feels pretty close to what I've been seeing.

Tyel wrote:
As I see it, on 40k Stats its Marines->>>>>>Sisters+Quins->>Custodes/Necrons/Daemons/Ad Mech/GSC (???)/Orks->>>everyone else. (I suspect the GSC/Tyranid and Ork wins were luck/player skill/randomness rather than meaning much).

Dakka only has two topics - Marines suck, and non homebrew variations of 5th Ed suck, but the beliefs of some that the new codex would reduce Marine dominance seems to be not coming true, whatever various win rates might suggest.

I don't know about GSC/Nids but Orkz are winning not because Luck/Player but because they are a hard counter meta list right now. Everyone is running 2 and 3 wound infantry with great armor and therefore everyone is taking plasma, melta and grav like crazy. If you are a CC list you are running power fist/thunder hammer and whatever bladeguard play with style lists for good AP and multi-dmg. The problem is that when you run that kind of a list into 90-120 ork boyz backed by a KFF/painboy and Ghaz...well, you are going to have a bad day. My ork boyz barely notice the difference between dying from a bolt round and a plasma bolt. They both have close to the same chance of killing the boy.

 Irbis wrote:

Aash wrote:I don’t understand why BA, DA, SW and DW are separate entries from SM. They all share the same codex now. So either each codex supplement should be listed separately or none should.

Because, if you bothered to look at last meta GW article, DW have 20% win range. Yes, twenty. The fact similar number of clowns voted for them as for Orks, Demons, Sisters, Necrons and DG makes this poll pretty much worthless from the start. SM will get kneejerk vote from higher than next three armies combined, even these handily beating them, and that will be it. It's not like facts or numbers matter here anymore, they could lose next thirty GTs and you will still have circlejerk finding excuses why this is not representative and marines are OP, eh?

In order of most recently reported GT on 40kstats. Space Marine Finishes.

4th place
Didn't Place
3rd and 4th Place
2nd and 3rd place
3rd place
3rd Place
2nd and 3rd place
1st Place
2nd place
2nd place

So in the last 10 Grand tournaments, Space Marines have 1 1st place finish, 4 2nd place finishes, 5 3rd place finishes and 2 4th place finishes. So 12 top 4 placings in 10 tournaments. So its not really knee jerk as its a fact that SM's are a top army right now.

SM, Custodes, Harlequins.

Other armies can be top tier but mostly using very skew list that only overly competitive players are willing to collect. Top SM, Custodes and Harlequins armies look pretty close to typical/average collections of models instead, that's why I'd rate them far above other top armies like Adepta Sororitas or Chaos Daemons.

 Blackie wrote:
SM, Custodes, Harlequins.

Other armies can be top tier but mostly using very skew list that only overly competitive players are willing to collect. Top SM, Custodes and Harlequins armies look pretty close to typical/average collections of models instead, that's why I'd rate them far above other top armies like Adepta Sororitas or Chaos Daemons.

There is also the fact that if you look at tournament results, there is no specific SM list that is winning. I mean literally there isn't. You see a general trend with some units but there are just so many that its actually a bit astonishing to be honest.

The last 3 Space Marine winning lists were from 3 different chapters, Smurfs, scars and furry killers (Black Templars)

Smurf brought redemptors, contemptors, blade guard, incursors, infiltrators, intercessors, Tacticals, suppressors, eradicators and a razorback.

Scar brought Assault intercessors, incursors, bladeguard, Company vets, Vanguard vets, attack bikes and an inceptor squad.

The furry killer brought bladeguard, Cenobyte, Assault terminators, vanguard vets, attack bikes, Inceptors, Eradicators and a whirlwind.

There is a bit of overlap but compare that to Orkz which is basically 90+ ork boyz, ghaz, painboy, warboss and either kommandos or meganobz in basically every winning list for the last month.


Space Marines as a faction are absolutely the best codex right now and the only reason they aren't running away with more than 12 wins in 10 tournaments is because people are list building against them specifically.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
SM, Custodes, Harlequins.

Other armies can be top tier but mostly using very skew list that only overly competitive players are willing to collect. Top SM, Custodes and Harlequins armies look pretty close to typical/average collections of models instead, that's why I'd rate them far above other top armies like Adepta Sororitas or Chaos Daemons.

There is also the fact that if you look at tournament results, there is no specific SM list that is winning. I mean literally there isn't. You see a general trend with some units but there are just so many that its actually a bit astonishing to be honest.

The last 3 Space Marine winning lists were from 3 different chapters, Smurfs, scars and furry killers (Black Templars)

Smurf brought redemptors, contemptors, blade guard, incursors, infiltrators, intercessors, Tacticals, suppressors, eradicators and a razorback.

Scar brought Assault intercessors, incursors, bladeguard, Company vets, Vanguard vets, attack bikes and an inceptor squad.

The furry killer brought bladeguard, Cenobyte, Assault terminators, vanguard vets, attack bikes, Inceptors, Eradicators and a whirlwind.

There is a bit of overlap but compare that to Orkz which is basically 90+ ork boyz, ghaz, painboy, warboss and either kommandos or meganobz in basically every winning list for the last month.


Space Marines as a faction are absolutely the best codex right now and the only reason they aren't running way with more than 12 wins in 10 tournaments is because people are list building against them specifically.

That's one hell of a paradox to be in, if they drop in popularity, likely due to a nerf, people stop countering them, pushing their win rate back up.

Not much of a way around that without game wide simultaneous updates I don't think?

Dudeface wrote:


That's one hell of a paradox to be in, if they drop in popularity, likely due to a nerf, people stop countering them, pushing their win rate back up.

Not much of a way around that without game wide simultaneous updates I don't think?

Its been the state of the game since ive played. Rock, paper scissors. Except right now its a bit weird as every faction is trying to out ROCK space Marines who are the best ROCK. Which is kind of great for Ork players as nobody is list tailoring against us so in tournaments I'm laughing as my ork boyz get incinerated by a 60pt Melta shot, only to somehow bounce back up with a 5+ invuln save or god forbid they get almost wiped out and i have to use green tide to bring back 30 boyz

Dudeface wrote:
That's one hell of a paradox to be in, if they drop in popularity, likely due to a nerf, people stop countering them, pushing their win rate back up.

Not much of a way around that without game wide simultaneous updates I don't think?

This is literally what a metagame is

 Corrode wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
That's one hell of a paradox to be in, if they drop in popularity, likely due to a nerf, people stop countering them, pushing their win rate back up.

Not much of a way around that without game wide simultaneous updates I don't think?

This is literally what a metagame is

Well yeah, but it's not normally oriented around 1 faction of many.

Blood angels are funny low on poll seeing they are pretty ideal for 9e midfield brawl with wery good chapter tactic and sanquinary guard being just mean for cost

Dudeface 794191 10995918 wrote:

Well yeah, but it's not normally oriented around 1 faction of many.

Don't know how true it was for the entire span of w40k history, but 8th very much had whole months dominated by one faction or even one specific build.