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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Are enamel paints still the go to for painting airfix kits. I haven’t done one for about 30 years and back then it was humbrol enamel paints or nothing.

Have people switched to acrylics now?
   
Made in gb
Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

Acrylics are vastly superior to enamels in my opinion. Enamels these days tend to be used for weathering and corrosion effects.
I'm sure you could find some purists who still use enamels but the pros and cons of enamel versus acrylic vastly favour the latter.

Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children

Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Oh Canada!

Enamels have their uses, particularly when emulating something like a vintage car candy coat or special effects, but even those looks are possible with the right acrylics and layering.

By almost every metric - scratch resistance is one enamel still does better - acrylics are the superior paint, mostly because they're less toxic and much easier to clean up. Drying time is significantly shorter and they're far less likely to fuse the lids to the flubbin' jar. *augh!* Just the fact of not having to use nasty solvents is a huge plus.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

If you are going to get back into model making I'd suggest going the acrylic route. While enamels are still widely used, you'll find that you'll have to do a lot of mixing to get the colours you want, whereas with acrylics you can mostly just get the colour off the shelf. There are many paint manufacturers such as Vallejo, AK Interactive and MIG Productions who have extensive ranges covering many kits and periods.

It may be an idea to grab a couple of modelling magazines such as Airfix's, they all do build reviews, which will give you an idea of what paint they use.

 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





In the context of painting model aircraft, enamels are still popular, but these days less so than acrylics.

If you're airbrushing, enamels can be laid on super smooth and some effects that are challenging with acrylics are easy with enamels.

If painting with a hairy brush, then some people prefer enamels because they self level better.

That said, acrylics have come a long way and they're a lot more popular than they used to be, and many of the top painters favour them over enamels now.

These days your options are broadly, this list can probably be added to but I'm just going off memory.

Enamels - airbrush nicely, slow to dry (can be a pro or a con depending on how you look at it) and require unpleasant chemicals for thinning and cleanup. Generally paint well with hairy brushes, but clean up is a pain in the arse and the slow dry time means you need patience when hairy brushing enamels.

Lacquers - airbrush nicely, dry very fast, have hideous chemicals for thinning and clean up that you absolutely don't want to breathe in. They can be sanded which can make them appealing in certain circumstances. In my experience it's very hard to hairy brush with lacquers, I wouldn't recommend even trying. Lacquer primers are awesome though, if I'm priming with my airbrush I'm pretty much always using a lacquer primer.

Water based acrylics - don't airbrush as nicely, dry fast but not as fast as lacquers, clean up / thinning done with somewhat less toxic chemicals (still wouldn't want to be inhaling them, but less stressful than dealing with enamels or lacquers). Generally they do NOT sand nicely, which is why I wouldn't use them if painting model cars which often need sanding and polishing, but even on aircraft sometimes around the wing roots get a bit grainy and sanding would be nice.

Alcohol based acrylics - Lie somewhere between water based acrylics and lacquers in how they behave. For the most part I'd say they do NOT paint well with a hairy brush, though better than lacquers, still wouldn't recommend it.

In recent years, I have used all of the above to paint model aircraft. I tend to favour lacquers and alcohol based acrylics as I think give better results more easily, and for painting military planes they often have nicer colours. But I've also used enamels and those planes came out fine, and I've used water based acrylics and those planes came out mostly fine also (I say "mostly" because a couple of times I've gotten a surface finish I wasn't happy with).

These days, I tend to look for the colour combinations I like the most and use whichever paint comes in those colour combinations, but favouring the alcohols and lacquers over the enamels and water based acrylics. I have some planes that are even painted with a combination of enamels and acrylics because of the colours I wanted to use.

One reason to picking one option and sticking with it is that it'll inevitably be cheaper. Every time you venture out in to a new medium you need new thinners, clean up materials, and you generally want to buy some basic colours for mixing (I always buy a white, a black, a beige and the primary colours so I can alter colours as necessary).

