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Hi people ! A question has been on my mind for quite some time, especially after reading the novels Blood of Asaheim and Stormcaller.

So, the Space Wolves do not recognize the Emperor as a god and have some sort of pagan shamanist religion, two things that put them at odds with the Ecclersiarchy and the Adeptas Sororitas (as seen in the two novels I mentioned).

However, what puzzles me is that they refer to the Emperor with the title "Allfather", which is clearly inspired by the title Odin had in norse mythology. So, if they do not see the Emperor as a god, why do they use this term ? Or is it a way of saying he's the father of all the Space marines throught the Primarchs gene-seed ?

Just a bit of lore I find weird.

Most SM chapters don’t follow the Imperial Creed. They tend to think of the Emperor as not a god, just a very powerful psychic man and the creator of the primarchs and space marines. The Primarchs ( other than Lorgar) never saw the Emperor as a god, and their view is generally followed by their legion and subsequently the chapters.

The Black Templars are, I think, a notable exception.

As for specifically why the SWs call him Allfather, other than the Norse connection, I’m not sure. Maybe someone else can comment.

If you asked the same question of the GW writers they will probably smile wink and tap their nose conspiratorially as if they meant the contradiction.

The use of Allfather is really just laziness on GW's part that we are stuck with.

Its not Omnicide and Murderfang bad though.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khornate25 wrote:
Or is it a way of saying he's the father of all the Space marines throught the Primarchs gene-seed ?

This is the explanation I use.

My understanding is that the contradiction is intentional. The Space Wolf one I think is an allusion to early Christianity reappropriating pagan beliefs and holidays to further their own agenda.

In the imperium, you aren't allowed to be abhuman or a mutant, unless of course its useful like being a navigator or ogryn.

It's the same way that some religions believe that their magical flying spaghetti monster is more real that that other guy's magical flying spaghetti monster.

All beliefs are full of contradictions.

Fenris Locals clearly has some sort of belief. They refer to SW propper with myth and reverence.

When you ascent to SW propper I am unsure to what degree it continues your belief or if you are introduced to new beliefs.

 Niiai wrote:
Fenris Locals clearly has some sort of belief. They refer to SW propper with myth and reverence.

When you ascent to SW propper I am unsure to what degree it continues your belief or if you are introduced to new beliefs.

could it be a holdover form the Fenrisian local beliefs? that the Allfather is the name used in the planets version of the Imperial Creed (which, lest we forget, is a broad church affair that allows enough leeway that genestealer cults semi-regularlly get away with posing as a loyal emperor-worshiping cult for decades at a time)?

The Emperor, at least according to the IA articles, is seen as an "ultimate warrior" type by the Vlka Fenryka. He was the peak human, the greatest possible man.

As for the relationship they have with the Ecclesiarchy, it's complicated. The Ecclesiarchy sent military forces at least two times to Fenris, and were, both times, repelled by the Space Wolves. The first was during the Plague of Unbelief, under the orders of Bucharis. The second was the Fenris Incident, which led to a three-week war between the Vlka Fenryka and the Ecclesiarchy. And then there's the more commonly known stuff like the Months of Shame.

Wolf Priests are not given a Rosarius like conventional Chaplains, which could hint at long-lasting tensions.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
The Emperor, at least according to the IA articles, is seen as an "ultimate warrior" type by the Vlka Fenryka. He was the peak human, the greatest possible man.

As for the relationship they have with the Ecclesiarchy, it's complicated. The Ecclesiarchy sent military forces at least two times to Fenris, and were, both times, repelled by the Space Wolves. The first was during the Plague of Unbelief, under the orders of Bucharis. The second was the Fenris Incident, which led to a three-week war between the Vlka Fenryka and the Ecclesiarchy. And then there's the more commonly known stuff like the Months of Shame.

Wolf Priests are not given a Rosarius like conventional Chaplains, which could hint at long-lasting tensions.

Yeah, by the time you become a SM chapter you mostly have the authoraty to belive what ever you belive. Questening your reasoning in the belief just does not happen.

With SW protecting the plannet, and 10 000 years since the emperor came there viseting quite a lot of the local religion could have blossomed fairly vidly. If the locals belive in the mystical storm warriors and the allfather, all the easier to train them as SW later on.

What I'm wondering about is if the Space Wolves are ever going to get revenge for the Grey Knights slaughtering most of their civilian population.

Hecaton wrote:
What I'm wondering about is if the Space Wolves are ever going to get revenge for the Grey Knights slaughtering most of their civilian population.

No, because GW have butchered the fluff. This is Logan "I beheaded a Grey Knight Grandmaster because he was mean to Imperial Guardsman" Grimnar, now rolling over to let the same Grey Knights genocide his homeworld.

 Khornate25 wrote:
Hi people ! A question has been on my mind for quite some time, especially after reading the novels Blood of Asaheim and Stormcaller.

So, the Space Wolves do not recognize the Emperor as a god and have some sort of pagan shamanist religion, two things that put them at odds with the Ecclersiarchy and the Adeptas Sororitas (as seen in the two novels I mentioned).

However, what puzzles me is that they refer to the Emperor with the title "Allfather", which is clearly inspired by the title Odin had in norse mythology. So, if they do not see the Emperor as a god, why do they use this term ? Or is it a way of saying he's the father of all the Space marines throught the Primarchs gene-seed ?

Just a bit of lore I find weird.

Honestly, it's just gw sprinkling Norse myth words into their background information tying them to their Norse theme. Freki, gheri, morkhai, Ragnar(ok), fenris...