This is talking purely in the context of model planes rather than wargaming miniatures though. In the context of miniatures, water based acrylics reign supreme and I don't know anyone who uses enamels for anything other than weathering or special effects in the context of miniatures. I do have some miniatures that I painted with enamels because I wanted to try enamel blending, which works quite well but wasn't worth the effort for me to continue with it.


This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/11/28 12:47:29


 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






As said, more options now then before.

Nothing wrong with using humbrol paints if that is all your local supplyer has, afterall, anything is better then grey sprue plastic.
heck, people are starting to use oil paints on their minis and static display models, and there are even spesificly made oil paints for minis(quicker drying time then regular oil paints) so that shows the diviersity of the hobby in general when it comes to colour.


darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
In the context of painting model aircraft, enamels are still popular, but these days less so than acrylics.

If you're airbrushing, enamels can be laid on super smooth and some effects that are challenging with acrylics are easy with enamels.

If painting with a hairy brush, then some people prefer enamels because they self level better.

That said, acrylics have come a long way and they're a lot more popular than they used to be, and many of the top painters favour them over enamels now.

These days your options are broadly, this list can probably be added to but I'm just going off memory.

Enamels - airbrush nicely, slow to dry (can be a pro or a con depending on how you look at it) and require unpleasant chemicals for thinning and cleanup. Generally paint well with hairy brushes, but clean up is a pain in the arse and the slow dry time means you need patience when hairy brushing enamels.

Lacquers - airbrush nicely, dry very fast, have hideous chemicals for thinning and clean up that you absolutely don't want to breathe in. They can be sanded which can make them appealing in certain circumstances. In my experience it's very hard to hairy brush with lacquers, I wouldn't recommend even trying. Lacquer primers are awesome though, if I'm priming with my airbrush I'm pretty much always using a lacquer primer.

Water based acrylics - don't airbrush as nicely, dry fast but not as fast as lacquers, clean up / thinning done with somewhat less toxic chemicals (still wouldn't want to be inhaling them, but less stressful than dealing with enamels or lacquers). Generally they do NOT sand nicely, which is why I wouldn't use them if painting model cars which often need sanding and polishing, but even on aircraft sometimes around the wing roots get a bit grainy and sanding would be nice.

Alcohol based acrylics - Lie somewhere between water based acrylics and lacquers in how they behave. For the most part I'd say they do NOT paint well with a hairy brush, though better than lacquers, still wouldn't recommend it.

In recent years, I have used all of the above to paint model aircraft. I tend to favour lacquers and alcohol based acrylics as I think give better results more easily, and for painting military planes they often have nicer colours. But I've also used enamels and those planes came out fine, and I've used water based acrylics and those planes came out mostly fine also (I say "mostly" because a couple of times I've gotten a surface finish I wasn't happy with).

These days, I tend to look for the colour combinations I like the most and use whichever paint comes in those colour combinations, but favouring the alcohols and lacquers over the enamels and water based acrylics. I have some planes that are even painted with a combination of enamels and acrylics because of the colours I wanted to use.

One reason to picking one option and sticking with it is that it'll inevitably be cheaper. Every time you venture out in to a new medium you need new thinners, clean up materials, and you generally want to buy some basic colours for mixing (I always buy a white, a black, a beige and the primary colours so I can alter colours as necessary).

This is talking purely in the context of model planes rather than wargaming miniatures though. In the context of miniatures, water based acrylics reign supreme and I don't know anyone who uses enamels for anything other than weathering or special effects in the context of miniatures. I do have some miniatures that I painted with enamels because I wanted to try enamel blending, which works quite well but wasn't worth the effort for me to continue with it.




So are you saying that for model planes and military vehicles etc enamel paints give a more realistic finish where as for 40K Realistic isn’t really what we’re looking for
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





mrFickle wrote:
So are you saying that for model planes and military vehicles etc enamel paints give a more realistic finish where as for 40K Realistic isn’t really what we’re looking for


I wouldn't say more realistic, mainly just more consistent in their finish and they lay down smoother. Generally when it comes to hobby enamels, hobby lacquers and hobby alcohol based acrylics they'll tell you what finish to expect - gloss, semi gloss, flat, matte and you can either pick the one that is appropriate for the model you're painting and/or apply a varnish afterwards to get the desired finish.

What I mean when I say "consistent" is that it's easier to get an identical finish over the whole model. Aircraft, especially if you're doing 1/32 or larger, have areas with gently curves, so inconsistencies in finish (where one spot is a bit grainier than another, or maybe a bit glossier than another) tend to stand out a lot more than on traditional wargaming models. So getting a consistent finish is important. I'm definitely not saying it's impossible to get the same finish with water based acrylics, simply that it's easier with enamels as they have a wider window where they lay down properly.

And when I mean "smoothness", I mean that when airbrushing enamel paints leave the nozzle more easily and then self level better on the surface of the model. This means when you have to do subtle effects like panel shading or finely sprayed soft edged camo, it's easier to avoid that spotty look that you sometimes get with airbrushing, also some folk reckon it's easier to avoid brushstrokes when hairy brush painting (though admittedly I don't try to hairy brush paint my aircraft, so I'm just going off what others have said). Again, not impossible to achieve with water based acrylics, but just easier to do with enamels.

But I'm not trying to talk you into using enamels, there's definitely downsides which for many people outweigh the positives. Personally I lean toward the alcohol based acrylics for painting aircraft (sold by Gunze and Tamiya) or lacquers, but I definitely don't mind painting with enamels, they have their benefits. The biggest downside for me is the fumes released while painting, and the models continue to release fumes for a long time after painting so I have to store my models and also the equipment (brushes, airbrushes, cleaning equipment) in a spare room so it doesn't stink out the whole house until they've fully cured and I can stick them on a display shelf.

I guess two big questions are...

1. Are you using an airbrush?

2. What sort of quality are you trying to achieve?

If you're not using an airbrush I'd be tempted to try some enamels, even though I don't use a hairy brush myself I've seen some good results achieved with hairy brushed enamels. Though for things like fine details (cockpits, etc) it's good to have a couple of water based acrylics as they are simply the easiest for doing fine details.

And when I say what sort of quality, are you going for display shelf models, or just having some fun? For years I just built model aircraft for the fun of it, threw most of them in the bin when I was finished, but these days I go for display shelf sorts of models. The difference is the quick builds I'd pump out in a day or two, but the display shelf stuff I take weeks to do a single model, so the techniques are different between the two approaches.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/28 18:26:20


 
   
Made in gb
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





Portsmouth UK

I would do some searches on Youtube. There are some great stage-by-stage painting guides on there. There are also a number of AVF (armoured fighting vehicle) magazines on the UK market although you'll have to go to a larger paper / magazine shop or a very large super (hyper?) market that have a decent selection.
From what I've seen, many modellers use acrylics through an airbrush, sometimes with zentinal (spelling?) shading sometimes not, oils or enamels for pin washes & oils, enamels & powders for weathering.
You do have to be careful on the order of some of these as some paints don't like sitting on others eg putting acrylics over oils can cause issues but a decent coat of varnish can sort that.
There's also a good few modellers pages on FB. EG: https://www.facebook.com/groups/235937257059605

Check out my gallery here
Also I've started taking photos to use as reference for weathering which can be found here. Please send me your photos so they can be found all in one place!! 
   
Made in gb
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Cloud City, Bespin

Who remembers trying to use crusty bent nylon brush?

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Straight out if the pot, bang it on. What else is there to know?
 DV8 wrote:
Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnought should also be double-fisted.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I’m asking because a relative just got some kits to try and I thought it might be fun and if I could use my paints to paint these types of models. I remember as a kid the smell from enamel paints and I didn’t enjoy it. I was also wondering if I could share what I had learnt about painting techniques but I get the feeling that painting with enamel is a different technique to water acrylic.

But at first I was just curious if the “airfix hobby” had migrated to acrylic paints and enamel was a thing of the past. But thinking about the different finishes you get and the way enamel goes onto a model compared to acrylic I get what you are saying.

I never thought about an airbrush for enamels. I have a cheap one that’s good for basing
   
Made in gb
Thane of Dol Guldur





Bodt

I would advise the use of acrylics for a beginner, purely because of their ease of use compared to other paints based on harsher chemicals. Having to deal with various chemical thinners just adds to the learning curve, and let's face it, your initial efforts are unlikely to be great. So it's worth getting the hang of painting first, figuring out how to actually do the task, then move onto more advanced or difficult techniques once you've got into the groove a little.

Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children

Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





mrFickle wrote:
I’m asking because a relative just got some kits to try and I thought it might be fun and if I could use my paints to paint these types of models. I remember as a kid the smell from enamel paints and I didn’t enjoy it. I was also wondering if I could share what I had learnt about painting techniques but I get the feeling that painting with enamel is a different technique to water acrylic.

I would say painting model planes is in general a very different skill set to painting miniatures, regardless of what paint you use. The only part that is similar is the cockpit, there's a lot of techniques used for painting cockpits that are mirrored in painting wargaming miniatures.

But the plane as a whole I think is quite different. Planes have big surfaces that curve smoothly and gently, so to make a model plane look good you have to learn firstly how to lay down paint with a really nice finish, then secondly learn techniques for making those areas less boring, and since people generally try and make airfix kits realistic you can't hide your mistakes under excessive detail like many wargaming models.

Then you have things to learn like gap filling, scribing panel lines, riveting, masking and painting canopies, masking in general, adding radio wires, making clear parts coloured for lights... a lot of things that most people wouldn't touch on in wargaming miniatures but are crucial for getting nice looking airfix models.

But at first I was just curious if the “airfix hobby” had migrated to acrylic paints and enamel was a thing of the past. But thinking about the different finishes you get and the way enamel goes onto a model compared to acrylic I get what you are saying.

I would say that "airfix" modellers have moved away from enamels for the most part, but not to water based acrylics like we use for miniatures (so not GW paints, Vallejo, or similar), rather they've moved more towards lacquers and alcohol based acrylics (Tamiya and Gunze). But it's not like enamels have gone the way of the dodo, some people still use them, I still use them on occasion but they aren't my go-to.

I never thought about an airbrush for enamels. I have a cheap one that’s good for basing

If you regularly airbrush, I suggest you try enamels just for the fun of it some time (assuming you can properly ventilate your area so you aren't inhaling fumes). Enamels airbrush soooo nicely, things like the mottling on German WW2 fighters which is challenging with acrylics is so much easier with enamels. Tip dry is less of a headache, thinning ratios are so much more forgiving, and in general it's just a lot more pleasant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I would advise the use of acrylics for a beginner, purely because of their ease of use compared to other paints based on harsher chemicals. Having to deal with various chemical thinners just adds to the learning curve, and let's face it, your initial efforts are unlikely to be great. So it's worth getting the hang of painting first, figuring out how to actually do the task, then move onto more advanced or difficult techniques once you've got into the groove a little.


Once you get past the fumes from enamels, I'd actually say they're easier to paint with in the context of model planes because it takes less work to get a good smooth coat. But you have to start with someone showing (or a youtube video showing you) the proper techniques. I think a lot of us older blokes learned the hard way, through trial and error, but if you learn the proper way from the beginning (even if it takes you a few tries at it) it makes a massive difference.

Someone earlier mentioned using youtube videos and that's a great idea. If you're hand brushing stuff, the YTer Quick Kits does some great work with enamels...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n339wMbtABU

I just found this guy, who also hand brushes but seems to favour acrylics (though funnily enough he uses Vallejo Air acrylics, I can't argue with his results though, they look great)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZFap65kpgg

If you're wanting to make yourself feel inferior, this dude does absolutely incredible models at a level I will never reach...
https://www.youtube.com/c/idaemonplasmo/videos

You can also check out aircraft modelling forums, folk are generally happy to share how they achieved certain effects.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/29 14:35:39


 
   
 
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